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Old 12-05-2012, 12:48 PM   #91
mickeyfan9194
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I guess I would much rather my child get the flu shot than to suffer the symptoms of the flu, or to pass it on to someone else that may have a weakened immune system. If this particular child hasn't has a reaction to it before, why would you think she might?

My children rarely get colds and have never had the flu, but why take chances if it can be prevented?
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #92
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[QUOTE=badblackpug;46860365]
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Originally Posted by Mouse House Mama View Post

They certainly are letting the OP make her own healthcare decisions. She is more than free to forgo the flu shot, she just cannot send her child to preschool, which is an optional activity.

It's as easy as that. Ir she is opposed to having her daughter receive the vaccine she is within her rights to do so. No one is forcing her. No one is going to arrest hernor take away her kids. She just can't send her to preschool.
Yes, it really is that straightforward. Either get the shot, lie about a religious exemption (note: I'm not recommending this, just pointing out it's an option), or take your kid out of preschool (so, send to daycare or homeschool.) Or I suppose you could move out of New Jersey. But the law is the law. No one's going to show up on your doorstep with a full syringe.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:51 PM   #93
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A couple of thoughts on reactions, and why governments require vaccines.....

A fever that's low enough to not require medical intervention isn't a "bad reaction", it's a normal reaction to the body sensing the presence of a foreign organism. Lots of people think a fever is this bad thing that a germ causes, that it's part of the illness. It's not.

Some disease-causing organisms can only function well in a very narrow temperature range. Raise the body's temperature, and the bug can't do it's thing. Our immune systems have evolved to take advantage of this. When the body's being invaded, the body raises its own temperature, as one of many disease-fighting mechanisms.

Vaccines work by tricking the immune system into thinking that there's an infection going on, so that it will produce antibodies to that infectious organism. That's why you'll sometimes get a touch of fever after a vaccine. It's not something bad that the vaccine is doing to you, it's your own body reacting to a possible infection, just like it's supposed to.

Yes, sometimes things go haywire, and fevers go so high that they can actually be harmful to the body. But the usual low-grade, short-lived fevers you get after a vaccine aren't dangerous by themselves, they're just a sign that your immune system is doing it's thing.

As for why governments require vaccines....yes, some of it is to protect the person getting the vaccine. But it's also to protect the entire community. There's this concept in epidemiology called "herd immunity". I'm oversimplifying here, but if enough people in a community are immune to an infectious illness, either naturally or through vaccination, epidemics can't get a foothold in that community because there aren't enough hosts for the organism to reproduce in. Think about it....if most of the people that you come into contact with are immune to this year's flu strains, your chances of catching the flu are much reduced.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:07 PM   #94
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OP here again....The more I think about the more I truely feel that giving my daughter the flu shot is not the right choice for my family. I am her parent and ultimately feel qualified to make an informed decision. I ofcourse have all of her immunizations up to date, its really the flu shot that is bothering me. Looking at statistics, it just doesn't make sense why this is a law for only preschool kids and only in NJ. How many kids who are healthy die from the flu? I assume that number is very low. I am beginning to think this is all about money....it is NJ!

At this point, I am seriously thinking about religious exempt. They leave me no other choice. Yes, I can take her out of school, but that seems ridiculous. Oh by the way she is 4 and I am planning to put her back in this school again next year, she is staying back another year. So, she will be 5, in the same preschool, and if I read correctly, no longer needs the flu vaccine! That makes no sense to me!
So you are going to lie about having a religious objection rather than follow the law, thereby compromising the collective health of the community? You can equivocate any way you want and torture logic to create a case for how it is suddenly against your religious principles, but if that was actually the case you wouldn't have needed to ask the question or have been looking for other strategies around a law that you don't want to follow. They are giving you a choice: get immunized or pull your daughter out of preschool! Your belief that the choice is not a good one does not negate the fact that it is a choice.

By the way, I am fundamentally fine with civil disobedience or even breaking laws when I feel they violate basic human rights or are unethical. For example, I would never serve in the military, as I am a pacifist, so I would refuse to be drafted if a draft was ever instituted, but I wouldn't lie about it and I would accept the consequences of that decision. Be an adult and own your choice and its consequences instead of asking a bunch of people on the Internet to tell you that it's OK to lie to break the law because you don't want to follow it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:11 PM   #95
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I can see the necessity in getting a flu shot.

Upwards of 200,000 people are hospitalized from flu related illnesses every single year. Unless a person has a religious reason or is allergic to components of the flu shot, I understand requiring flu shots.
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Yes but how many of those people are elderly, or compromised in some other way. Most healthy young people can fight off the flu.
How many of those people got the flu from someone that would not have gotten it had they or the people they come in contact with been vaccinated?

Example - what if your child doesn't get the vaccine and gets the flu, then gives it to someone else, who then gives it to someone with a compromised immune system and ends up hospitalized and dies. If your child had gotten the vaccine, that person would have never died. Your child got over the flu and is fine. The person they gave it to got over it and is fine. That that person (or people) down the line did not and lost their life.

This is NOT a far-fetched scenario and I'm sure it's happened before. There are not just and individual effects. There are also community effects.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #96
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So according to some-
If your religion doesn't believe in vaccines it is okay but if you personally don't believe in certain or all vaccines it's not?

Okay OP- New religion- We can call ourselves "Church of the Non Fluers" Voila! Religious exemption!
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizBelle View Post
How many of those people got the flu from someone that would not have gotten it had they or the people they come in contact with been vaccinated?

Example - what if your child doesn't get the vaccine and gets the flu, then gives it to someone else, who then gives it to someone with a compromised immune system and ends up hospitalized and dies. If your child had gotten the vaccine, that person would have never died. Your child got over the flu and is fine. The person they gave it to got over it and is fine. That that person (or people) down the line did not and lost their life.

This is NOT a far-fetched scenario and I'm sure it's happened before. There are not just and individual effects. There are also community effects.
I bolded. The flu vaccine is a guess. It has been wrong many times. The scenario you posted could still happen even with the vaccine.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:30 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizBelle View Post
How many of those people got the flu from someone that would not have gotten it had they or the people they come in contact with been vaccinated?

Example - what if your child doesn't get the vaccine and gets the flu, then gives it to someone else, who then gives it to someone with a compromised immune system and ends up hospitalized and dies. If your child had gotten the vaccine, that person would have never died. Your child got over the flu and is fine. The person they gave it to got over it and is fine. That that person (or people) down the line did not and lost their life.

This is NOT a far-fetched scenario and I'm sure it's happened before. There are not just and individual effects. There are also community effects.
Even if you get the flu vaccine, you can still get the flu. All depends on which strain they guessed would be prevalent the next year.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:32 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Mouse House Mama View Post
So according to some-
If your religion doesn't believe in vaccines it is okay but if you personally don't believe in certain or all vaccines it's not?

Okay OP- New religion- We can call ourselves "Church of the Non Fluers" Voila! Religious exemption!
And then if you claim your home as a house of worship, maybe you can get out of paying some taxes too.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:33 PM   #100
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And then if you claim your home as a house of worship, maybe you can get out of paying some taxes too.
Hmmmm...now you are talking! lololol!
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:36 PM   #101
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And then if you claim your home as a house of worship, maybe you can get out of paying some taxes too.
Ahhh yes, a page taken from the Duggar notebook.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #102
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I bolded. The flu vaccine is a guess. It has been wrong many times. The scenario you posted could still happen even with the vaccine.
Very very true. My friend's mom got the vaccine several years ago, had a reaction to it and ended up having the flu anyway.

I don't think the flu vaccine is worth the hype. Your body is designed to react to illnesses and injecting it with one isn't a natural means IMO.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #103
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:44 PM   #104
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I bolded. The flu vaccine is a guess. It has been wrong many times. The scenario you posted could still happen even with the vaccine.
It could but why not do everything we can to keep it from happening? OH, that's right because your rights to make your own choice for your child's shots are more important than someone else's right to not be subjected to the flu. All about me, right?


Do all of you also claim religious reasons for getting out of the other immunizations that are required? Or do you just pick and choose at will?

How do you purpose the OP claim religious reasons for this shot only?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:44 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by DizBelle View Post
How many of those people got the flu from someone that would not have gotten it had they or the people they come in contact with been vaccinated?

Example - what if your child doesn't get the vaccine and gets the flu, then gives it to someone else, who then gives it to someone with a compromised immune system and ends up hospitalized and dies. If your child had gotten the vaccine, that person would have never died. Your child got over the flu and is fine. The person they gave it to got over it and is fine. That that person (or people) down the line did not and lost their life.

This is NOT a far-fetched scenario and I'm sure it's happened before. There are not just and individual effects. There are also community effects.
That's quite a guilt trip to put on someone. We have no way of knowing if it's happened before.

Same person could get vaccinated, get the flu, give it to a carrier who gives it to someone who dies. They are no less of a carrier or spreader of germs. What if same person gets vaccinated reacts and is hospitalized or dies? Do we say, "so bad, so sad but at least no one got the flu from him or her".
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