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Old 12-27-2012, 05:43 PM   #16
sam_gordon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yxjames View Post
14 CFR 121.306 - Portable electronic devices.

§ 121.306
Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.
[Doc. No. FAA-1998-4954, 64 FR 1080, Jan. 7, 1999]


I believe certain airlines allow their pilots to use iPads for electronic flight bags (EFBs) for navigational purposes only. The law is the law, obey it.

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.306
Of course, no one is denying what the law is.

ETA: What you quoted must be outdated. According to that, we wouldn't be allowed to use any electronic devices at any time during the flight. We know that's not the case.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagodisneyfan View Post
I fly two times a month across various airlines and they all have this announcement. The only time I don't have to power off is when I am on a private jet - but the wifi does not work until 10,000 feet.
Private jets are classified under FAA Part 135 - charter (on-demand) operations. They are less stringent than airlines classified under FAA Part 121. 10,000 feet is known as the transition altitude in an airline pilot's world. Non essential activities relative to the safe operation of aircraft (i.e. chit chatting about what's for dinner) are prohibited at or below 10,000 feet.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by taylor3297 View Post
Do we all need to be connected every second of the day? What is the harm in a few minutes of not using an electronic device?
I'm not taking sides, but people here have asked how are they supposed to listen to their fear of flying tapes er I guess MP3's during take off and landing?
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

Agreed. Basically, if it has an on/off switch, it needs to be off.
That's how I've heard it countless times.

It really irritates my husband and brother, as they both have jobs in the electronics industry and know that it's not going to interfere with things (especially my brother, who has been actively involved in such things for about a decade now).


Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor3297 View Post
This is the theory, but I am one who doesn't want to test the theory.

On a recent flight a lady, was playing words with friends and was trying to hide it from the flight attendant. She was caught and was asked to turn off her phone and put it away.

Do we all need to be connected every second of the day? What is the harm in a few minutes of not using an electronic device?
What exactly is the difference between her looking at an electronic device (where she might interact with humans, albeit not humans right near her) and pulling out a crossword puzzle book? Very few people are going to just SIT there staring forward. They are going to bring out a book, look at SkyMall, go to sleep. they are doing something.

It's like people being annoyed with people who are on their cellphones in places deemed annoying. WHAT is the difference to someone not in my party if I'm talking to the person standing next to me, or talking to my aunt across the country? I'm interacting with people. Even if I'm texting, HOW is that any different than chatting with someone right near me? I don't understand the annoyance with electronic devices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
I should have mentioned earlier, having cell phones in "airplane" mode makes sense. Think about how a cell phone works... it transmits to nearby cell towers. As you move, you get switched to another tower (cell) seemlessly (most of the time).

Speaking of receivers and transmitters, the higher you are, the further you can receive/transmit. So how many towers do you "hit" while flying (at least climbing & descending). I had heard the reason to keep cell phones off was more from cell phone companies than it was aircraft manufacturers.
My husband was forgetful on a flight, and THOUGHT he put his phone in full airplane mode. It was not. It was an iphone 1 or 2 (which he despised), and had some sort of complicated method of putting fully into that mode, and by the time he landed in Germany, it had been pinging towers the entire way. Thank goodness AT&T was understanding, or that bill would have been very painful.


[QUOTE=sam_gordon;47005734

But, if use of an electronic device could be so detrimental to flying, why aren't they banned? Shouldn't the TSA force us to check our electronics?[/QUOTE]

And then have to reimburse us for when they break? Or when they lose them? Or when they are left on the tarmac during a storm and are soaked?
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:11 PM   #20
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One reason never usually brought up for the fact they don't want you using those devices is that they want you to be paying attention in case of an emergency and also the less stuff "out" the easier to evacuate. They say most things happen between the ground and 10k ft.

I work as a train conductor and I used to wonder about the 10k ft rule, but quickly realized why it's in effect. Usually once a day I will have someone miss a station announcement, try to exit at the wrong door, or something to that effect and they are usually wearing headphones/ear buds, and they always say the same thing "sorry, didn't hear you." People on the train also think it's ok to leave luggage or even a baby carriage in the aisle. I have had to quickly evacuate passengers from the front part of the front car when it looked like we going hit hit a loaded gravel truck that was stuck on a crossing and we had been traveling 60 MPH. The passengers not wearing headphones heard me right away, while it took those wearing them a few seconds to comprehend what was going on. Passengers who were sitting in window seats next to someone wearing headphones had to tap them to get moving. Luckily we stopped before hitting the truck, but it was close enough that when I got off the train I could touch the train and the truck at the same time. I know trains are different the planes but a lot of the basic safety issues are the same.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
Interesting Blog... http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs...th-or-reality-

And hey... Mythbusters did find out older, unshielded planes could have problems... http://mythbustersresults.com/episode49.

But, if use of an electronic device could be so detrimental to flying, why aren't they banned? Shouldn't the TSA force us to check our electronics?
TSA? No! No! No!

The potential for problems can be dealt with effectively by the existing practices. Just follow FA directions.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:24 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by CPT Tripss View Post
TSA? No! No! No!

The potential for problems can be dealt with effectively by the existing practices. Just follow FA directions.
But would a terrorist follow directions? We outlaw nailclippers, but allow someone to bring a phone on board. If use of a phone was that dangerous, what prevents someone from simply turning it on at a critical juncture?

I do want to point out, I don't get mad about turning off electronics, I simply don't see the point. Although the PP who brought up listening to emergency instructions was a good one.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by hsmamato2 View Post
hmmm...ok. I probably never paid attention, but now I have a kindle for reading... It surprised me about the regular camera though<i'd never heard that either. I think what got me thinking about this was another thread with the title" I should have landed 15 minutes ago"....so the person was obviously using a device while circling/waiting....made me wonder if I'd just been missing all this.....
FWIW,I don't think it interferes with plane stuff either...and I don't mind turning stuff off(though I wanted to keep reading lol) it just seemed,really enforced. Last week we had to circle/wait for Airforce 1 to clear,and we had to keep everything shut down for about an hour.....
So you didn't actually read the thread. They weren't using a device while circling/waiting. They weren't even on a plane. Their flight had been cancelled.

And No-not a new thing at all.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
But would a terrorist follow directions? We outlaw nailclippers, but allow someone to bring a phone on board. If use of a phone was that dangerous, what prevents someone from simply turning it on at a critical juncture?

I do want to point out, I don't get mad about turning off electronics, I simply don't see the point. Although the PP who brought up listening to emergency instructions was a good one.
Electronics may cause a problem with avionics. So, in an abundance of caution . . .

Jumping all the way to bringing down planes at will . . .
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by CPT Tripss View Post
Electronics may cause a problem with avionics. So, in an abundance of caution . . .

Jumping all the way to bringing down planes at will . . .
Wait... going back to something you posted on the first page said electronic interference caused (potential) problems with the communication between pilots & ATC. Granted, that's important. But is there a study about RF interference from personal electronics in avionics (ie: flight controls/displays)?
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:56 AM   #26
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I hate the no electronics policy. It means that I have to hear all the noises and such in the cabin when we are climbing. Southwest took XMRadio out of the Airtran planes and so I go to listen to my mp3 player and had a not so nice passenger chew me out for using it........yep.. the barf was going his way if I felt sick!

What is the use of airplane mode anyway if the phone has to be completely off!

Wonder if they would make me shut off my old sony walkman cassette player

Last edited by lylone; 12-28-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by lylone View Post
I hate the no electronics policy. It means that I have to hear all the noises and such in the cabin when we are climbing. Southwest took XMRadio out of the Airtran planes and so I go to listen to my mp3 player and had a not so nice passenger chew me out for using it........yep.. the barf was going his way if I felt sick!

What is the use of airplane mode anyway if the phone has to be completely off!

Wonder if they would make me shut off my old sony walkman cassette player
Airplane mode is for above 10K feet. And yes, anything with an 'on/off' switch needs to be off as long as the boarding door is closed and the plane is below 10K feet.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bumbershoot View Post
It's like people being annoyed with people who are on their cellphones in places deemed annoying. WHAT is the difference to someone not in my party if I'm talking to the person standing next to me, or talking to my aunt across the country? I'm interacting with people. Even if I'm texting, HOW is that any different than chatting with someone right near me? I don't understand the annoyance with electronic devices.
Some people feel the need to SPEAK VERY LOUDLY WHEN TALKING ON THEIR CELL PHONE while people sitting near each other talk more softly (all caps used to make reading this text annoying to illustrate my point). I've been in restaurants where I could not hear the conversation at a table half way across the room but then the woman's cell phone rang and when she answered the call I could hear every word she said. I dread the idea of allowing people to talk on their cell phones on the plane unless they install some sort of privacy booth and make people go in there to make a call.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:09 PM   #29
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A few reasons Ive read, not sure how many of them are real facts and how many are "internet facts"
  1. They don't want passengers using earphones which might interfere with the passenger hearing instructions (which passengers who fly often can probably recite by heart)
  2. So many devices now have bluetooth and WiFii built in. So many people don't know how to turn it off or don't even know the device has those features.
  3. The only way to be sure is to test each device with each piece of equipment which might be susceptible to interference. An iPad might not be an issue but a $80 tablet bought in a place like Odd Lots might. Poor quality control. Maybe BT and WiFii are on even if the device is put in airplane mode. Maybe it's not shielded.
  4. They can't have one set of rules for intelligent people (who now how to put their device in airplane mode) and who own quality products with a different set of rules for people who don't know how to use their device and/or are using junk.
  5. How many people at WDW use their flash, even after being told to turn it off. Distance is such flash doesn't even help. People don't know how to turn their flash off. The analogy suggests making people turn off the device is the only way to ensure a device isn't in a mode which isn't allowed.

This isn't new. What's new is the need to individually list items. What's new is the need to tell people everything with an on/off switch must be off.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:15 PM   #30
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There was a story on NPR the other day with aviation experts (don't recall their credentials, but they seemed legit, even to skeptical me) discussing this very issue.

According to the story, the interference issue is probably a legacy from a different age -- but, they said it really is a concern because these items are heavy (for their size), loose, often made of glass and metal making them dangerous for take-off and landing because they could knock about. Hence no rush to change the rules, but the rules are under review for possible overall change.

Yes I realize my book and water bottle they let me hold are loose and dangerous too. Just reporting what I heard.
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