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Old 01-05-2013, 02:36 PM   #61
PrincessDadx2
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Originally Posted by sweetdana View Post
if your realtor is telling you, you will lose your EMD, they are full of crap. just have your loan officer deny you.. you will get your deposit back. in 99.9% of states.
Don't know about your State, but unless you have a financing contingency in the contract that has not been released then you WILL lose your deposit. It is also fraud to have a loan officer make false claims to avoid a valid contract, but you knew that It would be hard to prove of course, but what goes around comes around.

Can't believe people continue to disparage the seller and their agent. The buyer admits that the contract included appliances and other fixtures, but does not include furniture. So how is an agent, who is legally obligated to work in the best interst of the seller, supposed to go back and say Hey we like your signed offer, but I really think the seller should give you the furniture too in addition to the appliances. Why don't you change the contract before we sign. That would be a violation of their fiduciary responsibility to the seller.

Bottom line is don't hire part time, inexperienced, family friends, etc. to handle multiple tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars transactions. $200 to review the contract with a competent attorney working for you would have saved all the grief. Someone who knows what they are doing would have asked the question.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:55 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by nugov2 View Post
This is actually illegal. You cannot change out anything that would come with the house or in the contract to come with the house to something cheaper. If the listing said includes appliances you cannot go buy generic low end appliances and take your sub zero fridge that was shown to the buyer. When they negotiate for appliances it is the ones in the house not ones you go buy unless that is specifically said in the contract you will be providing different ones. No bait and switching is allowed. Just like you cannot take out light fixtures after the contract is signed right before you move and put in cheap ones. Those buyers could have went after those sellers. If they had consulted their real estate attorney they would have told them that. They just didn't know enough to do so and that is what those sellers hoped for.

This is a great point.

This is also exactly the reason that we swapped out anything we really wanted before we listed the house. For example, we had a very unique one of a kind light fixture. Rather than fight over it as an 'exclusion', we swapped it out prior to listing the house and put it in storage. The buyer got what they saw without it turning into a big issue...
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by bearloch View Post
Sorry yes it is listed in the listing 2 seperate times that the house comes furnished!! and I looked it up on several times and found it stated furnished in all the listings and the open house flyer!
Well that stinks!

I am not a lawyer so anything I say here is based on my thoughts about how to help you.

Maybe have your agent tell theirs that you are talking to a lawyer to sue them if they persist in the estate sale? They may back off of the sale of the furniture? But be sure you have your p's and qs lined up before you do that!

If you do sue, you should win any suit you bring against them, if you have documents signed by them and you that show the house was to be furnished and an itemized list of furnishings. If all you have is the listing, you are probably out of luck, but your lawyer will give you a proper assessment of your chances.

If you and your lawyer believe your chances are good and you do end up suing, then they may have to pay all your court costs in addition to the value of the furnishings that were sold. Should be easy, all you need is the records from the business they used for the estate sale. If it was more of a yard sale then I don't know how the courts determine the appropriate amount, but I am sure there is some formula that would be used.

Edited to add: another thought is they may have accepted your offer (possibly a lower offer?) because your offer/bid did not include the furniture and they thought they could make up the difference by selling it themselves? In this case they are not the enemy, they are just doing what they have the right to do.

Good luck.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Belle0101 View Post


As an example, when our neighbors sold their home the contract listed the appliances that were included (i.e., fridge, stove/oven, dishwasher). What wasn't listed was a specific description of the appliances.

The morning of closing, but before the final walk through, the sellers moved out the original fridge. A really nice high end one. They moved in what we would call a garage fridge - a plain, older model that sits in the garage and stores extra soda, beer, any surplus from the kitchen fridge.

.
That is appalling! I learned a good lesson from this post, I will have the brand and serial number for appliances included in the contract if I purchase another home in the future!
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #65
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Apparently not, based on the OP's post.




Did you read my other posts? I stated that it was perfectly legal for the sellers to do what they're doing. I also said that this very well may be an expensive lesson for the buyer. However, the sellers' agent knew that the buyers expected the furniture to be there (can't speak for the sellers because they were most likely not there during the viewings).

As I said earlier, if the seller really didn't know the OP expected everything with their offer on the house and there was a misunderstanding, they shouldn't mind letting them have it considering they got top dollar for the house. Do they HAVE to do it, most certainly not. The contract is the only thing binding. It still doesn't make it right though.
I don't know that the sellers got "top dollar" for their house. OP said it was the top of her budget-that's different than the sellers getting top dollar. Unless I missed where that was said.
Did OP ever say whether the agent was working for her or the seller?
This whole thing is unfamiliar to me. Where I live every real estate transaction has lawyers on both sides. I know that is not the case everywhere though.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:12 PM   #66
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That is appalling! I learned a good lesson from this post, I will have the brand and serial number for appliances included in the contract if I purchase another home in the future!
You have a good point in learning from this thread. Maybe someone with experience has other advice on selling/buying to give to the group?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:12 PM   #67
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In 2001 we bought a house with surround sound speakers mounted in the vaulted ceiling. They were listed in the contract as part of the deal. Sure enough, we move in and not only did they take the speakers but also the wires! We had our agent write their agent that they violated the contract. They ended up paying us $500 for replacement value of the wires and speakers. The pain was having the put them back in the vaulted ceiling where there wasn't much room. When we moved out, we put in the contract that we took the speakers but left the wires. Worked well that time.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:21 PM   #68
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When we purchased our house the seller stated that the washer/dryer were to stay, they left the exact set that we saw. They were about 20 years old, we used them for a few months and then bought our own but at least we had the old ones in the meantime, it made it easier for us to wait for a good sale on a new set.
I'm sorry OP, but if it isn't in your contract there really isn't anything you can do about it at this point.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:38 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by sweetdana View Post
If this is a deal breaker.. and you have not closed... break the deal.. end of story.. If it is worth the price without furnishings.. go for it. Your realtor knew what the scoop was, and most realtors only care about getting the deal closed and know if things change later, buyers are usually sold on the home in question.. and will close no matter what. It is sad but buying a home is emotional (as well as financial).

If you have not closed, you can have your loan officer assist you with a denial.. It is pretty easy to get denied, your realtor will not tell you that either, and imply an EMD is done if you pull the deal.. but the truth is denials happen every day .. even the day before closing. Tell your processor, you are losing your job in a week or 2, or your short funds to clos, as you spent them.
in 99.999% of the time a denial on a loan program is reason to get your EMD back ... and you can start over. ( you will not likly get back any funds with the lender for an appraisal, but they will likely put a "credit" in your file if you buy a different home.. if you randomly don't lose your job. )

Most people do over buy on the homes they buy, some grow into them, some went a squeek to far, and can never catch up, and end up living pay check to pay check and hoping the furnace doesn't break in Dec. If you are questioning affording furnishings, I would consider thinking how secure any household income is, and if somthing happened what the back up incomes would be prior to over buying.. IE .. if your DH makes 50K, and lost his job would he be able to make 50K right away finding another.. or could he make 30K right away and you could pick up a job for 20K.
.. I don't know that you are over buying.. only a general statement.. I am an underwritter on loans and see it daily. I am 10000% generalizing.. not pointing a finger at you. I don't know you or your financial situation.
Glad to know you can work a "denial" if need be. I was so mad at our builder earlier this week that I was about to tell DH to go buy a motorcycle to throw off his score and debt/income ratio enough to keep us from closing.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:54 PM   #70
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Well that stinks!

I am not a lawyer so anything I say here is based on my thoughts about how to help you.
It's a really bad idea to give "legal" advice based on what you feel should be right rather than advice based on the law. The sellers would probably just laugh if presented with a threat of being sued. Also, if you have ever been involved in any type of lawsuit, you wouldn't be so quick to suggest a lawsuit as a first course of action. The only real winners are usually the attorneys. The OP and or agent made a huge mistake. An expensive lesson learned (I hope). Get everything in writing!
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:58 PM   #71
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if your realtor is telling you, you will lose your EMD, they are full of crap. just have your loan officer deny you.. you will get your deposit back. in 99.9% of states.
We have purchased multiple homes, and ^this^ is what our loan officer has always told us as well. And just for the record, we've never broken a contract.

I just figured all mortgage contracts were contingent upon financing...guess I was wrong. I know here, if you get denied by your loan officer (example; making a major car purchase during the closing process (big no-no) which fusses up your credit score/income:debt ratio), the contract is null and void.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:58 AM   #72
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I just figured all mortgage contracts were contingent upon financing...guess I was wrong. I know here, if you get denied by your loan officer (example; making a major car purchase during the closing process (big no-no) which fusses up your credit score/income:debt ratio), the contract is null and void.
We bought a car the week before we bought our house and it didn't do anything to our credit. The loan went through seamlessly. Maybe the reason is that we paid cash for the new car, though so it didn't go against our ratio.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:10 AM   #73
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Don't know about your State, but unless you have a financing contingency in the contract that has not been released then you WILL lose your deposit.
Yes, this. And if OP was set to close mid-month, then I'm assuming the mortgage commitment has already been issued and that contingency released.

The mortgage company will verify your credit/employment a few days prior to closing. Depending on your debt to income ratio, you could open a credit card or make a large purchase right before closing, but honestly that is playing with fire. Not only will you lose the house (which is sounds like you still want, furniture or not) but it may affect your ability to purchase in the future. You would get your $8k deposit back, but it that worth it?

OP - you never answered the question about your agent... Do you have your own Buyer's Agent or are you using the Listing Agent (who would also be representing the seller?)

If you are using the Listing Agent, you may have a case with an attorney as that agent would have been a disclosed dual agent and had a fiduciary responsibility to both Buyer and Seller and must work in their best interest. On your side, he failed and you would have a valid case.

If you are using your own Buyer's Agent, contact his broker right away regarding his error. Your business agreement is with the broker; see if they will do anything to help you given one of their agents made such a huge mistake.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:09 PM   #74
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agent is working for us but never again!! we are going ahead with the deal im just gonna have to be creative about getting furniture in the house later!

Again thanks for all the Ideas and suggestions we learned a lesson here!!
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:10 PM   #75
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I would still pursue against your own agent. He can offer part of his commission to you as part of the close...if you made it clear you wanted the furniture and he didn't put it in the contract, he did not meet his responsibilities...
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