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Old 01-17-2013, 07:59 AM   #346
robsmom
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Originally Posted by vacationer1954 View Post
We're all in this together. I'm tired of worrying about what happens if something horrible happens to someone I love and they end up poor in a country where no one cares about the poor. Reducing the difference between how much we bring in and how much we spend does help our children.
I don't worry that someone I love will be poor and no one will care, because I would care. I really want to see us go back to a time where family and friends took care of each other. I worry about the person who doesn't have a loved one. I want the social net to be there for the elderly person who never had kids or other close relatives. I want it to be there for the family that has really enormous medical bills to deal with a seriously disabled child. I worry that by spreading the help too thin, we ultimately hurt those that truly need it and have no other options.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:02 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by dsneprincess View Post
How do you know you will be able to pay for food & all that you want/need with YOUR saved money if the tax is higher? Are you not yet tired of working so other people can use your money to get by? Am I the only one tired of "the children" arguement? Why, every single time, government wants more of MY money do they claim its for "the children"? What about my children? I am working & DH is working, we would like to save/spend/school OUR children with OUR money (& donate to causes we see fit) instead of our money being thrown away by government to help "the children". More taxes & regulations don't help "the children"; it just takes away their freedoms, be they civic or financial.
And I really wonder what these Feeding America type charities do. I'm not being snarky..I don't want kids to be hungry, but I do want parents to be responsible. Don't we already have a multitude of programs in place to help children not be hungry? Between WIC, Food Stamps, free breakfast and lunch, weekend backpacks sent home with food, etc., what more can really be done? At some point we have to say to parents.."Here, we are HELPING you out, NOT supporting your children..make some good choices and take care of your own".
Anyway, after going through receiving an Inheritance IRA from my aunt, I have somewhat shifted how we save for retirement. Frankly, I found the whole IRA system to be a big mess (like any goverment thing) and the whole taxation thing is a bit shocking..I get how it all works so don't really need an education lecture, but except for the IRAs at our jobs with the 3% match, we are going with Roths and cash. I'd rather take my money OUT tax free than worry about what future taxes on IRA distributions will be. Of course, they could change all the rules in the future but I have to work with what I've got.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:20 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by dsneprincess View Post
How do you know you will be able to pay for food & all that you want/need with YOUR saved money if the tax is higher? Are you not yet tired of working so other people can use your money to get by? Am I the only one tired of "the children" arguement? Why, every single time, government wants more of MY money do they claim its for "the children"? What about my children? I am working & DH is working, we would like to save/spend/school OUR children with OUR money (& donate to causes we see fit) instead of our money being thrown away by government to help "the children". More taxes & regulations don't help "the children"; it just takes away their freedoms, be they civic or financial.
I have NO children and when I see from the town alone what is going into schools and other areas, yes it is mine and my DH's taxes dollars. But I feel that it does take a village to raise a child and although I do not benefit from any of this personally, a part of me feels it is my responsibility to pay into them. Yes it does sting having less money as that can go to a charity of my choice, church or helping family members that need it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:27 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by robsmom View Post
I really want to see us go back to a time where family and friends took care of each other.
I think that's nice when it works and when it doesn't there's this other stuff we do and that's good too.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:40 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by aclov View Post
I have NO children and when I see from the town alone what is going into schools and other areas, yes it is mine and my DH's taxes dollars. But I feel that it does take a village to raise a child and although I do not benefit from any of this personally, a part of me feels it is my responsibility to pay into them. Yes it does sting having less money as that can go to a charity of my choice, church or helping family members that need it.
I used to think this way also until I realized that good funded schools are always on the top of lists on where families want to live. This in-turn, most certainty increases the housing market value in that town. So there is a benefit to the community as a whole to have good schools..
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:46 AM   #351
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I know too many people like that too! My DH is one. Last year I had to get his company log-in so I could go online and look up his paystub to see what was going on. He just took a part time job and didn't even talk about what he was going to get paid. You have no idea how much I wish that was a joke or exaggeration.
Wow!!

I am over the top when it comes to home finances. I use quicken and pretty much have very expense and income item budgeted under the sun. I even include amounts for everyone's B-day gift even if it's only $20.

Anyway, my wife and I are salaried so we know exactly what we get in our pay and it only fluctuates a penny or two each pay period.

At the end of each month I run a report from Quicken that shows us what income came in and what we spent. We then look at it to see if there are any areas we can cut back on or if we should increase our savings.

It is great to go over the report each month because some months can be real eye opener.

Please keep in mind I am a CPA and its in my nature. lol
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:48 AM   #352
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Here's a pretty good article put out by the AARP on the means tested debate

http://www.aarp.org/content/dam/aarp...i-econ-sec.pdf
Thank you for this link. It gives more details about the means testing proposal than any other I've seen.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #353
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I don't want kids to be hungry, but I do want parents to be responsible.
And it is upsetting to see families whose kids get free breakfast, lunch, medical etc. driving nice cars and having the newest electronic gadgets. My friend was upset in line the other day at the grocery store when the young women in front of her asked if she'd pick up her card she dropped (food stamp access) since she just had a manicure and didn't want to mess up her nails. My friend said "I've never had a manicure in my life but I buy my own groceries!"
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:21 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by robsmom View Post
I don't worry that someone I love will be poor and no one will care, because I would care. I really want to see us go back to a time where family and friends took care of each other. I worry about the person who doesn't have a loved one. I want the social net to be there for the elderly person who never had kids or other close relatives. I want it to be there for the family that has really enormous medical bills to deal with a seriously disabled child. I worry that by spreading the help too thin, we ultimately hurt those that truly need it and have no other options.
There needs to be more accountability of the people who take advantage of social programs. I say that as someone who HAS taken advantage of them. I was a poor, young mother (not teen, but young) and even working full time and doing everything I could, there was simply no way to dig myself out of poverty alone. The cost of daycare alone was more than my entire paycheck. Literally. It's impossible to consider paying for health insurance or starting a retirement account when the lights are about to be turned off. It's amazing how many people think that poor = lazy. Now that I have a "good job," I can still look back and say that I don't work nearly as hard now as I did then. Not.even.CLOSE!

Sure, people can say, "Well, you should've thought about that before you had kids you couldn't afford." To that, I say, "Congratulations to you for being so perfect!" Not to mention, that attitude is about as productive as preaching abstinence to a pregnant teen or safe sex to an AIDS patient. Too late!

THANK GOODNESS those "safety nets" were there or I'd probably die working as a waitress. Really, anyone who wants to go to college and better themselves has the opportunity. The government will pay your tuition, pay your rent if need be, pay your daycare bill, etc. Right or wrong....they are willing to do it if you are.

I think people should be required to attend college (for those that are able) if they're going to take advantage of social programs. As of now, there are no requirements for someone who receives section 8 housing, food stamps, etc. They can lay on the couch for however long they want to with no consequence. It's a shame. I was humiliated to have to ask for help, but I would've been even more humiliated to know the help was available, being abused all over the country, and I wasn't taking advantage of it as someone who could make a difference.

I'm proud to be a liberal, but the system as we know it is completely out of hand. If someone is going to pay your rent, buy your food, pay your daycare tab, and offer a free education then I think you owe it to the taxpayers (and yourself) to put that "free money" to good use instead of laying on the couch. Unfortunately, as long as we're willing to hand it over without asking anything in return, we'll continue to go further in debt and never see a return on all these "investments" we're making.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:30 AM   #355
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Well, you should've thought about that before you had kids you couldn't afford." To that, I say, "Congratulations to you for being so perfect!
One time is a mistake but we are talking young women who have three or four kids when they can't afford one! And young "baby daddies" who have kids to three or four different women! And why not, if "the Village" is paying to raise and support them.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:33 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsneprincess View Post
How do you know you will be able to pay for food & all that you want/need with YOUR saved money if the tax is higher? Are you not yet tired of working so other people can use your money to get by? Am I the only one tired of "the children" arguement? Why, every single time, government wants more of MY money do they claim its for "the children"? What about my children? I am working & DH is working, we would like to save/spend/school OUR children with OUR money (& donate to causes we see fit) instead of our money being thrown away by government to help "the children". More taxes & regulations don't help "the children"; it just takes away their freedoms, be they civic or financial.
I feel ya! The government has to do it for us. We are to incompetent.... Its part of the whole redistributing thing. You work and have to support you and the family as well as acouple more. The Gov. could save buttloads of $$$ if the entitlements were not so generous to those who are capable of working....
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:36 AM   #357
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One time is a mistake but we are talking young women who have three or four kids when they can't afford one! And young "baby daddies" who have kids to three or four different women! And why not, if "the Village" is paying to raise and support them.


Yeah, there's no excuse for that. In my case, I was poor and in the same situation financially as I would've been without having a child. Fortunately for me, but unfortunately in the grand scheme of things...having a child made it easier for me to access funds for college.

That's why it's ridiculous that women who are handed a free pass to get an education don't use it. There's no excuse not to. So many women use the "I have a baby (or babies)" excuse to NOT go to college. Really, there's no better REASON to go to college than having a child and being single.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:55 AM   #358
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I really want to see us go back to a time where family and friends took care of each other.
http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/thumbsup2.gif

We give a lot of money to charity, but I want to make the choice which charity to give to so I can check them out and see if they are legit - not have my tax money go to people who take advantage of the system (we all know government does NOT do a good job of weeding out the freeloaders).
And we give a lot via our church where we have people on committees to meet the families and be able to help the ones who are truly needy.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:17 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by nunzia View Post
And I really wonder what these Feeding America type charities do. I'm not being snarky..I don't want kids to be hungry, but I do want parents to be responsible. Don't we already have a multitude of programs in place to help children not be hungry? Between WIC, Food Stamps, free breakfast and lunch, weekend backpacks sent home with food, etc., what more can really be done? At some point we have to say to parents.."Here, we are HELPING you out, NOT supporting your children..make some good choices and take care of your own".
Anyway, after going through receiving an Inheritance IRA from my aunt, I have somewhat shifted how we save for retirement. Frankly, I found the whole IRA system to be a big mess (like any goverment thing) and the whole taxation thing is a bit shocking..I get how it all works so don't really need an education lecture, but except for the IRAs at our jobs with the 3% match, we are going with Roths and cash. I'd rather take my money OUT tax free than worry about what future taxes on IRA distributions will be. Of course, they could change all the rules in the future but I have to work with what I've got.
Good points....
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:22 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by aclov View Post
I have NO children and when I see from the town alone what is going into schools and other areas, yes it is mine and my DH's taxes dollars. But I feel that it does take a village to raise a child and although I do not benefit from any of this personally, a part of me feels it is my responsibility to pay into them. Yes it does sting having less money as that can go to a charity of my choice, church or helping family members that need it.
If you ever attended a public school in your lifetime you certainly did benefit from it personally. If you ever need a doctor, a lawyer, or any kind of educated service personnel then yes you have benefited personally.
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09 ASMu 1st Visit! Grandma came too! Free dining 2010 POR 2nd Visit! Grandma is along for the ride! Free dining! 03/05-09/2012 POLY here we come!! We love Disney and Grandma does too! No dining plan and we loved it! DoubleTree DTD: 3/10-3/15/13 The whole gang! Best Trip yet! First Cruise: 1/6-1/10/14 Disney Magic. 2nd Cruise: 1/9-1/15/15 Disney Wonder.
Me: Heather DH: DS #1 (11/04) DS #2 (2/09) DD (08/11)
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