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Old 12-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #196
Bilberry
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Hope you find a resolution over the flu vaccine and the pre-school. Good luck.

I doubt this will be of much help in your situation, but have been reading more frequently of researchers saying that the flu vaccine is largely ineffective and not worth the money. Another example of this was mentioned in the papers last week.

"Flu vaccination ‘over-promoted’ and ‘over-hyped’ according to researchers"

http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/11/22/f...o-researchers/
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #197
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Anyone else ever wonder which side of the vaccine argument Charles Darwin would be on?
Evolution in action?
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:56 AM   #198
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Does anyone know if the regulations concerning preschools in NJ also include all child care centers, head start centers, etc?

They do here--any establishment caring for children under the age of 5.

If that is the case, one of the reasons for a law such as this is that it is covering places that care for children that are too young to get the flu shot (don't they have to be over a certain age?) and children in day cares and in head start that may have extreme medical issues.

So, again, its not about the healthy little cuties you see walking into preschool every morning. Regulations generally cover a wide range of facilities that care for and/or teach a wide range of ages.

Yes, those children can be around someone at WDW with the flu. But, your child is much less apt to catch the flu at WDW than in a preschool setting where every child is wiping their nose with their hand and then touching every toy in the place, sneezing all over each other in a confined area, and sharing germs at every turn. At WDW (and some of the other ridiculous places some of you have mentioned) you are outside in the fresh air, that makes a huge difference. One of the easiest ways to stop germs from spreading in a child care facility is to open a window (and of course bleach toys, tables and chairs daily)


I think its absolutely silly here that some are claiming "religious beliefs" and acting like you have no clue of the definition of that. You know as well as I do why those exemptions exist.

Aren't some of you the EXACT same posters that will argue up and down that "a rule is a rule" when it comes to a kid breaking some inane school rule? And yet here you are suggesting the OP lie (and yes, we all know that it would in fact be a lie. Her kid having a fever after a shot does not suddenly make her religious beliefs change.).
She is following the rules. The law allows for religious exemptions if a parent claims its against their religion so she can claim that. I don't care of she lies, unless there is a law that says she has to furnish proof of her religious beliefs and she forges documents stating her religion, she is following the rules just by claiming it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #199
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ETA: decided to refrain from the conversation.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:20 AM   #200
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There are risks to every vaccine and IMO I think the tiny risk of catching a virus the body is designed to fight off (we have no health issues here) is a better choice than the maybe tiny, maybe not so tiny risk of taking a vaccine we don't need just b/c 'someone' decided it was necessary to survive.

I don't want the vaccine, I don't need it. There are chemicals in there and I am not taking them EVERY YEAR without a good reason.
But, there again, its not just about you and your child. If your child is enrolled in preschool, its about all of the children enrolled.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:25 AM   #201
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But, there again, its not just about you and your child. If your child is enrolled in preschool, its about all of the children enrolled.
I vaccinate my kids for most things, flu vax being one of two exceptions. I'm generally a big fan of vaccination.

But I entirely support the right of people do make their own decision about the matter. If you think you could be harming your kid, you shouldn't be forced to have them injected for the sake of other people.

And I've been immunocompromised myself for a significant period of time.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by luvmy3 View Post
She is following the rules. The law allows for religious exemptions if a parent claims its against their religion so she can claim that. I don't care of she lies, unless there is a law that says she has to furnish proof of her religious beliefs and she forges documents stating her religion, she is following the rules just by claiming it.
Oh, I see. So we get to pick and choose which rules we follow "to the letter" and which ones we can lie our way out of and which ones we can find a loop hole to?

Gotcha!

Like I said, the OP knows that it is a lie. If she is worried about a reaction that her child had, all she has to do is talk to the dr. about it. If she doesn't trust her dr. to give her good advise, then she needs to find another dr. that she does trust.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:36 AM   #203
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I've had the flu, no idea what strain. I also had H1N1, which was horrible. I would not have wished it on anyone. Again, I have a weak immune system and have gotten the flu shot. I didn't tell DD to get it, but she rarely gets sick. My PCP is a DO. He believes some vaccinations are good but not all.

I don't understand people getting so worked up over this. Ultimately, I personally think it should be up to the parents. NJ has a law that it is mandatory except religious or medical exemptions exist. OP, I'd call the doctor to see if he or she will give you something. If not, I still would not feel hesitate to protect my child. If I had to write a note that I object based on religious grounds for my child, I would. There is no reason to post derogatory things about other posters just because they disagree with you. Insulting people rarely influences them to consider your ideas.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:36 AM   #204
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Oh, I see. So we get to pick and choose which rules we follow "to the letter" and which ones we can lie our way out of and which ones we can find a loop hole to?

Gotcha!

Like I said, the OP knows that it is a lie. If she is worried about a reaction that her child had, all she has to do is talk to the dr. about it. If she doesn't trust her dr. to give her good advise, then she needs to find another dr. that she does trust.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:45 AM   #205
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Oh, I see. So we get to pick and choose which rules we follow "to the letter" and which ones we can lie our way out of and which ones we can find a loop hole to?

Gotcha!
Actually, we do

Society is full of 'rules' that don't always make sense; put in place because it's easier to make blanket policies; and because we can't possibly ever allow people to use common sense( because, of course, people can't be trusted to have any )

I 'pick and choose' all the time. And I willingly accept the consequences. "My" world needs to make sense. YMMV.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:51 AM   #206
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But, there again, its not just about you and your child. If your child is enrolled in preschool, its about all of the children enrolled.
If it's about ALL children enrolled and not just the one child, ALL should be forced to be vaccinated. No one forces any of the children into preschool. Remember, it's about ALL of them so if one cannot get the shot for any reason, we've been reminded in this thread that the parent can just homeschool or go somewhere else. I know the law says there are exemptions. My point is if people are arguing that it's about all the children and the individual child is not to be considered, then none of the individual children should be considered.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:10 AM   #207
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Actually, we do

Society is full of 'rules' that don't always make sense; put in place because it's easier to make blanket policies; and because we can't possibly ever allow people to use common sense( because, of course, people can't be trusted to have any )

I 'pick and choose' all the time. And I willingly accept the consequences. "My" world needs to make sense. YMMV.
Sure, as long as you are willingly to accept the consequences.

The consequences here are that the OP can choose not to follow the rule and her child will not be allowed in preschool. She isn't willing to accept the consequences so it is being suggested that she lie instead. That's not the same thing as "accepting the consequences".
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:21 AM   #208
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If it's about ALL children enrolled and not just the one child, ALL should be forced to be vaccinated. No one forces any of the children into preschool. Remember, it's about ALL of them so if one cannot get the shot for any reason, we've been reminded in this thread that the parent can just homeschool or go somewhere else. I know the law says there are exemptions. My point is if people are arguing that it's about all the children and the individual child is not to be considered, then none of the individual children should be considered.
The individual child is considered, that is why there are reasons for exemptions. But the OP doesn't honestly fall under either of those exemptions. Should they force children that have medical issues or allergies to the vaccine to have the shot? (remember, this rule also includes children in child care, so we are including more than the 3 day a week preschool child here) And should we also change the freedom of religion that we all have?

Her child is not forced into preschool either.

Children under 5 are one of the highest risk groups for having complications from the flu. Children under 2 are an even higher risk.

Children under 6 months are not given the vaccine (someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that is what I understood from the CDC). If your 4 year old attends a preschool that also cares for children under 6 months (child care center with infants); would you really be ok with your 4 year old getting the flu from home and bringing it to that infant? It doesn't matter the reason, would you be ok with it?
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:27 AM   #209
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Poor atheists are SOL, I guess.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:34 AM   #210
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Anyone else ever wonder which side of the vaccine argument Charles Darwin would be on?




Did I just stir the pot a little more? I really am curious and can see him being on either side.
Gee, I don't know. I do that my parents never had the vaccine, they both died in their middle eighties and they never had the flu. I am 49 and have been vaccinated one time, stupidity I guess, and I had the flu one time. It was a very mild case but was diagnosed as the flu by a Dr. My3 kids have never had one, they all went through pre school and NEVER had the flu, still haven't. Maybe if none of us got flu shots, survival of the fittest would prevail. Everyone not strong enough to survive a virus would die. Not trying to be ugly, but if you want to through out Darwinism, lets just go there also.
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