Resale restrictions - when announced in the past?

[JKMJ441724]

Originally Posted by DebbieB

If someone buys resale instead of direct, there is no money in that for DVC.

Not trying to start an argument, honestly not understanding the logic.

SOMEONE bought it originally from Disney. They already got their profit on the original sale. So are you saying that Disney should buy them all back on ROFR and then sell them to new "original" owners?

I'm thinking about your answer as I type. I think we are coming at it from different sides. I think I see where you are coming from. There are a finite number of buyers and Disney wants them coming straight to them. But looking at it like that, once you've bought in, you are stuck. You would never be able to sell.

[bighoo93]

Originally Posted by DebbieB

DVC doesn't care about money made in the parks, that's not their area. They are trying to sell their newly built properties, that's where their profit is on Disney's balance sheet. They paid for construction, they need to get it back plus a profit. If someone buys resale instead of direct, there is no money in that for DVC.

Of course not, because DVC/DVD doesn't own the property. They've already received their profit from the original sale. The secondary resale market doesn't hit their P&L at all. There is an unstated (and to my knowledge, never supported or quantified with actual, real data) that sales in the secondary market are direct losses from Disney revenue. Unless someone has some data to support this, I think we should be cautious in our conclusions about the magnitude of this impact and what DVD cares about. DVD is wholly owned by Disney, so a fair assumption would be that they serve the company, and do not just go about their own ways to maximize their own bottom line without regard to the company as a whole.

[GOOFY D]

Originally Posted by Missyrose

And for the record, there's no guarantee they grandfather in previous resale contracts. They did it once, but that doesn't mean they'll do it again.

Not sure how they would not grandfather. To not do so would be to significantly dimish the value of something someone already purchases (after the fact). Would seem they would want to avoid that situation as much as possible.

[GOOFY D]

Originally Posted by JKMJ441724

uh, what?

I have not heard that. I'm not actively looking to add-on but always have it in the back of my mind.

Tell me more about this rumor. I may use it to push my husband into taking the plunge.

I don't really see how disney loses when someone buys resale. The ORIGINAL points came directly from Disney somewhere down the line, no matter how often it has been sold or re-sold. Then they have someone staying at their hotel - PROBABLY going to the parks, buying food and souvenirs and drinks. I know making money on the room is important to Disney but they still have a ton of ancillary income after the sale.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3028134

[DebbieB]

Originally Posted by JKMJ441724

Not trying to start an argument, honestly not understanding the logic.

SOMEONE bought it originally from Disney. They already got their profit on the original sale. So are you saying that Disney should buy them all back on ROFR and then sell them to new "original" owners?

I'm thinking about your answer as I type. I think we are coming at it from different sides. I think I see where you are coming from. But looking at it like that, once you've bought in, you are stuck. You would never be able to sell.

If there is a family that is new to considering DVC, they want them to buy one of the new properties direct, not buy a resale where they (DVC) don't make any money. They don't care if the existing member loses alot of money when they try to sell. They can also scoop up low ROFR's and sell them at the direct price and make a profit on those. I'm not sure with closing and administrative costs what the cutoff is for them to make money on a ROFR, it also depends on the resort, if they will be able to sell direct. It's a lose for them if a new member buys resale, they lost a direct sale.

[bighoo93]

Originally Posted by DebbieB

If there is a family that is new to considering DVC, they want them to buy one of the new properties direct, not buy a resale where they (DVC) don't make any money. They don't care if the existing member loses alot of money when they try to sell. They can also scoop up low ROFR's and sell them at the direct price and make a profit on those. I'm not sure with closing and administrative costs what the cutoff is for them to make money on a ROFR, it also depends on the resort, if they will be able to sell direct. It's a lose for them if a new member buys resale, they lost a direct sale.

Do you know any of this to be true for certain? I'm asking because I have been trying to find some actual detailed data and information about DVD and have not been able to find any.

[JKMJ441724]

Originally Posted by DebbieB

If there is a family that is new to considering DVC, they want them to buy one of the new properties direct, not buy a resale where they (DVC) don't make any money. They don't care if the existing member loses alot of money when they try to sell. They can also scoop up low ROFR's and sell them at the direct price and make a profit on those. I'm not sure with closing and administrative costs what the cutoff is for them to make money on a ROFR, it also depends on the resort, if they will be able to sell direct. It's a lose for them if a new member buys resale, they lost a direct sale.

I think I edited as you typed your answer. I finally "got it" that you were saying disney lost that customer. I was looking at it that Disney already got their profit from the FIRST owner and that any sell after that on that contract did not effect them.

[chalee94]

Originally Posted by JKMJ441724

...once you've bought in, you are stuck. You would never be able to sell.

this is part of what makes timeshares complicated.

if you buy and own DVC, you are their customer and they (in my experience) treat you extremely well.

if your circumstances change and you need to sell, though, you are competing with their sales team for that buyer's dollars...and when things get adversarial between you and the mouse, the mouse typically wins. if that means you cannot pass along the same options you currently have as an owner to the new buyer, so be it.

disney was different (at least they acted differently) for a long time, but things have changed. and for me, that makes me a lot more careful in recommending DVC.

[bighoo93]

Originally Posted by chalee94

this is part of what makes timeshares complicated.

if you buy and own DVC, you are their customer and they (in my experience) treat you extremely well.

if your circumstances change and you need to sell, though, you are competing with their sales team for that customer's dollars...and when things get adversarial between you and the mouse, the mouse typically wins. if that means you cannot pass along the same options you currently have as an owner to the new buyer, so be it.

disney was different (at least they acted differently) for a long time, but things have changed. and for me, that makes me a lot more careful in recommending DVC.

If they decimate the resale value of your membership, that is something they are doing directly to their customer. There is no way around that. Maybe they'll do it, but they can't rationalize that they aren't doing it to their customers. If you have to sell your DVC points in the future for some unanticipated need, you are screwed, and Disney will have done it to you. That destruction of resale value happened when (or before) you were a customer.

[Missyrose]

Originally Posted by bighoo93

If they decimate the resale value of your membership, that is something they are doing directly to their customer. There is no way around that. Maybe they'll do it, but they can't rationalize that they aren't doing it to their customers. If you have to sell your DVC points in the future for some unanticipated need, you are screwed, and Disney will have done it to you. That destruction of resale value happened when (or before) you were a customer.

You keep arguing Disney wouldn't screw their customers, but I think what PP was trying to say is that the old DVC probably wouldn't screw their customers. But DVC has become more like other timeshares and a typical timeshare companies have no problem screwing their customers. The argument "that isn't fair" won't hold much weight with DVC.

[bighoo93]

Originally Posted by Missyrose

You keep arguing Disney wouldn't screw their customers, but I think what PP was trying to say is that the old DVC probably wouldn't screw their customers. But DVC has become more like other timeshares and a typical timeshare companies have no problem screwing their customers. The argument "that isn't fair" won't hold much weight with DVC.

Actually in that post I was just saying that Disney won't be able to pass off the notion that they aren't screwing their customer if they destroy resale value.

It is my belief that Disney won't screw their customers, but I don't know that for sure. I acknowledge that it is possible.

The reason I believe they will be different is that DVC is operated for The Walt Disney Company, which has a much more valuable brand than other timeshares have. I don't believe they will jeopardize that. DVD serves The Walt Disney Company, it is not an end to itself.

It would really be helpful to have specific financial and performance information from DVD. Speculation about what they "need" to do should be based on, among other things, their performance, how it would impact Disney's $42 billion in revenue, and whether that is worth the risk to the brand.

[chalee94]

Originally Posted by bighoo93

Actually in that post I was just saying that Disney won't be able to pass off the notion that they aren't screwing their customer if they destroy resale value.

other timeshare companies do it. i think you are overestimating the real outcry if changes happen.

the change in 2011 wasn't a big issue in itself - there was no loss of value IMO (and i was interested in dean's comments about DVC trying to limit cruise,etc. trades due to the high cost of the program itself rather than purely to discourage resales).

but as the quote below shows, if you expect a continuing "disney difference" in the way DVC owners are treated on the way out...i think that's optimistic.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...rs-time-shares

[DVC]spokeswoman Diane Hancock...added that the change aligns Disney with other time-share operators who impose similar restrictions on resales.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by JKMJ441724

uh, what?

I have not heard that. I'm not actively looking to add-on but always have it in the back of my mind.

Tell me more about this rumor. I may use it to push my husband into taking the plunge.

I don't really see how disney loses when someone buys resale. The ORIGINAL points came directly from Disney somewhere down the line, no matter how often it has been sold or re-sold. Then they have someone staying at their hotel - PROBABLY going to the parks, buying food and souvenirs and drinks. I know making money on the room is important to Disney but they still have a ton of ancillary income after the sale.

Legally it's my opinion that this is not possible related to a division of resale vs retail for the current resorts. However, Disney loses a potential retail sale every time someone buys resale.

But looking at it like that, once you've bought in, you are stuck. You would never be able to sell.

This would be their ideal situation, to be able to sell and have no competition at all. Think of timeshares like new cars only worse and subtract some more and you'll still over value them.

Originally Posted by GOOFY D

Not sure how they would not grandfather. To not do so would be to significantly dimish the value of something someone already purchases (after the fact). Would seem they would want to avoid that situation as much as possible.

Their ideal would be to decrease your value to nothing and preserve theirs. It'll never be 100% but this would be their goal. What they want is the perception of value but no competition. Realistically they can't be overly aggressive in this area without creating a bad rep that will affect sales, it's a balance but it's about the sales only.

Originally Posted by Missyrose

And for the record, there's no guarantee they grandfather in previous resale contracts. They did it once, but that doesn't mean they'll do it again.

True but even more aggressive companies almost always have done so. I could easily see them go back to the March 2011 date as a cutoff rather than having multiple dates with multiple versions. I think it's a very safe bet to assume that negative changes won't be retroactive on this subject to those currently grandfathered. What they could do would be to create a VIP system which might negatively affect all owners who don't qualify.

Originally Posted by bighoo93

Do you know any of this to be true for certain? I'm asking because I have been trying to find some actual detailed data and information about DVD and have not been able to find any.

It's all true other than the issue that they can make much money on ROFR, they really can't make much for most situations.

Originally Posted by bighoo93

If they decimate the resale value of your membership, that is something they are doing directly to their customer. There is no way around that. Maybe they'll do it, but they can't rationalize that they aren't doing it to their customers. If you have to sell your DVC points in the future for some unanticipated need, you are screwed, and Disney will have done it to you. That destruction of resale value happened when (or before) you were a customer.

I think this is a fundamental point. IMO the buyer did it to themselves by deciding to buy and take the risk. They either knew or should have known there were many risks including the possibility they couldn't sell or would lose a lot when they did. This is simply the nature of timeshares, many of which sell for tens of thousands and can be bought for a penny resale.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by chalee94

but as the quote below shows, if you expect a continuing "disney difference" in the way DVC owners are treated on the way out...i think that's optimistic.

While I know many here find it blasphemous, I simply find DVC to be just another good timeshare in a place I like to go. It wasn't ever as nice or friendly or different as many seemed to think when they drank the Kool-aide and it's not as bad as some have wanted to make out the last couple of years. It has been interested to see the true believers turn in to the jilted lover mentality.

[lilpooh108]

To the OP---as someone else posted they gave about 7 weeks notice last time prior to the restrictions.

HOWEVER, due to the flurry of resale activity prior to the restrictions being enforced it took us multiple offers and 1 failed contract to finally get what we want (and with insane amounts of checking listings the MINUTE it was posted). So you get some time, but it was relatively hard for us (and for my brother, who bought in at that time) to get a resale contract that we wanted, at the price that was acceptable to us.