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Old 01-20-2013, 11:09 AM   #31
lockedoutlogic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merbean09 View Post
I find something very wrong with this sentence.
LOTR has only been a classic novel for twice the amount of time that Star Wars has been a movie.

And if Disney has some tricks up their sleeves, I suggest they pull them out now. They are going downhill and fast.
Its about money...

Star Wars is unparalleled for the amount of money it made - so quickly - based on one crazy guy's idea, a collection of ragtag techno geeks, and a 10 million dollar budget given very begrudgingly...

Of Course the Tolkien stories have been around alot longer and you can certainly are better developed stories...
But that's not what we're looking at.

In cash and effect on pop culture - nothing even comes close to Star Wars.

The lord of the rings movies don't exist without special effects - the special effects don't exist without ILM - ILM created by star wars...

There's too strong of a case to be made that star wars is a root cause of all the cool things we see now on tv and the screen.

and for the record:
Disney "going downhill and fast" can't be farther from the truth. Their attendance and revenues continue to climb - no matter what universal, sea world, or the the army corp of engineers builds in town...they are the dominate. The coke to the pepsi, the UPS to the fedex, the walmart to the target (all of those comparisons are about an 80/20 market split - though nobody tends to look at them as such)

That is the facts of the case...we debate them all the time on this board - but in the end they still are the facts.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:15 AM   #32
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And for the record:

Build On, Universal.

I love the fact that Comcast is pouring some of the money they've been ripping off of me for years into building expensive, cool, "in your face, rat", high capacity things over on Kirkman...while disney is "pooring" their money into DVC.

I really do.
No...i don't think they are anywhere in the ballpark to actually steal attendance from WDW - as always, Disney will gain off it (we've been over this a google times)...but the fact that they are really throwing some care into securing the parks longterm and creating a legitimate presence is great for me...as a Disney guy.

No pennies will be spent out of Burbank that they don't want....but somewhere in the Dwarf Building and in Imagineering...there are meetings, ideas, and budgets being floated with a little more pressure on them...and i'm sure in the end we'll see new things at LBV sooner than we might have otherwise.

lord of the Rings?
By all means - throw it in. Can't do anything but help the consumer.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimilady View Post
Carsland won't entice the world of geekdom. Betwen LOTR and Harry Potter, man, that would severely cut down the amount of time we spend at Disney as the girls get older. My first ever trip to Orlando was to Universal to see the Wizarding World, not Disneyworld. I doubt any teen or adult is going to say "Yay, Carsland!" Stars Wars however, is a different story.....

ITA - my girls are soooo geeked about LOTR they want me to take them to NZ! I don't have the dough for that but I would definitely spend some serious $$ to do it at Universal!
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:01 PM   #34
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Just a reminder:

the so called "geek" element is not what business plans around. In fact, quite the opposite. They know its a relatively small number and they will put their money toward specific brands in any form.
The ultimate in lemmings...but not exactly the masses that really have the dough
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Just a reminder:

the so called "geek" element is not what business plans around. In fact, quite the opposite. They know its a relatively small number and they will put their money toward specific brands in any form.
The ultimate in lemmings...but not exactly the masses that really have the dough
You are correct about the business plans, except for Comic-Con. Those people that organize Comic-Con start their meetings off like "ok, I want every barnhouse, doghouse, inhouse searched until you have found the last geek and then I want to know if they want the former cast of Chuck this year!" Full disclosure: I go every year... and no, no more Chuck
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:54 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Just a reminder:

the so called "geek" element is not what business plans around. In fact, quite the opposite. They know its a relatively small number and they will put their money toward specific brands in any form.
The ultimate in lemmings...but not exactly the masses that really have the dough
Geekdom brought TRON: Legacy to be produced after the preview was unexpectedly played at ComicCon
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFL

Geekdom brought TRON: Legacy to be produced after the preview was unexpectedly played at ComicCon
And it made 8 bucks...

I think perhaps that may count as a "lesson learned"

And for the record...Disney seems MORE inclined to service the geek...probably because they have money to burn and crave merchandising potential like an addict...

BUT...the target audience is the 16 year olds that would spend $12 bucks on paint drying (with special effects...or $16.50 on Paint Drying 3D) and then forget what they watched 30 seconds after the credits roll, come back next week and do the same thing over again.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

It's not people who dress up like Klingons or Leia Slave Girls.

That's not "new" news
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:26 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
And it made 8 bucks...

I think perhaps that may count as a "lesson learned"

And for the record...Disney seems MORE inclined to service the geek...probably because they have money to burn and crave merchandising potential like an addict...

BUT...the target audience is the 16 year olds that would spend $12 bucks on paint drying (with special effects...or $16.50 on Paint Drying 3D) and then forget what they watched 30 seconds after the credits roll, come back next week and do the same thing over again.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

It's not people who dress up like Klingons or Leia Slave Girls.

That's not "new" news
Usually we agree, a lot...and I even agree with the point you're making about catering to "the geek" above the mass market/date market, but....just not in terms of Trons number.

Just to clarify:

Tron:Legacy's domestic gross was about 175 million. It's foreign BO was was about 228 million.

I'm not sure I'd call 400 million world-wide "8 bucks"....even on a production budget of a 170 million. It's a modest return (probably 100 million-ish in profit) on the box office...more on the home release...but certainly not too shabby. Given the way the production budget went (over runs on R&D and tech)...I actually think that was close to a best case scenario for Disney (worst case being something like John Carter).

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=tron2.htm

It didn't have a great opening weekend, I'll grant you that. But it ended up doing fairly well

Looks like a sequel has been greenlit...but we'll see about actual production.

Tron:Uprising on DisneyXD opened to pretty good ratings...and now does horribly (to the point that new eps have been moved to Monday at midnight).
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilferk

Usually we agree, a lot...and I even agree with the point you're making about catering to "the geek" above the mass market/date market, but....just not in terms of Trons number.

Just to clarify:

Tron:Legacy's domestic gross was about 175 million. It's foreign BO was was about 228 million.

I'm not sure I'd call 400 million world-wide "8 bucks"....even on a production budget of a 170 million. It's a modest return (probably 100 million-ish in profit) on the box office...more on the home release...but certainly not too shabby. Given the way the production budget went (over runs on R&D and tech)...I actually think that was a best case scenario for Disney (worst case being something like John Carter).

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=tron2.htm

It didn't have a great opening weekend, I'll grant you that. But it ended up doing fairly well

Looks like a sequel has been greenlit...but we'll see about actual production.

Tron:Uprising on DisneyXD opened to pretty good ratings...and now does horribly (to the point that new eps have been moved to Monday at midnight).
Obviously that was a little tongue in cheek...

I don't think you've sold me on Tron being evidence of the "power of the geek"

Remember that Tron was "their" material...and boy don't they love to roll out their old toys?

And a 175/ 400 gross isn't that great - let's be realistic about this.
It was big in 1989...now it's pretty average if not even below. What was their budget - -about 300? Plus promotional and marketing?

It was probably marginal/ break even.
And I don't recall lines at walmart waiting for the blu ray.

Come on, you're playing devils advocate here and you know it.

The Comic Con crowd is a loyal if small segment and even they admit they don't move the bar much...like hockey fans (anyone catch those Pens over the weekend? Woo Hoo!!)

Movies are about legs and the teen and 18-49 demographic...not exactly a Hollywood trade secret
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Obviously that was a little tongue in cheek...

I don't think you've sold me on Tron being evidence of the "power of the geek"

Remember that Tron was "their" material...and boy don't they love to roll out their old toys?

And a 175/ 400 gross isn't that great - let's be realistic about this.
It was big in 1989...now it's pretty average if not even below. What was their budget - -about 300? Plus promotional and marketing?

It was probably marginal/ break even.
And I don't recall lines at walmart waiting for the blu ray.

Come on, you're playing devils advocate here and you know it.

The Comic Con crowd is a loyal if small segment and even they admit they don't move the bar much...like hockey fans (anyone catch those Pens over the weekend? Woo Hoo!!)

Movies are about legs and the teen and 18-49 demographic...not exactly a Hollywood trade secret
To be clear:

I'm not trying to make any point in the discussion. I agree (as my original post says) largely with YOUR point about not catering to the geek. And I don't think Tron was evidence of "the power of the geek", either.

My only point is that Tron did a bit better than 8 bucks (even considering hyperbole). Using the 1.5 rule of thumb (total costs, including marketing, etc, usually come in around 1.5 times of production costs), total costs probably came in around 267 million. That's 133 million in profit. A modest (but not spectacular) success and only on the BO. While Tron might not have set the world on fire in Blu-Ray and DVD (the sales figures I can find peg it around 1.5 million units, and about 30 million in sales for DVD in the US...can't find Blu-Ray, which is usually separate), it still pads the profit margin a bit. Say they've made about 145 million in profit, in sum total, including theatrical release, home release, streaming, etc worldwide. That's not too shabby, and a bit more than 8 bucks.

That is and was the entirety of my contribution. I don't mean to imply, express, or impart anything else.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:40 PM   #41
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LOTR is way bigger than Avatar. Yes, Avatar pulled ina lot of money when it was new, but as a franchise I am friends with geeks galore and it's like meh. It's not a draw. LOTR coupled with HP though.... It will be a geek's Mecca. Myself and my husband included.
I agree! I have yet to make it to Universal but have been tempted since they opened Harry Potter. I always felt as if I would be "cheating" on Disney but if they added LOTR, I would be there in New York second! My own personal opinion, I could care less about Avatarland. You couldn't hold me back from LOTR. Oh, the possibilities!
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