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Old 02-17-2013, 08:43 AM   #1321
Robo
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A great deal (most) of the so-called "inside information" in this thread was fabricated and posted with the purpose of causing arguments on the board.

Example:
The assertion that "Disney does not like AP holders, and
wants to squelch AP holders' ability to ride major attractions" is ridiculous on its face.
But, it was posted to stir things up, as this board is ripe with...
(you guessed it) AP holders.

While slivers of REAL information regarding FP+ contained in this thread MIGHT come to fruition, it is unlikely that most of the "insider information" had any resemblance to actual "secret plans" or policies being hatched by Disney brass.

At least one "agitator" responsible for stirring this pot of fabricated "policies" has been silent on this board for the better part of a month.
Only time will tell if that will remain the case.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:56 AM   #1322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
A great deal (most) of the so-called "inside information" in this thread was fabricated and posted with the purpose of causing arguments on the board.

Example:
The assertion that "Disney does not like AP holders, and
wants to squelch AP holders' ability to ride major attractions" is ridiculous on its face.
But, it was posted to stir things up, as this board is ripe with...
(you guessed it) AP holders.

While slivers of REAL information regarding FP+ contained in this thread MIGHT come to fruition, it is unlikely that most of the "insider information" had any resemblance to actual "secret plans" or policies being hatched by Disney brass.

At least one "agitator" responsible for stirring this pot of fabricated "policies" has been silent on this board for the better part of a month.
Only time will tell if that will remain the case.
I was thinking the same thing....
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:00 PM   #1323
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:29 AM   #1324
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I've read about 50 pages and just don't have it in me to read another 40+, so sorry if this has already been addressed.

I'm not an AP holder*, but I don't see it as "unfair" that they should have more "chances" to ride a given ride. Arguments about ticket cost aside, you could look at it in terms of probability and statistics.

To make the math simple, let's specify that each person would only ride once per day. An AP holder has 365 opportunies a year to ride Space Mountain with a FP and the guest who is there for a week vacation has 7/365 chances to ride within a year. So, it's true that the AP holder has hundreds more chances to ride within the span of a year. You could extend this logic to say that the AP holder (assuming they always renew) would have tens of THOUSANDS of opportunities to ride in their lifetime, while the person who goes to WDW for only one week long trip in their life only gets 7/n thousand chances. That's just not fair, right?

But just as, no matter how many times you flip a coin, the probability remains 50/50 to get heads EACH TIME you flip it, both guests have exactly the SAME chance of riding with a FP on THAT day. It's perfectly equitable. Just like someone said earlier (was it Robo? It sounded like the kind of sage wisdom that Robo would post)... equality of OPPORTUNITY, not equality of OUTCOME! Sure, it's possible that the once-in-a-lifetime guest might miss out on riding Space Mountain for some reason. Let's say all the FPs are gone by the time they get there. But to blame the folks who get to ride "ALL THE TIME" for uncaringly using up all the FPs rather than choosing not to ride to ensure others get the chance????

By that logic, those of us who vacation at WDW even once every few years should forego riding the rides at all. It's only fair to ensure that other guests get the chance. After all, they may never come back and we've been on those rides before. We have to spread the wealth, after all!

Ok, I'm stirring the pot too politically, but you get my point. Some here are pointing fingers at AP holders as being entitled or greedy for expecting the same perks in the park on any given day. But the converse argument is, how much is enough to sacrifice in the name of fairness? Maybe those AP holders should have to donate half of their days to those of us who can't afford an AP? Where does it end?

As far as the overall FP+ debate, I am ALL in favor of being able to reserve a later time (thus theoretically replacing the need to engage in the former practice of using late FPs). But, if current rumors bear out, the trade-off is not worth it... specifically limitations on how many FP+s you get and that they have to be spread among several "classes" of attraction, and you cannot get more than one for each attraction! Those limitations elimiate much of the benefit of the FP concept for a vast number of us.




* full disclosure: technically I AM an AP holder, but not for WDW... I'm currently living overseas and the cost of a DLP annual passport is less than the cost of four days' admission.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:56 AM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
I've read about 50 pages and just don't have it in me to read another 40+, so sorry if this has already been addressed.

I'm not an AP holder*, but I don't see it as "unfair" that they should have more "chances" to ride a given ride. Arguments about ticket cost aside, you could look at it in terms of probability and statistics.

To make the math simple, let's specify that each person would only ride once per day. An AP holder has 365 opportunies a year to ride Space Mountain with a FP and the guest who is there for a week vacation has 7/365 chances to ride within a year. So, it's true that the AP holder has hundreds more chances to ride within the span of a year. You could extend this logic to say that the AP holder (assuming they always renew) would have tens of THOUSANDS of opportunities to ride in their lifetime, while the person who goes to WDW for only one week long trip in their life only gets 7/n thousand chances. That's just not fair, right?

But just as, no matter how many times you flip a coin, the probability remains 50/50 to get heads EACH TIME you flip it, both guests have exactly the SAME chance of riding with a FP on THAT day. It's perfectly equitable. Just like someone said earlier (was it Robo? It sounded like the kind of sage wisdom that Robo would post)... equality of OPPORTUNITY, not equality of OUTCOME! Sure, it's possible that the once-in-a-lifetime guest might miss out on riding Space Mountain for some reason. Let's say all the FPs are gone by the time they get there. But to blame the folks who get to ride "ALL THE TIME" for uncaringly using up all the FPs rather than choosing not to ride to ensure others get the chance????

By that logic, those of us who vacation at WDW even once every few years should forego riding the rides at all. It's only fair to ensure that other guests get the chance. After all, they may never come back and we've been on those rides before. We have to spread the wealth, after all!

Ok, I'm stirring the pot too politically, but you get my point. Some here are pointing fingers at AP holders as being entitled or greedy for expecting the same perks in the park on any given day. But the converse argument is, how much is enough to sacrifice in the name of fairness? Maybe those AP holders should have to donate half of their days to those of us who can't afford an AP? Where does it end?

As far as the overall FP+ debate, I am ALL in favor of being able to reserve a later time (thus theoretically replacing the need to engage in the former practice of using late FPs). But, if current rumors bear out, the trade-off is not worth it... specifically limitations on how many FP+s you get and that they have to be spread among several "classes" of attraction, and you cannot get more than one for each attraction! Those limitations elimiate much of the benefit of the FP concept for a vast number of us.




* full disclosure: technically I AM an AP holder, but not for WDW... I'm currently living overseas and the cost of a DLP annual passport is less than the cost of four days' admission.
Thanks for the thoughtful post, but as Robo said a couple of posts back, the guy who said all the inflammatory things about Disney hating AP holders and AP holders' entitlement needing to be reigned in has basically been outed as a fraud. And that's why the thread went dark a month ago.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:06 AM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missyrose View Post
Thanks for the thoughtful post, but as Robo said a couple of posts back, the guy who said all the inflammatory things about Disney hating AP holders and AP holders' entitlement needing to be reigned in has basically been outed as a fraud. And that's why the thread went dark a month ago.
That's what I get for skipping to the end!

Perhaps the OP's information was inaccurate, but a number of people's responses to it seemed to indicate that they believed such a plan was only fair, which is what I was reacting to more so than the OP.

As I said, my bigger concern is with how the FP+ rules develop for EVERYONE. If it means we are limited to one headliner, that will stink. Even remaining within the FP window enforcement, we manage to FP just about every attraction that offers it. At a minimum, we use it primarily for the headliners since minor attractions lines are often not that bad in stand-by anyway. As I'm understanding the (admittedly rumored) guidelines, we would have to choose ONE of the headliners, stand in long lines for the other two, and "waste" our other FP+s on rides that we might otherwise skip or spend an extra 10 minutes in the stand-by line. I was initially excited about FP+ giving us the opportunity to reserve times in the afternoon/evening, but if we can only do that for a FEW rides per day and only ONE of our priority rides???? I'm not liking the way this is starting to sound at all!
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:16 PM   #1327
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There's no point in getting too stressed before official word regarding how FP+ will work is released.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:56 PM   #1328
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There's no point in getting too stressed before official word regarding how FP+ will work is released.
I still can't believe Disney is being so parsimonious in it's release of information about the program. We've had nothing new in weeks. I notice on the 'official' Disney blogs any posts complaining about rumored changes or calls for new information are summarily deleted. They have to roll this out at some point and some advance notice would seem logical, not that this whole process has been anything close to logical.

I suspect (no inside knowledge of ANY kind!) 1) that response has not been the gushing love fest they expected and therefore requires last minute "fixes"

2) the website implementation has been a miserable failure, something they could get away with in the past but won't work now. If I have trouble with reservations, tickets, ADR's etc. online I can call, I doubt that will be feasible regarding FP+.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:24 PM   #1329
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Originally Posted by doggydoc View Post
I still can't believe Disney is being so parsimonious in it's release of information about the program. We've had nothing new in weeks. I notice on the 'official' Disney blogs any posts complaining about rumored changes or calls for new information are summarily deleted. They have to roll this out at some point and some advance notice would seem logical, not that this whole process has been anything close to logical.

I suspect (no inside knowledge of ANY kind!) 1) that response has not been the gushing love fest they expected and therefore requires last minute "fixes"

2) the website implementation has been a miserable failure, something they could get away with in the past but won't work now. If I have trouble with reservations, tickets, ADR's etc. online I can call, I doubt that will be feasible regarding FP+.
Fully agree!
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:17 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggydoc
"

2) the website implementation has been a miserable failure, something they could get away with in the past but won't work now. If I have trouble with reservations, tickets, ADR's etc. online I can call, I doubt that will be feasible regarding FP+.
This is my big worry!
Disney websites over the last 3 years time and time again have not be able to handle any kind of Limited edition or new hard to get ADRs..
People who thought they had there item or ADR, ended up not getting them..

I had my CC charge in two of these limited editions items and a conformation Number and they still, said I did not get one!
I did get my money back, but it would not have been a problem if disney site could handle to Amount of people and keep track of who's got what...
The sad thing is disney store would not let me place the order over the phone!! I found this unreasonable!

I expect FP+ to be the same!
I wish disney would just announce it 60days BEFORE they are rolling it out..
So everyone who has those dates can book peacefully, instead of the mad rush we saw with BOG ressies..
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:46 PM   #1331
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I wish CMs that do have some insight would simply wait and keep that info to themselves until it actually released. I know for fact that is what they are instructed to do.

A little knowledge can a dangerous thing, especially on Net forums.

As to why no further official word from Disney. Until they know they can release it and it work at least reasonably well, I don't think they will rush it. Also as everyone knows many are having problems with the website usage. Since that is an integral part to the program, that has to work better.

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Old 02-24-2013, 05:58 PM   #1332
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Disney has a severe problem with it's website because of go.com and how slow and cumbersome it has become. I cannot fathom that a FP+ on the web will EVER be a good experience or work well. Before anyone bashes me I'm Disney shareholder!
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:04 PM   #1333
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I am going to have to rethink how I do everything!!
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:05 PM   #1334
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Disney has a severe problem with it's website because of go.com and how slow and cumbersome it has become. I cannot fathom that a FP+ on the web will EVER be a good experience or work well. Before anyone bashes me I'm Disney shareholder!
You aren't kidding!
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:40 PM   #1335
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I am going to have to rethink how I do everything!!
This could become true for every visitor to the parks
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