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Old 12-10-2012, 08:41 AM   #16
Gianna'sPapa
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Originally Posted by MolonLabe View Post
I do have to wonder about the video aspect Papa.

My G11 takes great HD video, focus' pretty well too.

Even with the STM lens, the T4i isn't as fast on focus. Good picture when in focus though.

Strange indeed, the Ipad thing made me laugh. I saw dozens of people each day using an Ipad to take pictures.
Video is another marketing tool. Whether its good or bad, whether they include it on a DSLR or not makes little difference to me. I have never taken the time or given the effort to learn the nuances of video. Once I get into something, I have tendency to push it all the way to become (being a Marine please forgive me for borrowing an Army term ) the best that I can be! I have enough trouble with still photography without attempting to add video to my skillset! The manufacturers, as a previous poster stated, are flooding the market with relatively inexpensive, good DSLR's. Look at the Ashton Kutcher Nikon commercials. They tout the ease of shooting lowlight moving objects. We all know that those can be some of the more difficult shots. Put your camera on automatic or a scene mode and you to can shoot like the pros. I have yet to see this, but in short time I venture I will. I'm waiting to see someone using a Nikon D600 full frame camera with a ridiculously expensive lens shooting in fully automatic with no clue what the photographic triangle means!! Its going to happen. More power to them. Someone may catch the bug and become a great photographer. My only concern is as someone stated that because of their lack of knowledge of etiquette it may lead to restrictions.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:50 AM   #17
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The manufacturers are catering to the average folks. They need to sell cameras and accessories. Did you ever see a scene mode on a film slr? They dummy up the cameras. Colors is another issue because folks can buy a P & S in a multitude of colors. They're asking why can't I get my DSLR in colors. Its all about the market. I am convinced (I could be wrong) that's why we have video on DSLR's. It started in the P & S market and then was extended to DSLR's. The novices moving up to the 'big' camera wanted the same options that were available on their P & S. For me, if video was never on a DSLR, I would never miss it. Its all about what and how many cameras the manufacturer can sell.
I think it is totally about the bottom line monetarily. To me it was really evident Nikon was going after a different segment of the market, one that had not previously been DSLR users, when they got Ashton Kutcher to represent the D40 line on launch. Because really, if Kelso from That 70's Show can use it anyone can, right? It put the cameras mentally within reach of the point and shoot set in terms of usability.

Although they did make film SLR's with a few auto scene modes. My Rebel G has a few, though not as many as today's entry level DSLR's seem to have. It was also a camera marketed to the casual shooter, with the ads that used Andre Agassi taking pictures while he played tennis.

edited to add... LOLOL I was typing my response when you were and we both referenced Ashton Kutcher for the same reason. Too funny.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:16 AM   #18
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As long as it keeps people from using their ipad as a camera I don't care.
Its not about the quality of the photo its about taking it and getting quickly uploaded to show the world what you are doing right that second. That seems to be whats important..regardless if its super grainy or under/over exposed. Now I have an iPhone 4S and actually it does take decent outside photos in good light, but inside with poor lighting...not so much.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:05 PM   #19
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With some exceptions. You can tell the folks who don't know what they are doing when they "bird dog" the LCD review after every shot they take.

I will use the LCD to check exposure on 1 or 2 shots for an environment. But I have review turned off and can o hours without looking at the pix in my camera
Okay, I can't be the only one who does this. And though far from an expert photog, I am also not completely clueless. There are many more talented people on this board, but I do know the photographic triangle, how to use the camera on manual, how to use a tripod for long exposures, etc. Still like to check through the pics on the LCD screen often.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:09 PM   #20
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edited to add... LOLOL I was typing my response when you were and we both referenced Ashton Kutcher for the same reason. Too funny.
That is pretty funny, but unfortunately its so true. I did learn something. I never knew Nikon put scene modes on a film camera. My brand, Pentax, even today doesn't offer scene modes on its capture mode dial.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:07 PM   #21
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And 10+ years before Nikon and Ashton, there was Canon and Andre Agassi:
http://www.epinions.com/review/elec_...98E-prod1?sb=1


But yes, in July, I noticed a ton of Canon neck straps with DSLr's hanging from them.

What drives me crazy about the DSLr "craze" is how it filters down to the PnS world ...people that think they need a Bridge style camera to get better pictures, when really an enthusiast camera like the s100 would take better pictures for their needs.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #22
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Okay, I can't be the only one who does this. And though far from an expert photog, I am also not completely clueless. There are many more talented people on this board, but I do know the photographic triangle, how to use the camera on manual, how to use a tripod for long exposures, etc. Still like to check through the pics on the LCD screen often.
I like to check pics on the screen, too. I don't do it after every shot, but usually after I've taken a shot or two in one location just to make sure that everything is working with lighting/composition/etc. This is because I always end up coming home with photos where I'm like, "Dang - if I would've changed X, this photo could be so much better!" And the exceptionally devastating case is when the photo isn't salvagable with post processing. Once, I had been shooting late at night at WDW, and I had bumped up the ISO really high. The next day, we headed to Port Canaveral for our cruise, and it was wonderfully sunny outside... and I had forgotten to turn down the ISO... so all of my photos had ridiculous high ISO noise and many were overexposed. Had I only taken the time to look at a few photos on the LCD screen, I would've realized my mistake sooner!
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by hakepb View Post
And 10+ years before Nikon and Ashton, there was Canon and Andre Agassi:
http://www.epinions.com/review/elec_...98E-prod1?sb=1


But yes, in July, I noticed a ton of Canon neck straps with DSLr's hanging from them.

What drives me crazy about the DSLr "craze" is how it filters down to the PnS world ...people that think they need a Bridge style camera to get better pictures, when really an enthusiast camera like the s100 would take better pictures for their needs.
The Agassi ads started a little longer ago than that. They used Agassi when they launched the Rebel line in 1990. The Rebel G in that link actually came out in '96, which is when I got mine.

I was just looking back at the commercials and the tagline "image is everything" and that really still sums up a mentality that has carried over to DSLR's today. It doesn't matter if you really know how to use the camera, you'll look like you know what you're doing by holding the camera. It worked for Canon because the Rebel was the most popular 35mm SLR for a long time, as well as the most popular DSLR when DSLR's first started to become something non-pros could afford.

And my old Pentax Sv has no scene modes either. It doesn't even have a light meter built in and the only mode is manual.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:52 PM   #24
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]For me, if video was never on a DSLR, I would never miss it. .
I have never used my video outside of a 30second clip just to make sure it works.

But... if i ever get back into video again, a good DSLR would make a fine camera for it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:45 PM   #25
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Remember, the reason film cameras didn't have scene modes, had nothing to do with the consumers they were trying to attract --- it is more about the technology available. My last film SLR, a Minolta Maxxum, did have some limited scene modes.
A 2012 dSLR has a computer inside it more powerful than the full size home computers that were on the market in the time of most film SLRs, which allows for more powerful scene modes, photo enhancement modes, in-camera post processing, etc. I'm sure a 2012 dSLR has a computer inside it, far more powerful than a Commodore 64.

So it's chicken/egg.. which came first.
Are the camera manufacturers adding easy shooting modes to cameras, in order to attract the broader population.
Or, is the broader population merely being attracted to dSLRs, because the evolution of technology is causing more easy shooting modes to be added.

I'd say it's probably a combination of both.

And I consider myself as having a fair amount of photography knowledge, and I still resort to scene modes sometimes, just for quick ease. (Especially to get a quickie HDR image without the need for post processing, or using the auto-fast-burst rate, which is simpler and faster than changing the drive and doing more manually).
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:24 PM   #26
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havoc315 that's a good point. But auto exposure technology has been around since at least the mid 1960's.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:37 PM   #27
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Remember, the reason film cameras didn't have scene modes, had nothing to do with the consumers they were trying to attract --- it is more about the technology available. My last film SLR, a Minolta Maxxum, did have some limited scene modes.
A 2012 dSLR has a computer inside it more powerful than the full size home computers that were on the market in the time of most film SLRs, which allows for more powerful scene modes, photo enhancement modes, in-camera post processing, etc. I'm sure a 2012 dSLR has a computer inside it, far more powerful than a Commodore 64.

So it's chicken/egg.. which came first.
Are the camera manufacturers adding easy shooting modes to cameras, in order to attract the broader population.
Or, is the broader population merely being attracted to dSLRs, because the evolution of technology is causing more easy shooting modes to be added.

I'd say it's probably a combination of both.

And I consider myself as having a fair amount of photography knowledge, and I still resort to scene modes sometimes, just for quick ease. (Especially to get a quickie HDR image without the need for post processing, or using the auto-fast-burst rate, which is simpler and faster than changing the drive and doing more manually).
The difference is, because of your knowledge, you know when to choose a scene mode to get the desired effect your looking for. I have no problems whatsoever with folks using any scene modes, DSLR's or any camera. The proliferation of DSLR's is a double edged sword. When Feld Entertainment (owner of Disney on Ice and the Circus) was restricting cameras at their venues, I contacted them to get a clarification. Based on the number of people using DSLR's today, they changed their policy that as long as the images were for personal use you could bring pretty much anything you wanted. On the flipside, I've already seen some examples of camera "rudeness". I'm hoping these were isolated incidents and don't cause issues for the future. The last thing we want is for Disney to start placing restrictions on camera use.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:41 PM   #28
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havoc315 that's a good point. But auto exposure technology has been around since at least the mid 1960's.
Yes, and every film SLR I owned, had basic auto exposure technology. (ahh... I remember how fast it felt to shoot with ISO 400 film instead of 100-- never imagined I would own a camera with and effective ISO of 25,600).

A lot has changed.
Thinking to the 70's and 80's.... You had 1 home telephone. Possibly 1 home computer (at least by the late 80's). If you were *into* photography, you might have a SLR. The family might own 1 or 2 cameras at most. Polaroid cameras were for instant fun. Many people relied on regular trips to Sears for good quality family portraits.

By the late 80's, early 90's... Definitely had a camera in the household. Some business people who needed them, started to get cell phones, pagers, etc. You started to get some very early basic digital cameras, but they were far off in quality from SLRs. They were just for some fun snap shots. Most people who really liked photography, were still using film cameras. And every pharmacy had a 1-hour photo for quick development.

Fast forward another 10-20 years -- Instead of a family of 4 having 1 home phone line, that family of 4 may have 4-5 phones. Everyone has their own phone, with a built in digital camera. Every household has multiple computers -- desktops, laptops, tablets. Decent quality digital cameras have become so cheap and easy to use, that they are prolific. People can get decent portraits without having to pay a Sears semi-pro. Photo results are instant. And more people view and share their photos online, instead of actually printing them.

Given this evolution, it's not surprising to see more people gravitate to dSLR.

And I have no problem with someone choosing to use a dSLR with minimal knowledge. Their results will still usually be better than a point and shoot.

I DO have a problem when people allow their ignorance to turn into bad photography manners -- such as not turning off the flash in a Disney dark ride.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #29
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The difference is, because of your knowledge, you know when to choose a scene mode to get the desired effect your looking for. I have no problems whatsoever with folks using any scene modes, DSLR's or any camera. The proliferation of DSLR's is a double edged sword.
Agree with that. As more people are drawn to photography, it increased the demand, and more companies will compete and invest in innovative products. Thus improving photography for all of us. The advancements in digital photography over the last 5-10 years, are simply amazing.

And a percentage of the new people drawn into photography, will take the time to really learn the craft. Again, good for all of us.

On the downside, the craft can get watered down. People lose respect for high level professional photography, as they think, "Uncle Joe has a digital SLR, he can shoot the party as well as a professional"...
And as said by others, there are people who are just happy with any reasonably clear image, regardless of mediocre composition, blown highlights, poor bokeh -- so its easy to falsely conclude that the pictures by Uncle Joe are just as good as a pro.
Even my DW-- hates "scenery" pics -- Her primary concern is whether everyone is smiling nicely in the picture.
So it's easy to lose appreciation for the craft. I know professional and semi-professional photographers who are struggling or who have left the industry, as the market for their services has shrunk in the last 10 years.

But, I think the pros outweigh the cons. 30 years ago, you had to be a computer "geek" to really own and use a computer. Technology advanced, computers became prolific... to the point where everyone is using them for all sorts of things. And while the computer "geek" may claim he/she misses DOS, I think they have benefited from the advancement in the technology.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:07 PM   #30
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I have fond memories of spending hours typing code into my Atari computer in Basic back in the early 80's just to play a simple game. Only to loose it all when I turned it off because I had no method to save it.

But more to my point.. the technology has been there. It wasn't until camera makers decided to market it to casual photographers (like with the 35mm Rebel) that it started to change who was using SLR cameras. The instant gratification of digital did increase the use of cameras in general exponentially. But you can look back at many of the innovations in photography and see this kind of thing over and over. Go way back to the first Kodak cameras that took photography out of the hands of the "professionals" and put it in the hands of consumers. "You push the button we do the rest". DSLR's are just the current thing. And soon enough the next big thing will come along.
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