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Old 12-04-2012, 06:44 PM   #106
manhattanman
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Originally Posted by Peaseblossom View Post
I'm sure the company in question might that feel that being publicly accused of committing fraud, false advertising (and possibly theft, still can't quite figure it out) was uncalled for. If the OP had come on and said "I had a bad customer service experience, let's discuss" I don't think anyone would have gotten their backs up.

People are cynical, it seems everyone has an agenda these days. It's hard to know who to believe.
If they have a beef ( I presume they are aware of more of the facts as they are a principal in the dispute) then they have a reason to come here and defend themselves ( which they seemingly did, depending on whether or not you think the VS is the real VS).

If I had a company and new that so long as I kept it infrequent that I could completely take advantage of people, and that if someone posted it that my other clients would question the complainers motives and dismiss her complains as a pack of lies, I might be more inclined to do it ( not saying that VS did this, I have no idea of the particulars and until I am confident of what happened I'm not going to place blame. I just wished other people would do the same).

it seems like the OP's plans ( many of which were already set) are now in jeopardy. I dont begrudge her for posting the way she did if she thought she was getting scammed. It appears that she DID try talk to VS about it first and she said that they refused to talk to her and hung up on her. But then again, she could be lying about that as well, right ?
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:07 PM   #107
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My guess is that people would have been much more empathetic and much less defensive of VS if the title of the thread had been "vacation strategy has horrible customer service!!!!!!!!!!!!! be careful" instead of "vacation strategy is a SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stay away". The latter is a pretty loaded statement, not to mention inaccurate based on the multitude of people who have had legit transactions with them. Scam and sucky situation is not the same thing.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by kellyw8863 View Post
My guess is that people would have been much more empathetic and much less defensive of VS if the title of the thread had been "vacation strategy has horrible customer service!!!!!!!!!!!!! be careful" instead of "vacation strategy is a SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stay away". The latter is a pretty loaded statement, not to mention inaccurate based on the multitude if people who have had legit transactions with them. Scam and sucky situation are not the same thing.
so if you got scammed you would willing self censure and say something else? There is a big difference between less than stellar customer service and the feeling that you are being taken advantage of.

If a restaurant is no good, I dont go back. If I buy something and it does not live up to my expectations, its a learning experience. If I think I'm being scammed ( and they already have my money) on principle I have to take a stand. And the fact that VS is seemingly a stand up company and has lots of pleased customers is immaterial. This was the OP's first interaction with VS ( presumably). Put yourself in her shoes, if you think you got scammed the fact that 99% of other customers are happy is no salve, in my opinion.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:27 PM   #109
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By definition, there would have had to be intention behind VS's actions for it to be a scam. They would have had to set this person up with the intention to take her money and never deliver a product. That's a pretty heady accusation and I would expect that anyone who is willing to post such words, even if it is just on a vacation forum, be able to either back them up or at the very least, be able to take the heat when he or she doesn't. Once we throw something out there into Internet land, we can't take it back - we own it. And thus, we accept some of the responsibility to choose our words carefully.

So yes, I would censor myself and choose my words wisely.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:33 PM   #110
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And my opinion as to whether or not the OP's situation truly is a scam has nothing to do with my feelings that's it's unfortunate. I hope things do work out for her family.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:43 PM   #111
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3 times we have rented through VS and always been satisfied. Very nice people to deal with and IMO on the UP and UP.

I was so confused with the OP's issue...she did not communicate it well. I do feel bad her trip was ruined, but honestly....... before renting a Timeshare you need to know its NOT like renting a Disney Resort. I read the rebuttal from VS and think the OP was not scammed.

You do not pay $$ to Wyndham directly through them which it seem is what the OP thought was supposed to happen. This is NOT how it works.

I have gotten quotes from VS and the next day they were unavailable.... that is the nature of it. Just like any Promo at Disney Resort....only so many rooms available.

I have nothing to do with VS....we are just satisfied customers....GREAT to deal with, save you lots of $$ when there is something available.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:45 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattanman View Post
she said that they refused to talk to her and hung up on her. But then again, she could be lying about that as well, right?
For the record, I think the OP was honest about what she felt she'd experienced. My guess is that she would start insisting VS was scamming her and otherwise insulting them (and, yes, saying someone is scamming you is an insult), and at that point they would hang up on her. I don't know if that is the policy there or not, but a lot of companies do have the policy of hanging up on abusive customers, and if the customer is screaming or insulting, that is considered abuse. Whether that's the company policy or not, I wouldn't be surprised if it's how some individuals there would react!

I believe only one person here has accused her of lying, and that was because her BBB comment didn't fit with VS's BBB rating or record on the Internet. I believe she was reporting what someone at BBB had told her on the phone, so I don't think that was a lie. Complaints and the ratings are two different things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattanman View Post
so if you got scammed you would willing self censure and say something else? There is a big difference between less than stellar customer service and the feeling that you are being taken advantage of.
If I thought I'd been scammed, particularly when dealing with something I have never done before, I would ask someone who understood the situation better, "Have I been scammed?" before publicly accusing a company of scamming me. The fact that someone feels they have been taken advantage of, doesn't mean anyone has taken advantage of them. Feelings are not rational, and confusion mixed with anger and frustration feel a lot like getting scammed.

And if you fling accusations before getting the facts in a culture that believes "innocent until proven guilty," you'll often get grief for it.

As far as feelings go, mostly I feel bad for the OP that this happened, and I hope things work out for her and her family. But as far as facts go, I also know there doesn't have to be a bad guy for things to go this wrong. Miscommunication and misunderstandings can cause damage, too.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:02 PM   #113
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For the record, I think the OP was honest about what she felt she'd experienced. My guess is that she would start insisting VS was scamming her and otherwise insulting them (and, yes, saying someone is scamming you is an insult), and at that point they would hang up on her. I don't know if that is the policy there or not, but a lot of companies do have the policy of hanging up on abusive customers, and if the customer is screaming or insulting, that is considered abuse. Whether that's the company policy or not, I wouldn't be surprised if it's how some individuals there would react!

I believe only one person here has accused her of lying, and that was because her BBB comment didn't fit with VS's BBB rating or record on the Internet. I believe she was reporting what someone at BBB had told her on the phone, so I don't think that was a lie. Complaints and the ratings are two different things.




If I thought I'd been scammed, particularly when dealing with something I have never done before, I would ask someone who understood the situation better, "Have I been scammed?" before publicly accusing a company of scamming me. The fact that someone feels they have been taken advantage of, doesn't mean anyone has taken advantage of them. Feelings are not rational, and confusion mixed with anger and frustration feel a lot like getting scammed.

And if you fling accusations before getting the facts in a culture that believes "innocent until proven guilty," you'll often get grief for it.

As far as feelings go, mostly I feel bad for the OP that this happened, and I hope things work out for her and her family. But as far as facts go, I also know there doesn't have to be a bad guy for things to go this wrong. Miscommunication and misunderstandings can cause damage, too.

That's a lot of presumptions, no ? You are willing to infer that someone is lying based on your " guess at what happened".

She thought she was wronged and came here to vent or for advice because she we concerned that the trip she has planned was in jeopardy. Whether she was scammed or not what happened to her stinks.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:31 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattanman View Post
That's a lot of presumptions, no ? You are willing to infer that someone is lying based on your " guess at what happened".

She thought she was wronged and came here to vent or for advice because she we concerned that the trip she has planned was in jeopardy. Whether she was scammed or not what happened to her stinks.
Sorry, manhattanman, but in order for your logic to hold ground, it has to be applied in both directions.

As far as the OP's original story, it has been so mixed up and unclear in places that presumptions are the only way most responders could make much sense about what actually transpired. We had to "guess at what happened" because many of the details she relayed just didn't jive.

Yes, she thought she was wronged. Perhaps she was, perhaps she wasn't. It really is difficult to tell if she really didn't know what she was donig and has come to the incorrect conclusions, or if she truly was treated inappropriately by a business. If she came here for advice, she was given lots of it (and mighty good suggestions, in most cases). If she came here to vent, she should have noted in her original post that she did not want any guidance or advice.....that she just wanted to get it all off her chest.

The truth is, though, NONE of us can conclusively determine that she was scammed by VS. Scammed? Yes, it sounds as if she truly might have been. But the OP has yet to provide anything clear and convincing that VS is without a doubt the one to blame. And for most folks, coming onto a public forum and declaring a company is scamming customers without the proper supporting proof means that that business was wronged.

The courtesy must run both ways.

I think all of us feel badly for the OP. It certainly sounds as if her vacation plans took a real nose dive, and no one wants that stress for their first trip (or their 100th, for that matter). But many of us also feel badly for VS, as they may be getting a public lashing for something they didn't do. I think most posters are simply trying to see the situation from both sides of the issue. And quite honestly, that's when the BEST advice can be offered up.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:33 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by shalom View Post
I believe only one person here has accused her of lying, and that was because her BBB comment didn't fit with VS's BBB rating or record on the Internet. I believe she was reporting what someone at BBB had told her on the phone, so I don't think that was a lie. Complaints and the ratings are two different things.
VS earned their BBB rating, in part,
because:
Quote:
factors that raised Vacation Strategy, LLC's rating include:

No complaints filed with BBB.
BBB has sufficient background information on this business.
The OP offered a link to a Cancun time share complaint. Maybe she called the BBB and said something like I'm having problems with a timeshare. I'm sure timeshares in general generate a lot of complaints.

I don't think the OP contacted the BBB, gave them the correct name for VS and was told the company has a lot of complaints. Check other companies. Companies with hundreds of complaints can still get A ratings.

The information she posted is not correct. I don't know if she is literally lying, just assumed there were complaints or got the name wrong when she contacted the BBB.

The point is I don't put any credibility in what she posts.

I"ll speculate thought paying the deposit guaranteed the booking.

Maybe it's the way we define words. A company runs a scam when they cheat a significant percentage of their customers. One example isn't a scam, it might be a mistake.

I have no doubt the OP thought she had a confirmed reservation The fact that she didn't properly read the emails, or maybe even if VS made an error and sent the wrong email, doesn't mean the company is running a scam.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:39 AM   #116
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That's a lot of presumptions, no ? You are willing to infer that someone is lying based on your " guess at what happened".
You kind of have it reversed. VS has an A- rating with the BBB. BBB shows zero complaints. We can either make presumptions, "guess at what happened" or we can just call her a liar.

Any comments she made regarding VS has to be judged against her BBB comments. Do I literally think she's making the entire thing up? Probably not but that's the conclusion which doesn't require any presumptions. VS gave their side of the story. Sounds credible to me. Given their track record VS has a lot more credibility.

You want presumptions. I'll speculate OP didn't realize paying a deposit after hours wasn't enough to hold the reservation. I'll speculate the OP called the BBB made some comment about timeshares and was told something like those business get a lot of complaints.

FWIW Wyndham Bonnet Creek doesn't have a BBB rating. Checking WBC gets you to Wyndham Vacation Ownership which earned a F rating.

JMO But I don't there are really 2 sides to this story. The OP decided to libel VS. There is no other side to the BBB comments. The comment was wrong.

edited to add--If I had a bad experience at a restaurant I wouldn't falsely tell people the Board of Health had a lot of complaints about that restaurant.

She had a bad experience. I wouldn't be posting if she didn't accuse VS of being a scam and didn't make up BBB complaints.

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Old 12-05-2012, 10:16 AM   #117
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Sorry, manhattanman, but in order for your logic to hold ground, it has to be applied in both directions.

We had to "guess at what happened" because many of the details she relayed just didn't jive.

Yes, she thought she was wronged. Perhaps she was, perhaps she wasn't. It really is difficult to tell if she really didn't know what she was donig and has come to the incorrect conclusions, or if she truly was treated inappropriately by a business. If she came here for advice, she was given lots of it (and mighty good suggestions, in most cases). If she came here to vent, she should have noted in her original post that she did not want any guidance or advice.....that she just wanted to get it all off her chest.

The truth is, though, NONE of us can conclusively determine that she was scammed by VS. Scammed? Yes, it sounds as if she truly might have been. But the OP has yet to provide anything clear and convincing that VS is without a doubt the one to blame. And for most folks, coming onto a public forum and declaring a company is scamming customers without the proper supporting proof means that that business was wronged.

The courtesy must run both ways.

I think all of us feel badly for the OP. It certainly sounds as if her vacation plans took a real nose dive, and no one wants that stress for their first trip (or their 100th, for that matter). But many of us also feel badly for VS, as they may be getting a public lashing for something they didn't do. I think most posters are simply trying to see the situation from both sides of the issue. And quite honestly, that's when the BEST advice can be offered up.
If you dont know what happened, why not ask for clarificantion first before decrying her as a liar ?

I dont know what happened and I have no axe to grind with VS. I am a junior member here, but it is nice to know that if I ever have an experience with a company or property with a presence here that does not jive with the collective experience, i know to hold my tongue, lest I be called a liar.

The OP might not have been the most savvy with TS ( neither am I) and she might have incorrectly thought that she was wronged. In that case the kind thing to do is explain why she was mistaken, not overtly question her motivations or explicitly call her a liar.

I'm done with this thread as I have no dog in this fight, if the OP wants to expand on her story, she can but I suspect she has ample reason not to now. In my short time here I have been overwhelmed with the amount of GREAT information these boards contain. I had hoped that people would try to get the whole story before passing judgement on someone who plans to go to disney apparently went south instead of relying on presumptions derived from a murky story or that VS ( or any other company) is infallible and could never make a mistake because someone had a good experience with them in the past. I guess I stand corrected.

If the OP is still reading this, I re-iterate that irrespective of who was at fault, I'm sorry that your plans are in jeopardy and hope that everything works out.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:28 AM   #118
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If you dont know what happened, why not ask for clarificantion first before decrying her as a liar ?
I am at a loss to find where I referred to the OP as a liar.
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Jan. 2009....onsite at POR: all 4 Disney Parks
Jan. 2012....offsite on I-Drive: Universal Studios, IOA, SeaWorld, & Discovery Cove
Aug. 2012...Westgate Lakes Resort & Spa: Aquatica, Discovery Cove, and more
Dec. 2012...onsite at SW! Christmas week at SeaWorld, Aquatica, Gatorland, airboats, & holiday fun
**Christmas 2012 Trip Report: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3041415
Aug. 2013....Sheraton Vistana Resort: Blizzard Beach, Typhoon Lagoon, Cocoa Beach & more! **August 2013 Trip Report: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3167818

Aug. 2014.....SVR, SW, DC, AQ, TL, Daytona & MORE! **August 2014 Trip Report: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=51863899


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Old 12-05-2012, 10:42 AM   #119
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That's a lot of presumptions, no ? You are willing to infer that someone is lying based on your " guess at what happened".
I specifically said she was honest and that I believed she was telling the truth as she understood it. How does that "infer that someone is lying"?

Depending on the circumstances, you can be sued for libel even if you told the truth as you understood it -- the plaintiff just has to show that the truth was accessible and you didn't look for it before publishing your opinion. At least when it comes to libel against individuals, only if someone libels a movie star or the like does intentional malice come into things.

How that works with companies and corporations, I don't know, but I do know that libel applies even if the person was honest, but wrong.

But, for the purpose of clarity, no, I don't think the OP was lying. She herself said she was confused, and I believe her. My point is that being confused does not excuse falsely accusing someone else of a crime. Having a feeling is not the same as knowing the facts, and most people expect you to know what you're talking about when you accuse someone of a crime.

Saying someone is likely wrong is not the same as calling them a liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina View Post
The courtesy must run both ways.

I think all of us feel badly for the OP. It certainly sounds as if her vacation plans took a real nose dive, and no one wants that stress for their first trip (or their 100th, for that matter). But many of us also feel badly for VS, as they may be getting a public lashing for something they didn't do. I think most posters are simply trying to see the situation from both sides of the issue. And quite honestly, that's when the BEST advice can be offered up.
Exactly. When there's clear evidence that someone was wronged, then it's time to take sides. Until that point, give both sides the benefit of the doubt, instead of taking the side of the one who is crying the loudest or harmed the most. Misunderstandings and hasty accusations are more common than outright crime.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:50 AM   #120
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I am at a loss to find where I referred to the OP as a liar.
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