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Old 12-06-2012, 09:10 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Janepod View Post
ALL vaccines? And this guy graduated from med school? Wow.
Yes, and she is wonderful. She gave us the names of a pediatrician that thinks the same way so we are able to selectively vaccinate our children.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:15 AM   #182
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I would have no trouble at all lying for a religious exemption. It is ludicrous and discriminatory that there is not a philosophical exemption. My closely held ethical views are just as important to me as any belief in the supernatural is to someone who is religious.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:26 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Pigeon View Post
I would have no trouble at all lying for a religious exemption. It is ludicrous and discriminatory that there is not a philosophical exemption. My closely held ethical views are just as important to me as any belief in the supernatural is to someone who is religious.
I would definitely call my congressman if I were in your shoes, then. The reason that the law makes exceptions in cases of religion is because the Constitution, namely, The First Amendment, states that they have to. Because people do have freedom of religion, a law cannot be passed that would violate their religion. Of course, by religion, they only mean those recognized by The United States Government, so that can make things a bit tricky in and of itself. If you do feel strongly about not vaccinating your child and that you should be free to make that choice based on philosophical reasons, certainly call your representative and voice that opinion. For me personally, I would not lie about my religion, be that saying that I am a religion when I am not or saying that my specific religion is opposed to something when it is not. But that is my personal stance.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:39 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Robbi View Post
What about the child who has been vaccinated but catches a strain the vaccine doesn't cover and then gives other children the flu?
Again, getting the vaccination is not about guarantees. It is about reducing the probability that you will get the flu.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:39 AM   #185
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Firstly, I don't see people condemning you, or others, for having a legitimate religious objection. As I said earlier in the thread, for example, I have a religious and moral objection to war which would preclude me from serving in the military and so I would object to being forced to serve against my will. What I am reading is people criticizing the OP for choosing to lie, or create an alternate version of reality, about having a religious objection when she does not actually have one and then asking others to endorse her wish to do so. In other words, I see her as one of the posters you are criticizing in the second paragraph.

As to your second paragraph, are the people saying that the OP should not lie the same ones posting about sneaking their kids into WDW or otherwise advocating lying? I suspect they are not, and if they are not, I think your statement that they cannot have it both ways is unfair because they are not asking for that privilege.
But who gets to define legitimate? Maybe I don't believe in xyz and I think it is a crock. Does that make it illegitimate? See what I am saying? As far as a religious objection, again, like all religions it is interpretation. My religion states that I care for my children. For me that means making decisions that are best for my children. No alternate version of reality for me.

As for who thinks it is okay to lie about some of the things I have posted, I don't keep track of who says what so I couldn't really tell you if they are the same people. I would be willing to bet that at least a few have. Of course I could be wrong but statistically I don't think I am.

ETA- I did want to add that if I didn't like a school's policy I would chose another.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:39 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by luvmy3 View Post
I don't believe one needs to claim to be of a certain religion, only that their religious beliefs don't allow their child to be vaccinated. Maybe her religious beliefs are that we shouldn't inject certain foreign bodies into the body that her God created
Yes, if that were the case, but...

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OP here....thanks so much for all the replies. My oldest just ended up with a fever from the shot, but I never even told the doctor. When I called the school I told them about my reason being because my oldest had a bad reaction and she said that was not a reason and I had to get it done or she couldn't come back to school. Now if I say it is a religious reason, they know I am lying. Will they question me? I hate to lie, but I am feeling so backed into a corner.
...it's not the case for the OP.

It sounds like some posters, for reasons that are inexplicable to me, honestly have a religious objection to vaccines, but the OP does not. And while I doubt "I have a religious belief that I am the sole decider for my children" is the intent behind the religious exemption (I suspect it is carved out for those who are Christian Scientists or otherwise eschew medical treatment), the fact is the exemption does exist, due to the 1st amendment. But the OP doesn't hold that belief, so she is lying and asking others to say it is OK. And those who share her opinion on the vaccine are telling her it's OK to lie because it endorses their position. All I'm saying is that A) she has a choice, B) if she chooses to lie, she shouldn't pretend it's NOT a lie just because she fabricated a cover story to soothe her conscience and C) rather than lie, she should own her decision and accept the consequences, which in this case are that her daughter doesn't get to go to preschool.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:42 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Princess'_Daddy View Post
Yes, if that were the case, but...



...it's not the case for the OP.

It sounds like some posters, for reasons that are inexplicable to me, honestly have a religious objection to vaccines, but the OP does not. And while I doubt "I have a religious belief that I am the sole decider for my children" is the intent behind the religious exemption (I suspect it is carved out for those who are Christian Scientists or otherwise eschew medical treatment), the fact is the exemption does exist, due to the 1st amendment. But the OP doesn't hold that belief, so she is lying and asking others to say it is OK. And those who share her opinion on the vaccine are telling her it's OK to lie because it endorses their position. All I'm saying is that A) she has a choice, B) if she chooses to lie, she shouldn't pretend it's NOT a lie just because she fabricated a cover story to soothe her conscience and C) rather than lie, she should own her decision and accept the consequences, which in this case are that her daughter doesn't get to go to preschool.
We can doubt and suspect all we want but it is not defined as a certain religion.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Mouse House Mama View Post
But who gets to define legitimate? Maybe I don't believe in xyz and I think it is a crock. Does that make it illegitimate? See what I am saying? As far as a religious objection, again, like all religions it is interpretation. My religion states that I care for my children. For me that means making decisions that are best for my children. No alternate version of reality for me.

As for who thinks it is okay to lie about some of the things I have posted, I don't keep track of who says what so I couldn't really tell you if they are the same people. I would be willing to bet that at least a few have. Of course I could be wrong but statistically I don't think I am.

ETA- I did want to add that if I didn't like a school's policy I would chose another.
In the case of this law, somebody who honestly holds the religious objection, as that is the exception that is carved out in this case if she cannot provide a medical reason for opting out. The issue is that the OP does NOT hold a religious objection. Personally, as one who has religious objections to certain things (such as war) and stands proudly behind them, it does offend me that she is using a legitimate shield for an illegitimate purpose.

As to your second part, i.e. about the posters suggesting lies in other posts while condemning them in this case, I believe you are incorrect, but more to the point, it is you who is making an accusation that you cannot backup, and now using statistics to support your point as if they are determinative. If 85% of people accused of crimes are found guilty in a court of law, should we just start declaring everybody guilty, or should the courts still need to prove the charges? So in your case I think you should either retract your accusation or prove it on a poster-by-poster basis, just as I provided evidence, using the OP's own words, that she does not have a religious objection to the vaccine but is prepared to lie and say that she does to further her own goals.

Again, my point is that she doesn't need to lie. She has a philosophical objection, so she should hold true to that belief if it is truly that important to her and accept the consequences and choose the next most acceptable outcome.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:59 AM   #189
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Quote:
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We can doubt and suspect all we want but it is not defined as a certain religion.
Honestly, I am confused how you are not following my logic. The OP, in the post I quoted and to which you responded, said she is going to lie and that the school will know she is lying. This is not supposition on my part. If she had a religious objection, then it would not be a lie. So how are we not connecting on this? Because to me it appears that you are confusing the fact that you have a true religious objection with the fact that your true religious objection (which I do not understand, but that is not germane to this point because it IS your true religious opinion) is not relevant to the fact that the OP does not have a religious objection.

Does your faith not mention something about not lying? It's in the list that I use along with honoring my father and mother, and both are applicable here. Your children should honor you, and the OP should not lie...
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:15 AM   #190
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Does anyone know if the regulations concerning preschools in NJ also include all child care centers, head start centers, etc?

They do here--any establishment caring for children under the age of 5.

If that is the case, one of the reasons for a law such as this is that it is covering places that care for children that are too young to get the flu shot (don't they have to be over a certain age?) and children in day cares and in head start that may have extreme medical issues.

So, again, its not about the healthy little cuties you see walking into preschool every morning. Regulations generally cover a wide range of facilities that care for and/or teach a wide range of ages.

Yes, those children can be around someone at WDW with the flu. But, your child is much less apt to catch the flu at WDW than in a preschool setting where every child is wiping their nose with their hand and then touching every toy in the place, sneezing all over each other in a confined area, and sharing germs at every turn. At WDW (and some of the other ridiculous places some of you have mentioned) you are outside in the fresh air, that makes a huge difference. One of the easiest ways to stop germs from spreading in a child care facility is to open a window (and of course bleach toys, tables and chairs daily)


I think its absolutely silly here that some are claiming "religious beliefs" and acting like you have no clue of the definition of that. You know as well as I do why those exemptions exist.

Aren't some of you the EXACT same posters that will argue up and down that "a rule is a rule" when it comes to a kid breaking some inane school rule? And yet here you are suggesting the OP lie (and yes, we all know that it would in fact be a lie. Her kid having a fever after a shot does not suddenly make her religious beliefs change.).
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #191
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OP- it's your child, your choice. These threads on vaccination always get heated and this one is pretty mild in comparison to some. Probably due to it revolving around the flu shot which has a looser following. Read some of the threads debating the other vaccines on the mandatory schedule.

If your preschool won't accept your waiver find another. There's usually a preschool or two nowadays that has a class or after school program for autistic kids and those schools are usually more accepting of waivers. For what it's worth I'm perfectly ok with you belonging to the religion of "not harming your own child" whether that reason be a peer reviewed medically valid reason or just mother's intuition.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:20 AM   #192
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OP- it's your child, your choice. These threads on vaccination always get heated and this one is pretty mild in comparison to some. Probably due to it revolving around the flu shot which has a looser following. Read some of the threads debating the other vaccines on the mandatory schedule.

If your preschool won't accept your waiver find another. There's usually a preschool or two nowadays that has a class or after school program for autistic kids and those schools are usually more accepting of waivers. For what it's worth I'm perfectly ok with you belonging to the religion of "not harming your own child" whether that reason be a peer reviewed medically valid reason or just mother's intuition.
May I ask how she is harming her child?
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #193
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May I ask how she is harming her child?
There are risks to every vaccine and IMO I think the tiny risk of catching a virus the body is designed to fight off (we have no health issues here) is a better choice than the maybe tiny, maybe not so tiny risk of taking a vaccine we don't need just b/c 'someone' decided it was necessary to survive.

I don't want the vaccine, I don't need it. There are chemicals in there and I am not taking them EVERY YEAR without a good reason.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:45 AM   #194
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Anyone else ever wonder which side of the vaccine argument Charles Darwin would be on?




Did I just stir the pot a little more? I really am curious and can see him being on either side.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:52 AM   #195
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Anyone else ever wonder which side of the vaccine argument Charles Darwin would be on?




Did I just stir the pot a little more? I really am curious and can see him being on either side.
You can do whatever you want but people have a right to think for themselves and make their own decisions and not be ridiculed or disparaged for not going along with the mainstream. I'm not so fond of the mainstream. I question and research, and sometimes come to different conclusions.

The non flu-ers are not going to bring down the world.
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