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Old 01-15-2013, 11:50 AM   #271
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Its sad that it takes a disboard thread to wake people up to what's really going on
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:16 PM   #272
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Let me ask, did the extra 2% stimulate the economy? Seems to he most people either saved it or depending on how close to the edge you are used the increase to survive


I guess it is better to send it to DC than to have people pay down their personal debt (lower their payments, creating extra money to spend in the long run) or use the money to survive.

DC manages money much better than any of us ever could.

My bad.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:22 PM   #273
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I guess it is better to send it to DC than to have people pay down their personal debt (lower their payments, creating extra money to spend in the long run) or use the money to survive.

DC manages money much better than any of us ever could.

My bad.
In this instance ya I think it is. I mean there are people who can't save for retirment while they're working, what is going to happen to all these people when they can't work? I know everyone thinks they will work for ever. Well I got news for ya, most companies get rid of their older workers cause they cost them too much money, either in health benefits or just salaries. Now what? People HAVE to find a way to save. You either cut out or bring in more, those are your only two choices. Yet most make no move to either. What will happen to us a society? I don't think it will be pretty.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:27 PM   #274
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In this instance ya I think it is. I mean there are people who can't save for retirment while they're working, what is going to happen to all these people when they can't work? I know everyone thinks they will work for ever. Well I got news for ya, most companies get rid of their older workers cause they cost them too much money, either in health benefits or just salaries. Now what? People HAVE to find a way to save. You either cut out or bring in more, those are your only two choices. Yet most make no move to either. What will happen to us a society? I don't think it will be pretty.
So the answer is for the government to handle this for everyone because some people can't grow up, act like adults and handle their finances responsibly? Hello Nanny State!
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:44 PM   #275
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So the answer is for the government to handle this for everyone because some people can't grow up, act like adults and handle their finances responsibly? Hello Nanny State!
I don't think we should let the government manage our retirement funds -- they suck at money management more than most people.

Let's just put Warren Buffet or somebody in charge of saving us from ourselves, he at least appears competent.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:46 PM   #276
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So the answer is for the government to handle this for everyone because some people can't grow up, act like adults and handle their finances responsibly? Hello Nanny State!
it's not an either or proposititon. Nanny state or make believe world.

Yes people should be responsible, grow up, yada yada yada. How's that working?

We can scream all we want about what people wouldna, shoulda, coulda and all that will get you is a sore throat (as my dad use to say).

The fact is people ARE NOT responsible and when they get old they do not magically disappear and cost us nothing.

The fact is also that senior citizens are a powerful group and like it or not so far they've done a pretty good job of keeping their social security and medicaid benefits. Now whether you like it or not, whether you think that makes us entitled or nanny state really doesn't matter cause it's not going to really change in the near future. Believe me, I am fully funded for my retirement and I plan on collecting every single dime from social security. with health care insurance the minute I turn 65 I am applying for medicaid and I vote along those issues. I worked for them

Now throw in the fact that we are living longer, many are outliving what meager savings they have managed to save, and the population is growing older. We don't have much of a choice. we will be taking care of these folks whether we like it or not.

look over the last two years people did not all of a sudden have some great big epiphany due to getting the extra 2%. as of 2011, the last time they had various surveys only about 25% of working americans have gotten around to saving for their retirement and if the majority of people here are an indication, they spent the 2% knowing it would not last long (doesn't sound so responsible to me)

Now they are a myrid of reasons for that, things that definitely make it difficult to save but it took a total break down in the economy to makes folks stop charging.

And you're trying to sell the the line that if they didn't have to pay this extra 2% they all of a sudden would start spending/saving within their means.

I know I sound harsh but I think the "everyone should be responsible" is just code speak for "it's not my problem" when it very much is everyone's problem.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:50 PM   #277
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So the answer is for the government to handle this for everyone because some people can't grow up, act like adults and handle their finances responsibly? Hello Nanny State!
What's a better solution for people who can't do this for themselves? What happens to them then? What kind of a society do we want? I don't like taking care of people, I'm more of teach a man to fish gal, but I don't want civil unrest. I don't have any answers, its complicated.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #278
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it's not an either or proposititon. Nanny state or make believe world.

Yes people should be responsible, grow up, yada yada yada. How's that working?

We can scream all we want about what people wouldna, shoulda, coulda and all that will get you is a sore throat (as my dad use to say).

The fact is people ARE NOT responsible and when they get old they do not magically disappear and cost us nothing.

The fact is also that senior citizens are a powerful group and like it or not so far they've done a pretty good job of keeping their social security and medicaid benefits. Now whether you like it or not, whether you think that makes us entitled or nanny state really doesn't matter cause it's not going to really change in the near future. Believe me, I am fully funded for my retirement and I plan on collecting every single dime from social security. with health care insurance the minute I turn 65 I am applying for medicaid and I vote along those issues. I worked for them

Now throw in the fact that we are living longer, many are outliving what meager savings they have managed to save, and the population is growing older. We don't have much of a choice. we will be taking care of these folks whether we like it or not.

look over the last two years people did not all of a sudden have some great big epiphany due to getting the extra 2%. as of 2011, the last time they had various surveys only about 25% of working americans have gotten around to saving for their retirement and if the majority of people here are an indication, they spent the 2% knowing it would not last long (doesn't sound so responsible to me)

Now they are a myrid of reasons for that, things that definitely make it difficult to save but it took a total break down in the economy to makes folks stop charging.

And you're trying to sell the the line that if they didn't have to pay this extra 2% they all of a sudden would start spending/saving within their means.

I know I sound harsh but I think the "everyone should be responsible" is just code speak for "it's not my problem" when it very much is everyone's problem.

I hate the entitlement mentality and how much DC spends but this tax holiday was a huge mistake. All we did was borrow more money so was could give a 2% back to spend.

I hear people say, "I fully fund my retirement" or "I fully fund my 401K" all the time. I wonder what his really means. I am saving what I think I need to to have enough for my retirement but I will not know if I got it right until I run out of money or I die.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #279
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Its crazy that people think the government is saving money for you to retire.... It doesnt matter if the SS tax is 6.2% or 50% of our income we will more than likely never see it. They will keep moving the retirement age up so noone can get. They know what they are doing. I can and do a better job saving money than the government has or ever will.
If people are not personally saving then they will be screwed in the end. You can not rely on the government to do it for you. Everything will be gone! Wake up people!!!
Yes, this is everyones problem but there is not a thing anyone of us can do about it. I did my part and voted accordingly but didnt get me very far.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:47 PM   #280
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I hate the entitlement mentality and how much DC spends but this tax holiday was a huge mistake. All we did was borrow more money so was could give a 2% back to spend.

I hear people say, "I fully fund my retirement" or "I fully fund my 401K" all the time. I wonder what his really means. I am saving what I think I need to to have enough for my retirement but I will not know if I got it right until I run out of money or I die.
Fully agree and don't know if you remember but there were a few folks that said that this tax holiday was a huge mistake because of what we see today. You should have seen the flames. whew. every thing from I need my money to the I can do a better job than the government.

One of my greatest regrets is that I started saving late in the game. dh and I really didn't start saving well into our thirties, one of the reasons was that probably a bit "entitlement" thinking. When we grew up and started working you worked for a company got a pension, that along with some savings and social security got you through.
Now you're right it's hard to see the end game.
You mentioned it before, even with a company funded retirement plan there are plenty of issues that can derail me. will it keep place with inflation? what are my tax implications? what if my health fails? when I first started working I think 77 was the average life span of women, now we've creep up a little but we also have expensive medical solutions keeping us alive.

My concern is that we seem to be dug into these trenches. "government will help me" and "tough cookies to you if you didn't save".
Neither reasoning is going to provide a solution.

Personally I don't think we have an option to social security. we have no option but to fund it. senior citizen population grew about 5% in a little over 8 years. we have an entire generation of folks around my age (mid 50's) that will depend on some type of assistance to survive. Now look at the age group 40's and they are less prepared to weather senior hood. So for the next 40 years (if those 40 some things average 80 years of life) we are going to have a boat load of folks who will definitely require help. Not sure how those in their 30's stand.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:59 PM   #281
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Looking at our paychecks for 2013... between my husband and I we are getting $400 less per check so $800 less per month. That is HUGE! I actually dropped my health coverage and went onto my husbands thinking I would be getting an extra $200/month starting in Jan. Food prices keep going up, bills keep going up and paychecks get smaller and smaller.
Obviously, that is not due to the end of the SS tax holiday.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #282
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Continue to get better????? LMAO! Seriously? What Kool Aid are you drinking?
Is a smaller deficit not better than a bigger one? I said that the current deficit is smaller than it has been in years past and that is a good thing, is it not.? I hope it continues to get better, do you not hope the same?
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:35 PM   #283
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Is a smaller deficit not better than a bigger one? I said that the current deficit is smaller than it has been in years past and that is a good thing, is it not.? I hope it continues to get better, do you not hope the same?
Where do you get ur numbers from?? This is laughable!
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:35 PM   #284
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Is a smaller deficit not better than a bigger one? I said that the current deficit is smaller than it has been in years past and that is a good thing, is it not.? I hope it continues to get better, do you not hope the same?
If we were doing such a good job then why is the debt ceiling looking again?

This is like being happy that the water is dripping a little slower and now I will not drown for another 3 seconds.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #285
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Where do you get ur numbers from?? This is laughable!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/13/bu...lion.html?_r=0

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...f-cbo-estimate

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_deficit

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview
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