DVC RESALES
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by AllieV View Post
Huh. Anyone know the history of how often they underestimate? I'm curious how this works for people who buy from disney direct. Are they also on the hook for the prior year since they probably got those points in their current year for use?
I haven't paid that close of attention but think that 2009 or 2010 was a year where I saw more over estimates. It has varied resort to resort in a single year and one might have been under estimated while another was over estimated. And it's why I was thinking the charts tracking dues really ought to be updated with the difference because they are not actual since DVC can and does either take or give back the tax difference.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by AllieV View Post
Huh. Anyone know the history of how often they underestimate? I'm curious how this works for people who buy from disney direct. Are they also on the hook for the prior year since they probably got those points in their current year for use?
We only own 100 points (at AKV) but since 2008, the difference between actual and estimated has totaled less than $10, or about $0.10/point, each year. I don't have the data in fromt of me, but I don't recall any years that the tax was underestimated. In regards to the "value" of a resale, I don't think the discrepancy is enough to change it since it is usually just a few cents on the dollar. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieV View Post
Huh. Anyone know the history of how often they underestimate? I'm curious how this works for people who buy from disney direct. Are they also on the hook for the prior year since they probably got those points in their current year for use?
There were a few years when the fees were overestimated and actually resulted in a decrease in maintenance fees the following year. Underestimates have been more common, but rarely have amounted to more than a few $ based on recollection.

The DVC Resource Center has a lot of historical information including the annual fees since 1991 but here is the list thru 2012 (the years bolded are when some resorts annual fees went down due to property taxes):

Year OKW VB(s) VB HH - BWV VWL -BCV SSR AKV -BLT VGC AHV(s) AHV

2013 5.34 5.79 7.40 6.02 5.84 5.79 5.64 4.81 5.67 4.50 4.58 4.70 6.25
2012 5.20 5.58 7.12 5.93 5.62 5.61 5.50 4.73 5.44 4.22 4.33 4.48 5.96
2011 4.98 5.31 6.78 5.68 5.46 5.34 5.28 4.51 5.01 3.89 4.07 4.31 5.73
2010 4.87 5.18 6.61 5.57 5.36 5.20 5.15 4.46 4.95 3.78 3.94
2009 4.73 4.97 6.41 5.36 5.21 5.04 5.00 4.34 4.85 3.67 3.82
2008 4.56 4.71 6.04 5.16 5.04 4.87 4.80 4.21 4.71
2007 4.40 4.39 5.63 4.98 4.85 4.73 4.63 4.12 4.62
2006 4.24 4.12 5.27 4.34 4.69 4.61 4.48 3.98
2005 3.86 3.84 4.87 3.86 4.41 4.35 4.27 3.83
2004 3.68 3.67 4.67 3.70 4.25 4.22 4.18 3.80
2003 3.49 3.37 4.37 3.69 4.11 4.05 3.97
2002 3.22 3.33 4.17 3.49 3.92 3.80 3.77
2001 3.13 2.70 3.98 3.32 3.83 3.63
2000 3.16 2.87 4.07 3.25 3.94 3.62
1999 3.16 2.82 3.99 3.18 4.02
1998 3.17 2.76 ---- 3.20 3.94
1997 3.14 2.90 ---- 3.16 3.84
1996 2.99 2.82 ---- 3.16 3.70
1995 2.84 2.76
1994 2.70
1993 2.63
1992 2.56
1991 2.51
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:05 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by AllieV View Post
Huh. Anyone know the history of how often they underestimate? I'm curious how this works for people who buy from disney direct. Are they also on the hook for the prior year since they probably got those points in their current year for use?
The estimates are wrong every year. It isn't until DVC gets the actual statement from the county that they can accurately account for the dollars.

But the variance is never more than a few pennies per point. An owner of 200 points isn't going to see dues impacted by more than $10-20 for the entire year.

If DVC has under-estimated taxes and the member makes monthly payments on their dues, the full adjustment will be billed in January along with 1/12 of the new year dues.

If DVC has over-estimated taxes and there is a credit, it will be spread evenly over all 12 payments for the new year.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:18 PM   #80
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So I'm going to come out and say that the values posted by Webmaster Doc are simply misleading. Anyone can go on dvcmember.com and look at their dues. The tax adjustment was put in place before any bill was sent to anyone. So no matter if you paid on a monthly basis or all at once, you still pay the same amount. That amount was NOT $4.73/point this last year for SSR.

This may seem petty and I agree it's not very important. Still, we have an opportunity to be exact and there is no reason not to be.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #81
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So I'm going to come out and say that the values posted by Webmaster Doc are simply misleading. Anyone can go on dvcmember.com and look at their dues. The tax adjustment was put in place before any bill was sent to anyone.
I don't think anyone ever claimed that those were the amounts billed. Those are the annual budget projections as issued by DVC. Are the numbers a perfect representation of the cost of owning DVC? No. But going back 20 years they are the only numbers publicly available for all resorts.

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So no matter if you paid on a monthly basis or all at once, you still pay the same amount. That amount was NOT $4.73/point this last year for SSR.
Depends.

If you purchased SSR points direct from DVC on January 1, 2012 then $4.73 per point is the EXACT amount you would have paid for the year. A buyer on 1/1/12 would not have received any adjustment from 2011.

This also illustrates another way in which adjustments complicate matters. Dues are pro-rated from the date of purchase and the corresponding adjustments / corrections will also be pro-rated.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:23 PM   #82
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I don't think anyone ever claimed that those were the amounts billed. Those are the annual budget projections as issued by DVC. Are the numbers a perfect representation of the cost of owning DVC? No. But going back 20 years they are the only numbers publicly available for all resorts.
So we have the ability with this board to know the exact numbers. Why aren't we doing that?

Quote:
Depends.

If you purchased SSR points direct from DVC on January 1, 2012 then $4.73 per point is the EXACT amount you would have paid for the year. A buyer on 1/1/12 would not have received any adjustment from 2011.
I guess I don't believe you. If I look at dvcmember.com it shows that the tax pro-ration for 2012 was done on 12/17/11. Long before 1/1/12. So in your hypothetical situation, the purchaser on 1/1 would have paid $4.70 per point because the tax situation would have already been resolved.

Does DVC publish new numbers after the Member's Meeting? Why do you believe the number was $4.73 instead of the actual paid number of $4.70?

Quote:
This also illustrates another way in which adjustments complicate matters. Dues are pro-rated from the date of purchase and the corresponding adjustments / corrections will also be pro-rated.
Perhaps this is how it is actually done (I'd have to go back and look at my purchase documents to see what I was charged) but it obviously need not be done that way. Since the tax adjustments are accomplished before the bills go out for the year, the actual values are known and the pro-rations should be accurate without having to take into account any adjustments/corrections. Those were already accomplished at the beginning of the year. No need to pull them forward.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:54 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Mousewerks View Post
So we have the ability with this board to know the exact numbers. Why aren't we doing that?
Where are the numbers going to come from? Who keeps track of prior year property tax adjustments...much less 20 years' worth?

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Does DVC publish new numbers after the Member's Meeting? Why do you believe the number was $4.73 instead of the actual paid number of $4.70?


I agree that the numbers posted and discussed here are not a full and complete financial picture for each resort. There are adjustments made at the beginning of each year to account for under- or over-estimates tax estimates made in the prior year.

But having gone through this nearly 10 years now, I would propose that the adjustments are high just as often as they are low. For 2012, on $1355 in dues, I was personally credited $6.59 for overpayment of taxes in 2011. And that's all the data I have available, even for my own points.

Over the long haul, I doubt there will be a material difference in the dollars paid. One year taxes may be over-estimated by $10.00. The next year they'll be under-estimated by $8.00.

You are certainly welcome to perform your own calculations based upon actual dollars paid. But if you want to talk about year-to-year percentage changes, you will have to wait until the adjustments for 2012 taxes are posted to your account. Your 2013 dues for SSR will not be $4.8129 x points owned. It will be $4.8129 x points owned, PLUS or MINUS adjustments for 2012 taxes.
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