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Old 12-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #151
tinkerbellandeeyor
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Okay but if I would have gotten anything other then flu which I do get I would be a vegetable today due to my physical disability does that make my parents selfish for making this choice?
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:27 PM   #152
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Okay but if I would have gotten anything other then flu which I do get I would be a vegetable today due to my physical disability does that make my parents selfish for making this choice?
Your post is a bit confusing, but I think you are trying to say that, due to some physical issues, you were not medically able to have other vaccines, is that correct? If that is the case, then nobody would think your parents were selfish for not having you vaccinated, they were keeping you safe because of actual medical issues. In fact, people like you are exactly who those of us who do vaccinate are helping. Since you cannot be protected via vaccines, you have to rely on herd immunity. Those who choose to ignore medical facts and refuse to vaccinate their children for no valid reason are the ones who put people like you at risk.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:36 PM   #153
tinkerbellandeeyor
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Originally Posted by Ceila View Post
Your post is a bit confusing, but I think you are trying to say that, due to some physical issues, you were not medically able to have other vaccines, is that correct? If that is the case, then nobody would think your parents were selfish for not having you vaccinated, they were keeping you safe because of actual medical issues. In fact, people like you are exactly who those of us who do vaccinate are helping. Since you cannot be protected via vaccines, you have to rely on herd immunity. Those who choose to ignore medical facts and refuse to vaccinate their children for no valid reason are the ones who put people like you at risk.
Yes sorry about the confusing post
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:38 PM   #154
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Yes sorry about the confusing post
no worries!
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:02 PM   #155
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OP, so what if they know you're lying:
The emergence of pathogenic virus infections like influenza and HIV have created an urgent need for new vaccines.
Virus-based vaccines are made in living cells (cell substrates). Some manufacturers are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines. The continual growth of cell lines ensures that there is a consistent supply of the same cells that can yield high quantities of the vaccine.
In some cases the cell lines that are used might be tumorigenic, that is, they form tumors when injected into rodents. Some of these tumor-forming cell lines may contain cancer-causing viruses that are not actively reproducing. Such viruses are hard to detect using standard methods. These latent, or "quiet," viruses pose a potential threat, since they might become active under vaccine manufacturing conditions.
Therefore, to ensure the safety of vaccines, our laboratory is investigating ways to activate latent viruses in cell lines and to detect the activated viruses, as well as other unknown viruses, using new technologies. We will then adapt our findings to detect viruses in the same types of cell substrates that are used to produce vaccines. We are also trying to identify specific biological processes that reflect virus activity.

Researchers have now for over 50 years that vaccines contain cancer cells.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:15 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Ceila View Post
Lying about Santa and Mickey won't hurt anyone else, whereas lying about the vaccine could jeopardize someone with a weak immune system.
Well, according to some if you lie about anything including those you have mentioned you will have children who hate you and don't believe anything you tell them because they are scarred for life. I of course don't subscribe to that.

As for your second point- if you have a weak immune system then being anywhere puts you at risk. A common cold could be damaging.

I do want to point out that I find it hysterical that people are so adamant that you not lie about your religious beliefs and just take your child out of the school etc. Seriously? For me, my religion states (condensed version w/o getting in trouble for forbidden topics) that I am supposed to care for my children. Meaning I have to decide what is best for them. So in essence, yes, it is not a lie that my religious beliefs would conflict with the requirement. I know, I know, some will say it is twisting it and wrapping a lie up all pretty. Perhaps to some, but I feel strongly enough that it is my job to make the decisions for my children. So, yes, it does conflict with my beliefs.

I do love though how so many preach of not lying etc. and then we see 900 posts from people asking if they can pass their 10 year old for 2, or lying about when they are going on a trip to surprise the kids, or writing a letter to the school about how they are taking an "educational" trip to WDW. You (a general you) can't pick and chose what to lie about and get all self righteous because someone might chose something else. Overall I dislike lying and discourage it. I do however think that sometimes it is not the end of the world. I would never tell a person they look horrible even if they do etc.

I do the best I can to protect my children from harm. I like to think that other parents do as well. Do I always agree with their choices? No. That's okay though, I know they don't always agree with mine. Live and let live.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:19 PM   #157
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It's kind of like Chicken Pox. The director of DD's preschool called me to tell me another child in her class had it so she had to notify the parents. I asked if she could make sure DD hugged the other child goodbye before she left the school. . Truly, I was glad she was exposed before kindergarten. DD did get them, BTW. Now, 16 years later, her friends who were vaccinated are getting revaccinated. One got actual chicken pox and felt worse than DD did at 4. It was much harder on her.
My mom tried that with me, I never got the darn things. When I had my kids, my DH and I had to get vaccinated first because neither of us had any immunity to chicken pox.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:25 PM   #158
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Lying about Santa and Mickey won't hurt anyone else, whereas lying about the vaccine could jeopardize someone with a weak immune system.
Don't you think that the kid whose parent did have a real religious objection to it, could also be infecting other kids. See how incredibly stupid this it?
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:48 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi View Post
OP, so what if they know you're lying:
The emergence of pathogenic virus infections like influenza and HIV have created an urgent need for new vaccines.
Virus-based vaccines are made in living cells (cell substrates). Some manufacturers are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines. The continual growth of cell lines ensures that there is a consistent supply of the same cells that can yield high quantities of the vaccine.
In some cases the cell lines that are used might be tumorigenic, that is, they form tumors when injected into rodents. Some of these tumor-forming cell lines may contain cancer-causing viruses that are not actively reproducing. Such viruses are hard to detect using standard methods. These latent, or "quiet," viruses pose a potential threat, since they might become active under vaccine manufacturing conditions.
Therefore, to ensure the safety of vaccines, our laboratory is investigating ways to activate latent viruses in cell lines and to detect the activated viruses, as well as other unknown viruses, using new technologies. We will then adapt our findings to detect viruses in the same types of cell substrates that are used to produce vaccines. We are also trying to identify specific biological processes that reflect virus activity.

Researchers have now for over 50 years that vaccines contain cancer cells.
where did this info come from???? is it from a peer reviewed paper........???? i worked with Cell lines for a long time...... and dont see how a virus will survive the prep process of producing a vaccine....doesnt make sense to me at all...so i would love to see the theory behind this to see if it makes sceintific sense ......but its not my field of study.....I wasnt a virologist..... just a plain old biochemist.............
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:53 PM   #160
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where did this info come from???? is it from a peer reviewed paper........???? i worked with Cell lines for a long time...... and dont see how a virus will survive the prep process of producing a vaccine....doesnt make sense to me at all...so i would love to see the theory behind this to see if it makes sceintific sense ......but its not my field of study.....I wasnt a virologist..... just a plain old biochemist.............
Investigating Viruses in Cells Used to Make Vaccines; and Evaluating the Potential Threat
Posed by Transmission of Viruses to Humans
Principal Investigator: Arifa S. Khan, PhD
Office / Division / Lab: OVRR / DVP / LR
General Overview

http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvac.../ucm127327.htm

There's more. I also recommend reading Dr. Mary's Monkey.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:12 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Mouse House Mama View Post
I do want to point out that I find it hysterical that people are so adamant that you not lie about your religious beliefs and just take your child out of the school etc. Seriously? For me, my religion states (condensed version w/o getting in trouble for forbidden topics) that I am supposed to care for my children. Meaning I have to decide what is best for them. So in essence, yes, it is not a lie that my religious beliefs would conflict with the requirement. I know, I know, some will say it is twisting it and wrapping a lie up all pretty. Perhaps to some, but I feel strongly enough that it is my job to make the decisions for my children. So, yes, it does conflict with my beliefs.

I do love though how so many preach of not lying etc. and then we see 900 posts from people asking if they can pass their 10 year old for 2, or lying about when they are going on a trip to surprise the kids, or writing a letter to the school about how they are taking an "educational" trip to WDW. You (a general you) can't pick and chose what to lie about and get all self righteous because someone might chose something else. Overall I dislike lying and discourage it. I do however think that sometimes it is not the end of the world. I would never tell a person they look horrible even if they do etc.
Firstly, I don't see people condemning you, or others, for having a legitimate religious objection. As I said earlier in the thread, for example, I have a religious and moral objection to war which would preclude me from serving in the military and so I would object to being forced to serve against my will. What I am reading is people criticizing the OP for choosing to lie, or create an alternate version of reality, about having a religious objection when she does not actually have one and then asking others to endorse her wish to do so. In other words, I see her as one of the posters you are criticizing in the second paragraph.

As to your second paragraph, are the people saying that the OP should not lie the same ones posting about sneaking their kids into WDW or otherwise advocating lying? I suspect they are not, and if they are not, I think your statement that they cannot have it both ways is unfair because they are not asking for that privilege.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #162
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Hello. My daughter attends preschool, 2 days a week for 2 1/2 hours. I was just given a letter saying it is mandatory for her to get the flu shot. I called and told them I don't get my kids the flu shot. My oldest had a very bad reaction, and since then I haven't gotten them. She says it is the law for preschool, not older kids. My question is I really don't want to give her the shot, what can I do? She told me if it was a religious reason, only then could I get out of it. Obviously, I am torn and am kinda upset. I mean its the flu, not the measles or some deadly disease. Anyone have any ideas??
Find a new preschool. I think it is unfair for you not to vaccinate, then for you to give my kid the flu when I send my baby to daycare / preschool.

I personally think that people who don't want to vaccinate should not work and then keep their babies at home and care for them at home. Personal opinion - just like it is someone's personal opinion not to vaccinate. And I'm a healthcare provider.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:02 PM   #163
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I was going to just say the same thing. Sadly, children die of the flu every year.

OP, you said your oldest had a bad reaction to the flu shot. What kind of a reaction was it? Was it a shot or the mist? Maybe the mist would be a better option if you are forced to vaccinate your child.
just because one child had a reaction, doesn't mean the next one will.

just because your cousin in michigan had a reaction to eggs doesn't mean you will.

no reason to withhold a vaccine from one child because a sibling had a reaction. or to lie and say you have a religious reason when you don't - or to break a law if you don't. find a different daycare or keep your kid home and care for them there - or hire someone to care for them in your own home.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:06 PM   #164
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OP, I'd go ahead and try the vaccine this year for this child since you like this preschool. Your older child really didn't have a bad reaction if it wasn't enough to even inform your doctor, imo.

My kids are much older, but I kind of remember them having fever after some of their vaccinations as well.
Exactly. A fever is not a "bad reaction". Anaphylaxis is a bad reaction. A fever that does not even need a doctors visit or a phone call is not a bad reaction.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:15 PM   #165
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Find a new preschool. I think it is unfair for you not to vaccinate, then for you to give my kid the flu when I send my baby to daycare / preschool.

I personally think that people who don't want to vaccinate should not work and then keep their babies at home and care for them at home. Personal opinion - just like it is someone's personal opinion not to vaccinate. And I'm a healthcare provider.
What about the child who has been vaccinated but catches a strain the vaccine doesn't cover and then gives other children the flu?
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