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Old 12-05-2012, 03:54 PM   #121
luvmy3
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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post

Is everyone's objection actually to the shot or just to be told that its the law for this age child in NJ?
I don't object to the vaccine, I object to NJ passing a law that requires it for pre-school (regardless if pre-school is not mandatory). If the school itself made that rule, fine.
I object to the fact that one can have religious exemptions, yet one isn't allowed to be exempt because of their personal beliefs. Now, if the goal is really to protect all the children then there would be no allowance for religious reasons, there would be no exemptions allowed for anyone, for the protection of all. If they can "afford" to not force some people to get it, then they can afford to not force all.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:01 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by LisaInNc View Post
I am going to be in the minority here but reading that people think that the OP should invoke religious reasons when she has none is disturbing to me.

Just lie and get what you want?

I live a life with my child that she NEVER sees me lie. I don't lie to her school I don't lie in my regular life. I realize that the OP has a child in preschool but it's just wrong to lie like that. I agree that she has the right not to immunize her daughter but there is a right and a wrong way to handle things.

The only exception is for gifts and things like Santa and Mickey Mouse being real. If she looks me in the eye tonight and asks me if bought her an AG doll for Christmas I am going to tell her no. We have that agreement in this house. Tell the truth at all costs but have fun with Christmas surprises!
Lisa
So it's ok to lie for fun then? But not for health reasons like having to get a flu shot vaccine or else being forced to leave the child's preschool. Aren't you lying to get what you want, that "want" being that your child is having Christmas fun? You can't have it both ways right?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:03 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post
We are talking about children in preschool here and I assume that the rule applies to children in childcare in NJ also.

Children tend to spread the flu (and other illnesses) very easily and very quickly. The danger comes when a child is not immunized and spreads the flu to other children that are not able to be immunized due to honest medical issues. If that can be prevented why not do so?

Is everyone's objection actually to the shot or just to be told that its the law for this age child in NJ?

Y'all sound like the mom whose child I had in preschool. Every day she brought the child donuts for breakfast. Every day I put them back in the child's bag. (Regulations stipulate that no outside food can be brought in the center except in the case of extreme food allergies). Finally, the mom brought the child in during breakfast and spread out all the donuts on the table. I told her that she could not eat them there that she would need to make sure her child finished the donuts before arriving at preschool. She ranted and raved that she had every right to feed her child what she chose.

I simply stated to her, "yes ma'm you do but not here in this school. If you can't abide by that rule, you also have every right to find another preschool" And I made sure my tone let her know that she would be looking for one very soon if she didn't stop. Funny thing, we never saw those flipping donuts again.

She didn't care about her "right to feed her child whatever she wanted", she just didn't want to be told no. That's what a lot of you sound like you are saying--you don't really care if your child gets the flu shot or not; you just don't want to told what the rule is.


I can only speak for me. I do care what shots my kids get. My dh and I make the decisions based on what we know is best for them. Not some random stranger at school. Oh- and since you are asking- I am generally a rule follower but no, nobody will tell me what to put inside my child's body.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaInNc View Post
I am going to be in the minority here but reading that people think that the OP should invoke religious reasons when she has none is disturbing to me.

Just lie and get what you want?

I live a life with my child that she NEVER sees me lie. I don't lie to her school I don't lie in my regular life. I realize that the OP has a child in preschool but it's just wrong to lie like that. I agree that she has the right not to immunize her daughter but there is a right and a wrong way to handle things.

The only exception is for gifts and things like Santa and Mickey Mouse being real. If she looks me in the eye tonight and asks me if bought her an AG doll for Christmas I am going to tell her no.

We have that agreement in this house. Tell the truth at all costs but have fun with Christmas surprises!
Lisa
So it is disturbing to lie to protect the rights of my child but okay for the exceptions you have listed?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:03 PM   #124
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It's interesting to me that people are allowed to invoke a religious objection to some laws and not others.

I occasionally worship at the Church of Speed. If I am stopped for trying to drive faster than the speed of sound and about to be ticketed I am going to tell the officer that I want a waiver!
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:06 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post
We are talking about children in preschool here and I assume that the rule applies to children in childcare in NJ also.

Children tend to spread the flu (and other illnesses) very easily and very quickly. The danger comes when a child is not immunized and spreads the flu to other children that are not able to be immunized due to honest medical issues. If that can be prevented why not do so?
Will those children never be exposed to children from or in another state or other children who cannot get a vaccine but get the flu? I hate they can't for whatever reason get vaccinated (assuming their parents even wanted it) but that is not someone else's responsibility. Hopefully, those kids get to go to WDW, but people from other countries may not vaccinate and many from the US don't. At what point, do we mandate everyone else's behavior? I have been vaccinated, but DD hasn't. My immune system stinks, hers doesn't. I don't make her just because my system stinks. DH has to because of his job. It is mandated for him to continue working.

We had an older teen with leukemia at our church. She had a weak immune system. When the doctor allowed it, she came to church with a surgical mask on. We take communion every week. She and her family didn't demand that
stop so she would be at higher risk. The church did provide separate wafers instead of a few large pieces of bread to break off. But, they provided BOTH. I'm sure there were germs even on the plates. Would you request that the rest of the members not have communion because she could get sick?

Should restaurants not have peanuts at all just in case someone with an allergy walks in? If an allergic reaction can be prevented, why not do it? I know it was said in reference to the flu vaccine, but isn't it the same idea?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by DizBelle View Post
How many of those people got the flu from someone that would not have gotten it had they or the people they come in contact with been vaccinated?

Example - what if your child doesn't get the vaccine and gets the flu, then gives it to someone else, who then gives it to someone with a compromised immune system and ends up hospitalized and dies. If your child had gotten the vaccine, that person would have never died. Your child got over the flu and is fine. The person they gave it to got over it and is fine. That that person (or people) down the line did not and lost their life.

This is NOT a far-fetched scenario and I'm sure it's happened before. There are not just and individual effects. There are also community effects.
Then make it the law in every state. If it is so terrible that you can just catch it and those of us out there are just walking around spreading the germ like the black plague, then make it mandatory for everyone. Again, I have 3 kids that have gone through preschool, and many friends and none of them have gotten the flu. Sorry, but I didn't kill anyone by not getting the vaccine. Hey why don't we make it mandatory for everyone to have HIV testing before sex or marriage, because God knows there are lots of people out there waling around with that. And no amount of hand washing will help you from that.

And as another pp just stated, shoudl we make them get the flu vaccine before they go to WDW or any other place outside of NJ?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:12 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaInNc View Post
I am going to be in the minority here but reading that people think that the OP should invoke religious reasons when she has none is disturbing to me.

Just lie and get what you want?

I live a life with my child that she NEVER sees me lie. I don't lie to her school I don't lie in my regular life. I realize that the OP has a child in preschool but it's just wrong to lie like that. I agree that she has the right not to immunize her daughter but there is a right and a wrong way to handle things.

The only exception is for gifts and things like Santa and Mickey Mouse being real. If she looks me in the eye tonight and asks me if bought her an AG doll for Christmas I am going to tell her no.


We have that agreement in this house. Tell the truth at all costs but have fun with Christmas surprises!

Lisa
My religious belief says it is up to me to raise my child. If I believe she should not be vaccinated, I have no problem in saying I'm against it and invoking my religious right maybe that's a better way of stating it.

A lie is a lie is a lie. I told my daughter and stepson there was a Santa Claus but it is still a lie even if it's a fun lie. It's no different than telling my best friend she doesn't look a day over 25 or telling my DH that he looks just like Gerard Butler.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:13 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Mouse House Mama View Post
So it is disturbing to lie to protect the rights of my child but okay for the exceptions you have listed?
I guess its wrong to lie to avoid your child being injected with chemicals, but its okay to lie to avoid them finding out Mickey isn't real. Only on the DIS
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:15 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmy3 View Post
I guess its wrong to lie to avoid your child being injected with chemicals, but its okay to lie to avoid them finding out Mickey isn't real. Only on the DIS
I know, right?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:15 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by LisaInNc View Post
I am going to be in the minority here but reading that people think that the OP should invoke religious reasons when she has none is disturbing to me.

Just lie and get what you want?

I live a life with my child that she NEVER sees me lie. I don't lie to her school I don't lie in my regular life. I realize that the OP has a child in preschool but it's just wrong to lie like that. I agree that she has the right not to immunize her daughter but there is a right and a wrong way to handle things.

The only exception is for gifts and things like Santa and Mickey Mouse being real. If she looks me in the eye tonight and asks me if bought her an AG doll for Christmas I am going to tell her no.

We have that agreement in this house. Tell the truth at all costs but have fun with Christmas surprises!
Lisa
If I had to lie to protect my child, you better darn sure believe I would do it. And as far as I was concerned, I would lie to protect my kid from the flu shot, if I felt like the op did.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:16 PM   #131
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I'm not particularly in favor of mandated flu vaccines for any age group but NJ is the most densely populated state in the nation and has a huge immigrant population. I can totally understand why NJ has mandated the law. I don't have a preschooler anymore but if that's the law, I would follow it unless my son (and not another sibling) had had a SERIOUS reaction to the flue shot...not a minor fever.

I only had the flu once - my son came down with it as a preschooler. His entire class was wiped out - he was one of the last to contract it and honestly, it was a doozy. I had never had it before and I've never had it since...and I wouldn't wish the flu on my worst enemy.
Then WDW should require it before admission to the parks.


I've had the flu followed the next year by H1N1. It stunk! I agree. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Well. close to anyone.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:24 PM   #132
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Your state and school must be very liberal. That would NEVER fly in my district.
Liberal state, yes, I live in CT.
Liberal school, no, my kids attend a very traditional catholic school. But for full disclosure the school nurse that had me sign the exemption was the nurse at the kids public school, she ended up following us to the new school.

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:27 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Mouse House Mama View Post
[/B]

I can only speak for me. I do care what shots my kids get. My dh and I make the decisions based on what we know is best for them. Not some random stranger at school. Oh- and since you are asking- I am generally a rule follower but no, nobody will tell me what to put inside my child's body.




So it is disturbing to lie to protect the rights of my child but okay for the exceptions you have listed?
.

I think it was two years ago that public schools here provided the vaccines during the school day. Basically, your child got it if you didn't sign a waiver. A friend signed a waiver and stated medical reason, and her daughter was still taken to the nurse for the vaccine. Child (teen) told nurse from DHS she wasn't supposed to get it. The girl had a medical reason, but I don't remember what it was. It seems like she was on a medication that was contraindicated. It got really ugly because they gave it to her anyway. She had to go to the hospital. DHS tried to claim they didn't know. The school district or DHS ended up paying hospital visit. I'm going to have to call her now and see what it was. Anyway, this is what happened at an AR school when the state and the district decided they were smarter than mom.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:29 PM   #134
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If I had to lie to protect my child, you better darn sure believe I would do it. And as far as I was concerned, I would lie to protect my kid from the flu shot, if I felt like the op did.
So would I, in a heartbeat. It's like the question of when people were hiding Jewish folks in their homes and if the Germans came knocking, would you lie to protect the people in danger? I would in that scenario, without a doubt.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:37 PM   #135
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Then make it the law in every state. If it is so terrible that you can just catch it and those of us out there are just walking around spreading the germ like the black plague, then make it mandatory for everyone. Again, I have 3 kids that have gone through preschool, and many friends and none of them have gotten the flu. Sorry, but I didn't kill anyone by not getting the vaccine. Hey why don't we make it mandatory for everyone to have HIV testing before sex or marriage, because God knows there are lots of people out there waling around with that. And no amount of hand washing will help you from that.

And as another pp just stated, shoudl we make them get the flu vaccine before they go to WDW or any other place outside of NJ?

It's kind of like Chicken Pox. The director of DD's preschool called me to tell me another child in her class had it so she had to notify the parents. I asked if she could make sure DD hugged the other child goodbye before she left the school. . Truly, I was glad she was exposed before kindergarten. DD did get them, BTW. Now, 16 years later, her friends who were vaccinated are getting revaccinated. One got actual chicken pox and felt worse than DD did at 4. It was much harder on her.
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