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Old 01-10-2013, 08:00 PM   #1111
MAGICFOR2
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Originally Posted by issa View Post
lol I wish I was a CM !

But for now - I am simply a stay at home mom

"So in your Family, Johnny gets his dream, Susie gets her dream, but sorry Bobby we couldn't choose yours. Then your choice on the second list is none of the above."

We dont know what the available "pre" FP+ would be atm - would they be the test list we have seen - or all of them open or limits on which list?

but in the situation you supply - with 3 per day in 1 park - since resort guests are likely to stay multiple days - perhaps you could do 2 magic kingdom days - Or - maybe Johnny's dream is in Epcot on Tuesday - and Susie and bobby are in Magic Kingdom which you visit Wednesday.

I am really looking forward to more concrete information being released

Also I said at the top of my post

Fp stays basically the SAME for all guests - I.e when guests get to the park - they have the same time limits and availability as they do NOW. I did read a post from a blog that said as much ..looking very Disney official - i will try and find it.
So - for those that like to ride Test track 5 times - sure - use your FP+ on Testtrack for lets say 1pm - get there at opening, grab a FP , ride stand by , use your FP, Ride standby, grab ANOTHER FP cause time window is open now, Use your FP+ cause the time slot is open -Heck ride it AGAIn standby and then come back to ride on your Last FP time slot.
Your doing nothing really different then you do now. Your still spending the day at testrack juggling standby and FP times - you just have one additonal FP+ you planned ahead on.

Disney is making a perk for ONSITE guests and limiting them to 3 "pre"FP+- and maximizing the experiences to everything people wait for - Not just rides
but meet and greets, parades, fireworks - these PreFP+'s make the vacation for guests.

Now lets add another twist - what if ONLY resort guests got to choose certain options - lets say the Firework and parade "pre" FP+ option - i.e regular guests can choose FP+ from the Standard selection of current FP options i.e rides. But the perk to have a Firework viewing area or parade area...thats for resort guests. That further thins our the impact of "preFP+" on line ques - because their making the choices to invest in experiences. Its another Perk to staying On site - and takes nothing away from off site because it was a free for all BEFORE the FP+ anyways - its business as usual. Stake out a spot 1 hour ahead.
I believe the exec in the video was saying they are doing away with the paper FP. So you would have to do the Magic+ program in order to FP at all once this gets implemented.

AT this point, those choices for fireworks and parades are on the same list as the ride, so you get to choose a ride or a parade for one of your 3. He is saying that all guests will have the same opportunity.

They are leaving it open for tweaking though, so it could end up with more perks before they are finished.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:02 PM   #1112
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I don't know...he's talking about offering more than three. That seems pretty certain. I think getting more day-of is more likely than randomly awarding some ahead of time.
Once your in the park for the day, Jungle Cruise, Tiki, CoP, Monsters Inc, Stitch, IASW, Haunted Mansion and PoC will all have availability, I am sure there will be lots of surprise and delight to give away from that tier of rides.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:21 PM   #1113
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And the numbers you have been crunching have convinced me that they both can't exist.
Yeah, the more I look at the numbers, the more I have to agree with you.

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You are really optimistic about that snippet. I can't interpret those comments that way.

VIDEO
"guest select up to three, that they want to set for each day, then we have an expectation that we may have the ability to bring some more surprise and delight and bring you some additional ones as you go." That sounds like "bonus" FP+ for those under utilized sections of the park.
Yep, nothing in that video makes me think that day of FPs will be available.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:29 PM   #1114
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All I said was "possible".
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:37 PM   #1115
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All I said was "possible".
Ok I'll give you "possible". However I would say it is long from "probable".
Based on what he said, I would suspect the "extra" would be maybe an extra parade viewing, or something like that, but not extra FPs.

At this point I'm expecting my 4-7 FPs (most for high profile attractions) be reduced to 1 or 2 for high profile attractions then 1 or 2 more for things that historically one hasn't needed them for.

But this is all speculation. Only time will tell.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:52 PM   #1116
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Then you either try for same-day FPs for the fourth ride or you wait in the standby line and play with the interactive queue.

What do you do now if you can only get FPs for three out of four must-do rides?
We get our butts out of bed early, get to the park before rope drop and get a FP for the 2nd ride while riding stand-by for the 1st ride, get a FP for the 3rd ride while riding FP for the 2nd, etc. until we have hit all the "bigs" Then we eat lunch, do a few smaller rides and see what the day brings after that. We have gone during busy times alot, because of school schedules, and this system has never failed us. The scenario where we don't get to ride everything we want has never happened to us.

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Clearly then Mom gets one, Dad gets one and your 4 kids all have to arm wrestle for the last one

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I don't think percentages matter, at this point. They will be easily adjusted as things progress.
This can quite clearly be summed up very easily with Disney math. We all use it to justify and extra day, right?

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Originally Posted by robinb View Post
Me too.

I already know that the FP return time enforcement really changed the way we toured the parks last month. We used to pick up FPs through the morning and then come back to that park at night and use them. The FPs gave us a reason to return to a packed park (we go Christmas/NYE every year) so we could catch dinner, ride a few attractions, see the fireworks or parade, etc. On this last trip that we would go back to our resort for our afternoon swim/break and we only went into a park at night 3 nights out of 9. Once for IlluniNations, once to see the Osbourne Lights & once to see Wishes. And on the MK night we had a FP gathered at noon for 8:00 pm for Little Mermaid and a FP from BTMR that was good after the 1 hour timeslot because the ride went down. Without those two FP I doubt if we would have gone to the MK since we had already seen Wishes from the Contemporary. I was honestly surprised that we made it back into the parks so infrequently as we are usually more "commando". Disney lost out on all the meals that we would have eaten in the parks instead of offsite and all the snacks we usually purchase while waiting for the parade & fireworks.

I am really afraid that FP+ will make my touring even a bigger PITB over Christmas/NYE but like you I am trying not to get worked up over it until I understand how it's going to work. I know I don't like the first phase and I doubt I will like the rest of it either. We have DVC PAP certificates that we are planning to activate in March and I am having a hard time getting excited about going .
We didn't even know about showing up late until the last two trips, but it made our trip so much more enjoyable. And when we showed up in the evening it wasn't busy, so we actually helped by not showing up during the busy time and let some stand-by people get on sooner. So this actually helps spread people out - I don't know why they can't see this. In my estimation, people have already figured out how to add more "Magic" to their trips by doing what works for them. DSIS and her family love to roll out of bed at noon, get in the park at 1, and they know they won't get on everything, but relaxing is important to them, so they enjoy what they can and stay up late - getting on rides close to closing without much wait. For them that is the "magic" they have found.

For those who can't figure out how to work it out - they probably have many other situations in their lives that go that way for them. i.e. Picking Monday morning at 9 to show up at the DMV and then complain because the wait is so long. There are personality differences in every walk of life - for Disney to try to overcome that by scheduling more Magic for us is just silly - in the long run, it will still turn out that way because people are people, not robots.



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Originally Posted by mbrittb00 View Post
That is what I thought.

I guess Disney is trying to create a system that creates Equality of Outcome rather than Equality of Opportunity. As things are right now everyone has the exact same opportunity. However some aren't willing to do what is necessary (i.e. get up early and make it to RP) in order to get the same benefit as someone else. In walks in a system that tries to create Equality of Outcome. After all is said in done however (unless they expand the system to micromanage your entire trip down to the minute), it still won't work as those that get there at RD will still get more stuff done.
This. I guess you said it the same way I did. It's like some people who win the lottery end up broke and unhappy within a few years. They are programmed to operate a certain way, no matter what opportunities come to them.

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I will stick with my contention about Disney not saying anything is a bad sign. Disney has clearly introduced this as a marketing tool to rearrange crowds and change the dynamics of the park - maximize infrastructure. That means getting people away from the e-ticket rides and into meet and greets, parades, shows, and underutilized rides. They have said that. Giving people advanced FP and unlimited daily FP will only make the headliner rides MUCH more crowded. Which leads to...

UNHAPPY customers demanding very expensive new rides to absorb more people so that the wait times will drop. And every time they add a new ride it causes more pressure on the e-rides and draws more and more people away from the cheaper things to maintain like the meet and greets, parades, and current infrastructure. Disney is NOT advertising this as the next best way to enjoy our thrill rides! And if that was their intent, it is what they would be doing.
More expensive rides???? I would be up for that!!! Yes, they didn't say, enhance your thrill ride experience, they said "enhance your guest experience." They are going to decide what will make our day perfect.

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You are really optimistic about that snippet. I can't interpret those comments that way.



VIDEO
"guest select up to three, that they want to set for each day, then we have an expectation that we may have the ability to bring some more surprise and delight and bring you some additional ones as you go." That sounds like "bonus" FP+ for those under utilized sections of the park.
"Surprise! You have a front of the line pass to Astro Orbiter! Run right over there now!" I could see that happening - you check in for your FP+ at SM, and it talks to you and tells you that you can do that. They have the RFID reader at Astro, and it says, "Welcome! we've been waiting for you!" It's so magical you forget that you have used up your 3 choices and will wait fore 60 minutes for Splash!
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:06 PM   #1117
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Originally Posted by MAGICFOR2 View Post
"Surprise! You have a front of the line pass to Astro Orbiter! Run right over there now!" I could see that happening - you check in for your FP+ at SM, and it talks to you and tells you that you can do that. They have the RFID reader at Astro, and it says, "Welcome! we've been waiting for you!" It's so magical you forget that you have used up your 3 choices and will wait fore 60 minutes for Splash!
Very good! I can see that. I might even bite on that one, and the personalized greeting at the Astro Orbiter would be fun also.

And by the way, that is a perfect use of the "pixiedust" smilie!
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:32 PM   #1118
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I would say that I was where you are now last June. I was in the park for 2 weeks, and FP+ rumors were swirling. I was getting pretty excited about the possibility of logging into my computer the night before going to a park and booking a couple FP times in advance (TSMM for 6:00 pm and a ToT at 8:00). I would like to have one Fantasmic! FP for one day of the trip. This way I could go over to MK in the morning, grab FP all day enjoy the park. Head to a 3:00 lunch at the Grand Floridian Cafe and then go to DHS for the evening with a few FP in hand. This is how this should work. Robo warned me this would never happen, that it couldn't happen. He wasn't wrong.

I will stick with my contention about Disney not saying anything is a bad sign. Disney has clearly introduced this as a marketing tool to rearrange crowds and change the dynamics of the park - maximize infrastructure. That means getting people away from the e-ticket rides and into meet and greets, parades, shows, and underutilized rides. They have said that. Giving people advanced FP and unlimited daily FP will only make the headliner rides MUCH more crowded. Which leads to...

UNHAPPY customers demanding very expensive new rides to absorb more people so that the wait times will drop. And every time they add a new ride it causes more pressure on the e-rides and draws more and more people away from the cheaper things to maintain like the meet and greets, parades, and current infrastructure. Disney is NOT advertising this as the next best way to enjoy our thrill rides! And if that was their intent, it is what they would be doing.
I feel like you are arguing against an impossible scenario, unlimited same-day FPs, when no one is taking the position that unlimited FPs could ever exist. They certainly don't currently exist.

I am merely taking the position that same-day FPs certainly will exist in some form.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:42 PM   #1119
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I feel like you are arguing against an impossible scenario, unlimited same-day FPs, when no one is taking the position that unlimited FPs could ever exist. They certainly don't currently exist.

I am merely taking the position that same-day FPs certainly will exist in some form.
Perhaps, but not for the headliners. The Rides only have so much ride capacity, and thus only so many FPs available. Once the pre-selections are done, there won't be any left.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #1120
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I feel like you are arguing against an impossible scenario, unlimited same-day FPs, when no one is taking the position that unlimited FPs could ever exist. They certainly don't currently exist.

I am merely taking the position that same-day FPs certainly will exist in some form.
Well of course there will be leftover fastpasses that can be obtained throughout the day. But those will be for those opting out of the FP+ or for those who haven't used their allotted three. Also, don't forget everybody on the bracelet will have the ability to switch their three FP+ choices out for new ones all day long.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:06 PM   #1121
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Perhaps, but not for the headliners. The Rides only have so much ride capacity, and thus only so many FPs available. Once the pre-selections are done, there won't be any left.
We have no way of knowing how many FPs will be left after preselection. We do not know how many FPs there will be in total nor do we know if any will be held back for same-day use or what FP rules will be in effect if same-day FPs are offered.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:10 PM   #1122
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Well of course there will be leftover fastpasses that can be obtained throughout the day. But those will be for those opting out of the FP+ or for those who haven't used their allotted three. Also, don't forget everybody on the bracelet will have the ability to switch their three FP+ choices out for new ones all day long.
There's no way you can know this. What about offsite guests? If they feel they are being treated as second class, then they won't bring their $$$$ to WDW- something Disney does not want to happen.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:10 PM   #1123
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We have no way of knowing how many FPs will be left after preselection. We do not know how many FPs there will be in total nor do we know if any will be held back for same-day use or what FP rules will be in effect if same-day FPs are offered.
It is a fairly well known fact that most highliner attractions have a daily ride capacity of between 20k and 25k. And that FPs take up approx 80% of that. So for said attraction there will be 16k - 20k FPS. Considering that all the parks hold 3x -5x that number, it is safe to say that most if not all of the FPs for the headliners will be gone prior to anyone entering the park for that day.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:17 PM   #1124
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It is a fairly well known fact that most highliner attractions have a daily ride capacity of between 20k and 25k. And that FPs take up approx 80% of that. So for said attraction there will be 16k - 20k FPS. Considering that all the parks hold 3x -5x that number, it is safe to say that most if not all of the FPs for the headliners will be gone prior to anyone entering the park for that day.
I don't think we have near enough information to say that. I think it is very possible that some amount of FPs, even headliners will be head back for day of. The system only really works if everyone participates. So I think there will have to be some incentive for last minute day guests, offsite guests, etc, otherwise they'll opt out and the system will fail.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:18 PM   #1125
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We have no way of knowing how many FPs will be left after preselection. We do not know how many FPs there will be in total nor do we know if any will be held back for same-day use or what FP rules will be in effect if same-day FPs are offered.
Mbrittb00 has sound mathematical logic. Also I don't know how any FP could be held back for the day of. If I went online to book my advanced FP for RnR and I was told that all FP were gone, and then I went to the park to see people grabbing them for day of use, it was weaken the integrity of the FP+.

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There's no way you can know this. What about offsite guests? If they feel they are being treated as second class, then they won't bring their $$$$ to WDW- something Disney does not want to happen.
All offsite guests can get the bracelet (or rfid card) and have all access to FP+. Disney wants everyone on the bracelet.
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