DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 12-02-2012, 02:58 PM   #46
Brian Noble
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Two thoughts:

1: Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, my understanding is that "Club" is a property of the home resort, not the specific deed. Having some deeds at a particular Home Resort be in the Club but not others would be difficult to accomplish. That's not to say that it would be impossible, but it would be hard. That's different from the non-Club uses that have already been curtailed. I could see GFV and subsequent DVC resorts starting a "new Club" with which "qualified" deeds in the "old Club" could exchange with on a 1-for-1 basis, and shutting "non-qualified" deeds out of it. Other developers (e.g. Diamond, Wyndham) have gone that route.

2: Guides have a relatively good reputation for being honest, but even so---they are timeshare salesmen. There is a limit to how far you should trust any of them when their advice boils down to: "You'd better decide what you are doing right now today!" Yes, the OP's Guide said buy resale earlier rather than later, but as we all know that is hard to do...and wouldn't a direct purchase just be simpler? Of course it would...

I would not be surprised to see other changes come to resale deeds---for example, I could imagine that resale buyers might not have AP discounts available to them some time in the future. But, this one sounds like too much work when simpler steps might get Disney what it wants.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:38 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by GOOFY D View Post
Seems to be a risky move by Disney at best. It devalues the DVC IMO. If someone buys direct and have to sell for any reason, they are not getting nearly the value they paid for, because they are now selling a tainted product (does not have the perks that they paid for in a resale). If Disney does not guarantee a repurchase (which they can't), then people may think twice about spending so much money for something they cannot sell without taking a bath on it.
That would be what would de-motivate me to buy direct. (Although, im pretty much demotivated from buying direct since the last change) We made our first purchase in 2002 after taking 10 years to decide. We bought direct several times. One of the reasons we bought DVC was it seemed to hold its value better than other timeshares. Some of the contracts we purchased don't expire 'till Im around 100 years old. I expected re-sales to go down in value as points are used up, but I think the resale value would drop much faster if this comes to pass. Overall, it would make paying cash or renting DVC a much smarter move than buying.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:06 PM   #48
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No different than not letting resale buyers use their points for DCL. There is a reason the the legal docs are written the way that they are.

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I do believe it's different - at least from my understanding of the documents. Unless they plan on removing every resort from the club.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:08 PM   #49
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I know this has been discussed in other threads before, but I agree that Disney is being very short sighted if they choose to devalue resale so drastically. They are under what I believe to be a mistaken assumption all people buying resale will instead choose to buy direct because of the restrictions. I can only speak for myself, but for me the choice wasn't between buying resale and buying direct. It was buying resale or not purchasing DVC. I wasn't willing to pay the direct costs. So to get me to buy direct the prices would have to be slashed by 50%. (And that clearly isn't going to happen.) However, I still think Disney is better off because I purchased resale. What they got is someone who is committed to vacationing regularly with them until 2042. And as we all know, even with DVC, we spend thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation. If they make resales too restrictive they will drive away people like me.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:15 PM   #50
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Having just sold my last "direct" contract, I am now a "Restricted Owner" in that I only own resale DVC points. I am trying to figure this whole conversation out, rumor or not.

So, from what I've read, it appears that current resales owners would be grandfathered in until a determined date. From that point on, new restrictions on resales contracts. They would be limited to staying at home resort only. No staying somewhere else not even at 7 mos.

What if you are a combo property resales owner (post changes #2). Could you not then transfer your points to use at your other ownership because now you can't book at 7 mos? I guess combo owners would then have to have split stays to use all of thier points during one vacation? No waitlisting now? I see this as a big problem if you don't own all your points at one resort.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:30 PM   #51
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If disney will grandfather resale buyers before new changes take effect, it seems to me that this will grow the resale market. This will create positive demand which may increase the cost of resale points (good for sellers). So if you can live with the current rules and restrictions, isn't it a great time and reason to buy resale now more than ever...before more restrictions take place?

Life is never with out changes. If I was a seasoned resale buyer this would seem to be good news unless you are concerned that they won't use the grandfather rule.

Maybe in the end it's a pendulum that is self correcting with the market. Maybe the resale market will end up being more like other non Disney time share is that a bad or unfair thing for getting it at "wholesale" prices?
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:34 PM   #52
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The main reason we bought where we wouldn't mind staying every trip because that is the only thing we are "guaranteed". However, if one is a multiple resales new restrictions resort points owner, I see this impacting them more.


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Originally Posted by CaptDadSparrow View Post
If disney will grandfather resale buyers before new changes take effect, it seems to me that this will grow the resale market. This will create positive demand which may increase the cost of resale points (good for sellers). So if you can live with the current rules and restrictions, isn't it a great time and reason to buy resale now more than ever...before more restrictions take place?

Life is never with out changes. If I was a seasoned resale buyer this would seem to be good news unless you are concerned that they won't use the grandfather rule.

Maybe in the end it's a pendulum that is self correcting with the market. Maybe the resale market will end up being more like other non Disney time share is that a bad or unfair thing for getting it at "wholesale" prices?
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:48 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by CaptDadSparrow
If disney will grandfather resale buyers before new changes take effect, it seems to me that this will grow the resale market. This will create positive demand which may increase the cost of resale points (good for sellers). So if you can live with the current rules and restrictions, isn't it a great time and reason to buy resale now more than ever...before more restrictions take place?

Life is never with out changes. If I was a seasoned resale buyer this would seem to be good news unless you are concerned that they won't use the grandfather rule.

Maybe in the end it's a pendulum that is self correcting with the market. Maybe the resale market will end up being more like other non Disney time share is that a bad or unfair thing for getting it at "wholesale" prices?
I guess it's possible that some people are sitting around with $10,000 burning a hole in their pocket, and this might prompt them to spend. But by definition we are just talking about people who would have bought anyway, they just move their purchase up. So no net additional sales or market increase. Devaluing resale points is not going to stimulate the resale market, and if it were, Disney wouldn't want to do it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:25 PM   #54
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This is an interesting idea & if it comes to pass, it wouldn't drive me to buy direct... it would drive me to not buy at all. I think with these restrictions, we'll find that rental points will become cheaper as more & more points will come on the market with rental restrictions for use at one resort only. Renting these restricted points will become much more affordable.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:39 PM   #55
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I never even thought about the rental market. Good point.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:44 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by bcarpenter
This is an interesting idea & if it comes to pass, it wouldn't drive me to buy direct... it would drive me to not buy at all. I think with these restrictions, we'll find that rental points will become cheaper as more & more points will come on the market with rental restrictions for use at one resort only. Renting these restricted points will become much more affordable.
I'm not sure this will be the case. Renting points is the alternative to cash rental, and I don't see those prices dropping. Why would more rental points hit the market based on these restrictions?
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:53 PM   #57
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Wouldn't that be the case even now. At 11 months, all BLT owners whether they are resale or direct have equal opportunity to book their home resort, BLT. At 7 months, there could be nothing left for anyone including any BLT owners direct or not.

So I am confused in how the change would make it any different.
The difference is that currently you can book at any resort, so even if a resale owner's resort is booked up, they can book elsewhere.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:56 PM   #58
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A
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Originally Posted by bcarpenter
This is an interesting idea & if it comes to pass, it wouldn't drive me to buy direct... it would drive me to not buy at all. I think with these restrictions, we'll find that rental points will become cheaper as more & more points will come on the market with rental restrictions for use at one resort only. Renting these restricted points will become much more affordable.
That doesn't make economic sense. People renting points don't care about options to stay at different locations. They simply rent where they want to go. It should have no negative impact on the rental market... Unless you assume resale contract holder will flood the market trying to get rid of their points. But then that doesn't make sense since only a minority with have such a negative feeling because they can't use their points on cruises, adventures and such. The end result will be a handful of vocal individuals and everyone else will adapt, rent or sell. It won't be enough to affect the direct and resale market negatively. Disney has some pretty smart bean counters and the power to alter the rules at any time to make the vocal minority happy enough....or maybe its a smart move many businesses have done forever, let go of the less profitable in favor of a smaller, more profitable market.

No one ever said dvc was supposed to be for everyone at any affordability level. Other wise they would have a dvc level for moderate or value resorts. Exclusivity fosters pride in ownership.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by bighoo93

I'm not sure this will be the case. Renting points is the alternative to cash rental, and I don't see those prices dropping. Why would more rental points hit the market based on these restrictions?
Well if one owns at a more in demand resort I could see rental prices even increasing. But if one owns at a lesser demand resort one will have to really drop the ppt to get someone to rent.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:00 PM   #60
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Well if one owns at a more in demand resort I could see rental prices even increasing. But if one owns at a lesser demand resort one will have to really drop the ppt to get someone to rent.
Not true. Everyone has a preference and it's rarely the same. More importantly there are enough Disney vacationers with enough varried interest to retain value.
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