Rumor: No Free Dining at Values this fall...

[Patience]

We were thinking of doing a trip in late September/early October and staying at either AOA in a little mermaid room or POR. Without either free dining (we would upgrade to TS at AOA) or a good room only code, we will probably look at Bonnet Creek instead.

[Marionnette]

Originally Posted by Halbleib1

I think it is too early to say one way or the other. As I remember a couple years back them saying they were not going to offer any discounts like we had become use to getting. A few months later they rolled out free dining for the rest of the year and into the next one. If what I saw the two weeks we were there in Dec is any indication they are going to have to offer some sort of discount because it was no where near as busy as other years we had travelled during the same time.. The last day to book free dining for Dec I checked the website and they still had many room choices left for our dates.. Also if I recall correctly free dining was offered for the values already as a bounceback offer.. Also if the same economist that predicted the last recession are right we are going to be right back in what could be an even worst one this year.

Originally Posted by tyniknate

Don't believe it for one minute. Doesn't matter though....I have one starting college in the fall and Disney is no longer in my budget. Need to get him and the next one and the next one through school with the least amount of debt possible.

I'm usually one to be skeptical of rumors as well. And if it weren't coming from Danny25, I wouldn't put much faith it this one. But he's a pretty reliable source when it comes to pending discounts. Since British posters on other boards are already corroborating that their fall discounts are not including free dining at value resorts (and smaller room discounts), I would not be surprised to see that this rumor turns out to be true.

[Jenny3]

It won't affect us. We rented DVC points last year and stayed in a villa - that's the way I'm going from here on out! Total bliss.

We did purchase the DDP on our last trip; for us it was worth the expense. If they still offer it for purchase, I'll do it again.

[mymeme]

No free dining at value resorts Will affect our family. It was going to be real tight going back in 2013 anyway. Without it we probably will not get to go. Still going to hope !!!!

[North of Mouse]

Originally Posted by Marionnette

...and the free dining at the mods and deluxes will be the QSDP.

That's the latest on the Codes and Rates subforum of the Resorts Board. FWIW, Danny25 is usually right on the money with his advance info.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3039016

So, how will this affect your vacation plans for next fall? Will you still go to Disney if there is no free dining at the Values? Is it worth it to you to pay rack rates at a moderate or deluxe resort if the free dining plan is just the QSDP?

For me, it makes no difference and in fact, it may make me more likely to travel to Disney in the fall if there are fewer "free diners" crowding the TS restaurants. I haven't thought that the dining plans were any kind of value since they did away with the gratuity and appetizers. Free DDP for my family of 5 never made up for paying rack rate at a deluxe. So the QSDP makes it even less appealing now that the kids are grown.

I'm just interested in hearing what other Dis-ers think.

I really hope that this rumor is true. Maybe the TS restaurants will get back to *normal* (whatever that will be now). The free DDP has never been free, and would never work for us anyway. We don't drink sodas, and never eat desserts at meal time, so we always spend about half of what a dining plan would cost us (and that's eating when & where we want).

For the few that will now book offsite (if this rumor is true) there are thousands more that will still stay onsite no matter, so will be no loss to Disney. Also, I would think the restaurants will still be just as booked.

[Sheaboys]

We had used the Free Dining Plan in 2005, when tax and tip were included, and we only had 3 kids that were under 9. Fantastic Deal!

In August 2012, we went and did the Free Dining, but we now have 5 kids and 3 are over 9, and 2 under 9. I tried every scenario about room discounts (we needed 2) or paying Rack and getting Free Dining. We eat a sit down every night, we enjoy it, gives us a chance to relax and get served. So Free Dining for us, is absolutely totally worth it.

[jcemom]

We haven't used the DDP ("free" or paid for) the past few trips anyway. We have found that it's less expensive to pay OOP, we don't have any restrictions as to what we order (meaning we can share several apps instead of entrees, or get an app instead of dessert, whatever), and we really don't want or need a TS meal every day. I've been loading up the first part of our trip with TS meals, because it's easier to know which park we'll be in each day. Then for the last third or so of the trip I don't schedule any so we can be a lot more flexible as to where we go and when.

[Halbleib1]

Originally Posted by Marionnette

I'm usually one to be skeptical of rumors as well. And if it weren't coming from Danny25, I wouldn't put much faith it this one. But he's a pretty reliable source when it comes to pending discounts. Since British posters on other boards are already corroborating that their fall discounts are not including free dining at value resorts (and smaller room discounts), I would not be surprised to see that this rumor turns out to be true.

Maybe so but Disney can always change their mind the closer we get to it. Danny might be hearing that now but once they see that rooms are not booking up they may find they need to offer free dining or something better. Just like before when they announced no more discounts and than turned around and offered free dining with dates well in advance of ever before. I myself would not go back without a discount at least equal to what we saved with free dining. I have found that over our 6 total trips a lot has changed and not for the better. At the same time prices are going up every year the quality of what you are receiving for that money is going down imo. The New Fantasyland is nice but is not enough to justify the price increase for this year imo.

[Halbleib1]

Originally Posted by Marionnette

You have a very valid point about people responding like Pavlov's dog to the word "free". But I also think that Free Dining has become less profitable at the Value resorts over the past few years. I don't think there's as big a profit margin at the Value level as there is at the Moderate and Deluxes, which is why they stopped offering free DDP at the Values and replaced it with just QSDP over the past couple of years. Perhaps, in an effort to keep the rack rate of the Values more affordable (not that I think they are a great value for what you get), they've shaved the profit margin too thin to be able to absorb the cost of the QSDP. I've also noticed that the room-only offers at the Values have a very low percentage off, too. The most recent ones have only been in the range of 15% off the rack rate.

They are not losing money at the values by offering free dining. The price of a room at a value is well above what you would spend outside of Disney with more amenities. Our trip home we stopped at a very nice Day's Inn Hotel and Suites and stayed in a King Suite for less than one night would cost us at a value resort even in value seaon. We had a fridge,microwave, and coffee maker. They also included breakfast the next morning. They offered waffles, sausage, biscuits and gravy, cereal, coffee, juice, toast, bagels, donuts and fruit. Also for those that wanted it a free newspaper. Also the rooms at Pop are starting to show their age despite a renovation not that long ago. Our room had a musty smell to it and didn't seem to be kept as clean as in the past. Perhaps the musty smell was from something being spilt or even from the A/C vent or filter needing cleaned. All 6 trips we have stayed at Pop and I started noticing a decline in housekeeping on our trip last Oct. My inlaws were with us and also noticed a difference compared to their past trips. This year was better overall housekeeping wise than last year though.

[Halbleib1]

Another thought- Maybe they are trying a new strategy. Maybe they are trying to fill up the Deluxe and Moderates first since they cost more before offering free dining to the values. Or perhaps they will not offer it to the values this year in the hopes that those that wanted free dining will upgrade and not want to go back to a value. Brilliant marketing if you think about it. Get people to fall in love with a moderate or deluxe so that they pay more for their future vacations.

[Halbleib1]

Originally Posted by Patience

We were thinking of doing a trip in late September/early October and staying at either AOA in a little mermaid room or POR. Without either free dining (we would upgrade to TS at AOA) or a good room only code, we will probably look at Bonnet Creek instead.

The free dining offers that came out since the fall deal did not offer free dining to the little mermaid rooms unless you were a lucky one and got a pin code. The suites were included.

[Disney Addicted]

Maybe we are in the minority, but we will never stay at a value unless we are kid-free. Double beds will not work for us. Straight to mods with queen-size beds is what we did.

[Marionnette]

Originally Posted by Halbleib1

Maybe so but Disney can always change their mind the closer we get to it. Danny might be hearing that now but once they see that rooms are not booking up they may find they need to offer free dining or something better. Just like before when they announced no more discounts and than turned around and offered free dining with dates well in advance of ever before. I myself would not go back without a discount at least equal to what we saved with free dining. I have found that over our 6 total trips a lot has changed and not for the better. At the same time prices are going up every year the quality of what you are receiving for that money is going down imo. The New Fantasyland is nice but is not enough to justify the price increase for this year imo.

I'll agree with you that the quality has declined and the Fantasyland Expansion is not enough of an incentive to bring a lot of people back. I pretty much disagree with everything else.

Disney never said that they were eliminating discounts. Bob Iger did say that they would be scaling them back. And they have. Room discounts used to be up to 45% off of the rack rate. Now the highest is around 35%. Free Dining went from DDP at all resorts to QSDP at the Values and you had to buy at least a 2-day MYW pass now instead of the 1-day ticket requirement it once was. Package deals have not been anywhere as good as they once were when kids played and ate for free or you could pay for 4 nights and get 7.

They plan these marketing promotions a year in advance. Even after 9/11 and the market crash in the Fall of 2008, they didn't do much to entice visitors. They stayed the course and weathered it out by closing whole sections of resorts and laying people off. They aren't going to look at the number of rooms they have booked for Sept. when August rolls around and say "we need to do something to fill these room, let's offer free dining at the Values!."

Originally Posted by Halbleib1

They are not losing money at the values by offering free dining. The price of a room at a value is well above what you would spend outside of Disney with more amenities. Our trip home we stopped at a very nice Day's Inn Hotel and Suites and stayed in a King Suite for less than one night would cost us at a value resort even in value seaon. We had a fridge,microwave, and coffee maker. They also included breakfast the next morning. They offered waffles, sausage, biscuits and gravy, cereal, coffee, juice, toast, bagels, donuts and fruit. Also for those that wanted it a free newspaper. Also the rooms at Pop are starting to show their age despite a renovation not that long ago. Our room had a musty smell to it and didn't seem to be kept as clean as in the past. Perhaps the musty smell was from something being spilt or even from the A/C vent or filter needing cleaned. All 6 trips we have stayed at Pop and I started noticing a decline in housekeeping on our trip last Oct. My inlaws were with us and also noticed a difference compared to their past trips. This year was better overall housekeeping wise than last year though.

Day Inn and King Suite probably don't have health plans for their part-time workers either. And they probably don't have the overhead that Disney has in maintaining its properties. Hence the higher price for a room. I'm not saying that they're not making a bigger profit per unit than those other hotels. But when the resort has to pay the restaurants for the dining plans, the average cost per room has to be enough to cover those dining plans, the resort overhead and still generate a profit or else it's not worth doing. When an AllStar room goes for $90/weekday night in Sept. and you can have up to 4 Disney "adults" in that room for that price (2 adults, 2 teens), and then offer them free food for the night as well, you're not going to see much profit.

Originally Posted by Halbleib1

Another thought- Maybe they are trying a new strategy. Maybe they are trying to fill up the Deluxe and Moderates first since they cost more before offering free dining to the values. Or perhaps they will not offer it to the values this year in the hopes that those that wanted free dining will upgrade and not want to go back to a value. Brilliant marketing if you think about it. Get people to fall in love with a moderate or deluxe so that they pay more for their future vacations.

And all of those people who booked Moderates because there wasn't Free Dining at the Values end up changing their reservations, causing more work for reservations CMs. We all know that that happens whenever new discounts come out.

Or people decide that paying the rack rate at a Moderate (almost double the price of a Value room) is not worth staying onsite and they book their accommodations elsewhere.

Not as brilliant a marketing strategy as you give yourself credit for.

[jdcthree]

A room discount is a better deal for us. Free dining just makes it harder to get the few ADRs we want, and I don't mind if they get rid of it.

[DisneyMomma81]

Hmmm...
I have a LM room booked for mid-late October and without FD *we had it at POP 10/09 - fantastic* we'll strongly consider staying off site and using YES tickets.

DS was 9 but had a mature and big appetite even then so he "was" 10 that trip, the cost to switch from a kid to adult ticket was minimal and he ate well at lots of Epcot restaurants.

ETA - my mom was with us, I brought two air mattresses *Aerobed Jr and a high school musical sleeping bag/slim air bed combo, so we all had our own bed.