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Old 12-12-2012, 09:26 PM   #106
luvmy3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Princess'_Daddy View Post
I'm not the poster you're quoting, but yes, we ask the parents of any child before our children go over to their home to play whether there are guns in the house. If the answer is yes (and it has only been "yes" twice), we ask for the child to come to our home or to meet somewhere else to get together. It has never been an issue, and we assume the parents are not lying to us when we ask. We explain that it has nothing to do with our trust of the parents, but that it's a personal value, and both gun owners were completely understanding and our daughter is friends with both girls. They merely play at our home or at a third-party location.
I got the impression that that poster wouldn't even be giving that child a choice to come to her house, afterall they don't hang out with people who have guns Its pretty clear you have nothing against people who own firearms, that poster clearly does.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:38 PM   #107
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To me the gun vs. pool comparison is apt in some ways, not apt in others.

Guns, pools, and for that matter big dogs, are things that I'd ask about before my young child went to your house. If the answer was yes it wasn't an automatic no, but it meant I'd ask follow up questions, and that I'd probably wait to know you better before I made up my mind about my kid visiting alone.

When my son was younger he had a friend whose parents were very nice but who clearly had different ideas than I did about pool safety. Once she said to me "I'm so glad your son is such a good swimmer, my son is too so I can let them swim while I go inside to make dinner". The boys were 3 at the time. My son was never allowed back at their house unsupervised. Now if she'd said, instead, "We have a high fence with a lock that separates the pool from the rest of the yard, and I can 100% promise you that the boys will never be inside that fence without me, even my 8 year old doesn't go there alone". Then I'd have considered it.

Similarly, if I asked you "do you have guns" and you said "yes but they're in the bedroom, the kids never go there, and besides they took a safety class", then no, never. If you say "my husband is a federal marshall and needs to bring his gun home from work. It is either on his person, or in a locked gun safe, with a trigger lock, in a different room from the ammunition at all times", then I might say yes. Two different situations.

So, in that respect guns and pools are similar.

But as far as birthday parties, I think that guns and pools are very different. If you have a pool party and invite my young child, and I go, I can control the variable I'm most worried about. I can't guarantee that every child at the party will be supervised closely enough, but I can guarantee that my child will be watched every minute.

On the other hand, with guns I'm not so worried about MY kid being unsupervised, I'm worried about someone else's kid being unsupervised. I'm worried about the dad whose "watching his kid" and turns to see what someone behind him is laughing about, taking his eyes off his kid who turns around too with the gun still in his hands. I'm worried about the adult whose so busy watching the shooter next to him, because God forbid they outperform the kid, that he doesn't notice that the kid has passed the gun off hand to hand, rather than putting it down, and there's a mishap and a stray bullet. That's way harder for me to control.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:47 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
It's not rhetoric, it's fact. There's a reason your insurance company requires a hefty premium for owning a pool, but not for owning a gun. Statistically speaking, the pool is more dangerous. I'd also be willing to bet that if your extreme attitude is prevalent in your circle of friends that were one of your friends to own a gun, they'd be very unlikely to mention it - even if the topic comes up. There are 80 million gun owners in the U.S. It's extremely unlikely you'll be able to keep your children away from the children of gun owners for their entire adolescence.

Probably one of the best things your kids could do would be to attend such a party - they could even leave before the actual gun handling & shooting begins. But, the safety portion is as important as knowing how to swim, if not more so. I forget the news program (wanna say 20/20) that aired the segment on kids & guns several years back. But, the basic study had children from gun-owning households & children from non gun-owning households. They put these kids in a room with a real (but disabled) gun and no adults. Without exception, none of the children from gun-owning households touched the gun. NONE. Most of them ran from the room calling for an adult. The only kids to pick up the gun (and some pointed it at each other) were from homes of families that did not own guns. Needless to say, it was a REAL eye opener for the parents. They all took the safety course with their children immediately.
Do you have a link? Because the 20/20 show I can find access to refers to a study where 1/2 the kids received Eddie the Eagle type training and 1/2 didn't. Kids were then left alone with a peer in a room with nonfunctional guns. In both groups 65% of the children picked up the gun and pointed at each other. The training had no impact.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobaur...eagle-costume/

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video?id=7282623
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:49 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by aprilgail2 View Post
I totally agree!



I ASK them-if they have guns then my child did not hang out at their home.
But again, you (and others) choose to host rather than have your children where you know there are guns. That's different than saying those children can't be friends with your kids - which is what was being said back on page 1 or 2 by pp. That was the part that puzzled so many of us.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:55 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
It's not rhetoric, it's fact. There's a reason your insurance company requires a hefty premium for owning a pool, but not for owning a gun. Statistically speaking, the pool is more dangerous. I'd also be willing to bet that if your extreme attitude is prevalent in your circle of friends that were one of your friends to own a gun, they'd be very unlikely to mention it - even if the topic comes up. There are 80 million gun owners in the U.S. It's extremely unlikely you'll be able to keep your children away from the children of gun owners for their entire adolescence.

Probably one of the best things your kids could do would be to attend such a party - they could even leave before the actual gun handling & shooting begins. But, the safety portion is as important as knowing how to swim, if not more so. I forget the news program (wanna say 20/20) that aired the segment on kids & guns several years back. But, the basic study had children from gun-owning households & children from non gun-owning households. They put these kids in a room with a real (but disabled) gun and no adults. Without exception, none of the children from gun-owning households touched the gun. NONE. Most of them ran from the room calling for an adult. The only kids to pick up the gun (and some pointed it at each other) were from homes of families that did not own guns. Needless to say, it was a REAL eye opener for the parents. They all took the safety course with their children immediately.
I have an inground pool and I'm an insurance agent. There is absolutely no extra premium, let alone "extra hefty premium" for having a pool.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:58 PM   #111
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My DH has guns. He is a hunter. We have rifles, shot guns and handguns in my home. My soon to be DS has been taught to shoot and about guns from a very young age. To this day, he and his dad go to the range to shoot. We have never had an issue with him getting into the guns or otherwise. The only small issue we had once was with a friend of his who was tried to get my DS to show them to him. My DS firmly told him, no way.

That said. Im not sure about these parties for 8 year olds. Not because they can't handle them but because of the word PARTY. A party has the connotation of the word fun and play. I don't think , at that age, teaching them that guns are for play and fun is a good idea. But I could be very wrong about how this is presented.

Now, I would be for taking an 8 yr old to the range for the safety lessons they give and to learn to shoot safely. You can have both fun and gun safety and respect, but , IMO, at that age, it needs to be presented in that way. I would love to see how these parties are set up. When guns are mysterious, kids seem to less "interested" in them as a play toy.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:01 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Mickey'snewestfan View Post
Do you have a link? Because the 20/20 show I can find access to refers to a study where 1/2 the kids received Eddie the Eagle type training and 1/2 didn't. Kids were then left alone with a peer in a room with nonfunctional guns. In both groups 65% of the children picked up the gun and pointed at each other. The training had no impact.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobaur...eagle-costume/

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video?id=7282623
That wasn't it, but it had a very similar feel so I feel pretty good it was 20/20. The kids in the one I saw were school age, not toddlers. I would expect toddlers reaction to Eddie The Eagle (or anything similar) to be pretty much non existent. They're too young for it to sink in.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:02 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by ZachnElli View Post
I have an inground pool and I'm an insurance agent. There is absolutely no extra premium, let alone "extra hefty premium" for having a pool.
There is in my policy.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
That wasn't it, but it had a very similar feel so I feel pretty good it was 20/20. The kids in the one I saw were school age, not toddlers. I would expect toddlers reaction to Eddie The Eagle (or anything similar) to be pretty much non existent. They're too young for it to sink in.
It says here: http://articles.mcall.com/1999-05-21...gun-touch-guns

that the children in that episode were 4 to 8, so not toddlers and including the age of the children in the OP's birthday party scenario.

Here's a related article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...900755_pf.html

It says that 22% of children living in houses with guns report playing with the guns, and that there isn't a statistical difference between the likelihood of a 5 year old, and a 14 year old accessing a gun that's kept in the house.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:09 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
There is in my policy.
What company? I work in an independent office and we are licensed in all but 2 states. There is a good chance I could look it up. None of the 34 companies we use charge extra for a pool. None. This includes Nationwide, Progressive, Safeco, Travelers, Columbia out of Missouri (but they are in the process dropping all homeowners policies), etc.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Mickey'snewestfan View Post
It says here: http://articles.mcall.com/1999-05-21...gun-touch-guns

that the children in that episode were 4 to 8, so not toddlers and including the age of the children in the OP's birthday party scenario.
Like I said before, the episode we saw came out VERY much in favor of the safety program (almost to the point of being an infomercial). I also seem to recall a much smaller percentage of the kids from all groups touching the guns. Seems like it was less than 1 in 5 overall (IIRC). So, probably not the same episode.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:15 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Gumbo4x4 View Post
That wasn't it, but it had a very similar feel so I feel pretty good it was 20/20. The kids in the one I saw were school age, not toddlers. I would expect toddlers reaction to Eddie The Eagle (or anything similar) to be pretty much non existent. They're too young for it to sink in.
I saw the same thing, they were like 8? But as I recall, they picked up the guns, relentlessly. The parents predicted they wouldn't, they did.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:17 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by ZachnElli View Post
What company? I work in an independent office and we are licensed in all but 2 states. There is a good chance I could look it up. None of the 34 companies we use charge extra for a pool. None. This includes Nationwide, Progressive, Safeco, Travelers, Columbia out of Missouri (but they are in the process dropping all homeowners policies), etc.
American National - we actually have Travelers now & DW handled that policy. But, when we signed up for AN, the pool (which we didn't have at that time - we have one now) was a red flag as was certain breeds of dogs (also not an issue for us). Both impacted the liability portion. With the pool, I particularly remember our guy making a big stink about a fence. There were probably some other things, but the pool & dog are the ones I remember.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:06 AM   #119
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[QUOTE=ZachnElli;46914264]I have an inground pool and I'm an insurance agent. There is absolutely no extra premium, let alone "extra hefty premium" for having a pool.[/QUOTE

Is there for having guns?
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:40 AM   #120
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[QUOTE=donaldlovesdaisy;46915344]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachnElli View Post
I have an inground pool and I'm an insurance agent. There is absolutely no extra premium, let alone "extra hefty premium" for having a pool.[/QUOTE

Is there for having guns?
I've never been asked if I had guns by any insurance agent.
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