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Old 11-24-2012, 07:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by luvmy3 View Post
There is no difference, people just need to be outraged at something. They all sound like a bunch of whiny hypocrits when they start talking about how wrong it is for stores to be open, but its okay for restaurants, movies, hotels, theme parks etc to be open.
Here is the big difference in my eyes, people are not behaving in a very nice way on these pre Black Friday sales, at least at a movie theater people aren't killing each other for a few pennies off. I have worked retail, black Friday and I have worked at a call center for a major credit card on Christmas day and at a hospital on Christmas day. I would take Christmas day at the call center or hospital over any after Thanksgiving day in a retail store. Totally different mentality, and people should have a day of peace before they have to deal with all the greed and pushing and shoving. Does that make me a whiney hypocrite?
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:14 PM   #47
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I think the retailers who are promoting this have backed themselves into a corner now. There are folks like me (we have a Wal-Mart, a Stage, a Rue 21, a couple of Dollar Stores, hardware stores and an Office Depot not including the little Main Street boutiquey places - where I WILL be shopping tomorrow for Small Business Saturday!) who feel even MORE squicky about shopping in their stores, and they've got these madhouses of shopping that probably cost an arm and a leg to staff. . .but has their net for the entire season changed any???
Small Business Saturday was today.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:44 PM   #48
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Honor Thanksgiving-close the retail stores! But keep the restaurants and movie theaters open because someone may need a break.
I don't even know what to say other than your logic is so *** backwards.
If an open business benefits or entertains certain people, of course it's logical to be open. Those workers are there to serve THEM!!! But if they're not interested in shopping on that day, it's immoral and evil and the owners are exploiting their poor workers.

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I think the retailers who are promoting this have backed themselves into a corner now. There are folks like me (we have a Wal-Mart, a Stage, a Rue 21, a couple of Dollar Stores, hardware stores and an Office Depot not including the little Main Street boutiquey places - where I WILL be shopping tomorrow for Small Business Saturday!) who feel even MORE squicky about shopping in their stores, and they've got these madhouses of shopping that probably cost an arm and a leg to staff. . .but has their net for the entire season changed any???
Not quite sure what you're trying to say, but at the end, if you're wondering if a store's gross sales will be higher for the entire season by opening on T-giving, I'm skeptical. The people who shopped T-giving night aren't likely to buy another TV or XBox or whatever during the rest of the shopping season. They just bought it earlier than they normally would have. Stores could have saved on overhead and labor by staying closed, and the same amount of gross sales would have occurred before Xmas anyway.

Even though TG was the earliest it could be this year, and many stores extended their open hours, I'm sure there will be plenty of lame excuses for disappointing sales figures come January.

Jim
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:44 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by kaytieeldr View Post
Very seriously - when did Small Business Saturday move to Sunday? Not giving you a hard time, but I'm 100% positive today is Saturday.
I realized that this morning! I was having pain management issues yesterday and got the days mixed up. Not to worry. I think most of their sales will be good this week.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:02 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by LBIJim View Post
If an open business benefits or entertains certain people, of course it's logical to be open. Those workers are there to serve THEM!!! But if they're not interested in shopping on that day, it's immoral and evil and the owners are exploiting their poor workers.



Not quite sure what you're trying to say, but at the end, if you're wondering if a store's gross sales will be higher for the entire season by opening on T-giving, I'm skeptical. The people who shopped T-giving night aren't likely to buy another TV or XBox or whatever during the rest of the shopping season. They just bought it earlier than they normally would have. Stores could have saved on overhead and labor by staying closed, and the same amount of gross sales would have occurred before Xmas anyway.

Even though TG was the earliest it could be this year, and many stores extended their open hours, I'm sure there will be plenty of lame excuses for disappointing sales figures come January.

Jim
Pretty much. Yesterday was a bit of a pain addled day for me and I was a bit (bit? try a lot!) disconnected.

All they've done is created an atmosphere where they will spend more to sell items that cost less and made some of their more upscale consumers squicky about shopping with them. That's a win?

There's a theory out there that's been out there for about, oh, 10-15 years that comes from some Swedish (I think) economist. I could go look it up, but still not feeling well, so that will have to wait.

The theory is that the huge salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes that are paid to the top officers of companies are very detrimental to the health of companies in the long term. There is no way that these officers will ever feel a real impact in their own lives due to the failures or expenses of the companies they manage. In a strange sense, they are only playing to win, not working for a long-term benefit in their lives or the lives of anyone else, thus they are disconnected in many ways from the reality of what they are doing to their companies.

In a very small way, Gray Thursday is an example of this. Retailers have bought into the idea of winning over considering the long term cost/benefit of playing the Gray Thursday game, because those making the decisions have only a egotistical stake in the game. (I don't think egotistical is quite what I wanted, but I can't find a better word. Ego-driven?) Maybe I'm wrong and there is evidence that Gray Thursday is so helpful to a company's net for the year that it simply must be done, but I do wonder.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:12 AM   #51
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Having been in retail BEFORE we went to Thanksgiving openings, stores made oodles of money when it was just Black Friday. I experienced the first midnight opening of the store last year, and being open an extra 5 hours really didn't help the store all that much. The mobs that used to come early in the morning came in the middle of the night (and it was true mob mentality), and then things fizzled out during the day. I get that stores are in business to make money and not to accommodate families. However, I will NEVER understand the mentality of shopping on a national holiday. At this point the stores have been forced to open in the middle of the night, because that's when shoppers are out. Why not open in the night between Black Friday and Saturday? Shoppers get their middle of the night fun(?) and associates get the holiday with their families. Makes a lot more sense.

And my explanation of Thanksgiving was a very general statement. Having grown up in NH, we've had that history hammered into our heads
Would that include:

New Year's Day
Fourth of July
Memorial Day
Labor Day

All national holidays - yet amazingly no outrage over stores being open then.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #52
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We have become a 24/7/365 society.I worked graveyard shift (11 pm to 7 am) from 1980 to 2005. Almost nothing was open overnight in 1980, maybe Dennys. In those days 7-11 Stores were open.....shockingly....from 7 am to 11 pm.
By 2005 7-11 ws 24 hours, as were a lot of places. Just this week, Dutch Brothers, a coffee chain that has kiosks in shopping center parking lots....decided to experiement with being open 24 hours.
So New York City is no longer the only city that never sleeps.
I agree. This is a much larger trend than one huge sale. It's not just retail workers who have to be there on a holiday, it's office workers tied to their cell phones, laptops on vacation "just to check on things", teachers bringing work home on the weekends, and so many others. "Bankers' hours" and "blue laws" and all of those quaint things have disappeared, and I'm afraid the lack of boundries is going to be bad for all of us in the long run.

So no, I didn't shop on Thursday (or in the middle of the night) and I hope it doesn't get even worse.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by mickeysgal View Post
Would that include:

New Year's Day
Fourth of July
Memorial Day
Labor Day

All national holidays - yet amazingly no outrage over stores being open then.
ironically, some companies find New Year's Eve to be a holiday but no New Year's Day... weird...

Black Friday
Small Business Saturday
Sun? <-- is there any?
Cyber Monday
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:13 PM   #54
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Would that include:

New Year's Day
Fourth of July
Memorial Day
Labor Day

All national holidays - yet amazingly no outrage over stores being open then.
You want outrage? I'm (albeit mildly) outraged that so many businesses are closed on an early Spring Sunday observance that isn't even a legal holiday.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:40 PM   #55
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You want outrage? I'm (albeit mildly) outraged that so many businesses are closed on an early Spring Sunday observance that isn't even a legal holiday.
What is an early Spring Sunday? Easter?
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:09 PM   #56
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Your beliefs sound alot like whining to me.
As far as what used to be, well that was then and this is now, and anyone going in to retail can accept that working holidays is a part of that, or they can look for another job where they won't be required to work on those days. Retail establishments are there to make money, being in retail I guess I would have assumed you would understand that. If consumers have no problem spending Thanksgiving at the mall instead of at home, then good for them for staying open that day.
And Thanksgiving has nothing to do with having the nation we have, you might want to brush up on your history
Totally agree with this post.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:49 PM   #57
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Wonder why jobs are going to China and India? Workers in China and India dont whine and complain.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:01 PM   #58
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Wonder why jobs are going to China and India? Workers in China and India dont whine and complain.
they do, we just dont see them/hear about it. Its actually a lot worse than the US.

A lot of them has to do with Foxconn and Apple.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:06 PM   #59
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Wonder why jobs are going to China and India? Workers in China and India dont whine and complain.
Really? And here I thought it was to increase profits.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:16 PM   #60
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The public has spoken with their wallets. They want businesses open on Thanksgiving Day. People are saying, "if you don't want to work on Thanksgiving Day, find another job." They are saying, "be thankful you have a job." I guess I am in the minority, but I refuse to shop on Thanksgiving Day. Yes, there are things that have to be open, hospitals, pharmacies, and I totally understand that -- my daughter is an RN.
Actually the public spoke, but you're attempting to put words in their mouth they didn't utter. They said they want a bargain. Nothing more. And they've gone for that bargain just the same back in the days when it started at 8 am Friday, 5am Friday, 4am Friday, or midnight. The public isn't going to buy an extra TV because they got one Thursday at 8pm instead of Friday at 5am. All opening Thanksgiving does is shift some shoppers from one time to another and cost all the stores more in electricity and the like. But once K-mart stated opening on Thursdays, I knew it was just a matter of time before they all did. When one store does it, it benefits them. That is until they all do it too and then all it does is cost em all more to stay open the extra hours.
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