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Old 02-27-2013, 06:13 AM   #3736
MoonFaerie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annmarieda View Post
I can't say for sure how a person lied. I am just repeating what I was told.... And that was that someone said they lied in order to get into corral A in order to have time to stop for pictures. Putting down a finish time of 2:45, I wouldn't think would get you into A, but maybe? I have also read about "official" races that are not chipped where participants turn in their own times to the race officials who then document the "official" results. If this does in fact happen, then I would think someone could turn in an incorrect time and that then would become their "official" time that could be turned in as proof of time.

All of this is what I would take issue with- not run/walkers maintaining their pace for their corral or even walkers on the course. I take issue not because I have some right to or even want to PR... But because it shows (in my opinion) a lack of courtesy to everyone else trying to have a nice time and do their best.
It wouldn't. It would put you in corral D. Or would have this year. That's what time I put down. I think I could have gotten moved up to the back of the pack in C at the expo, but I didn't because I knew I was already dropping back my run intervals because of the heat.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:27 AM   #3737
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The congestion issue can be solved in a number if ways

1) start race at 5am and have longer times between corrals

2) less people in each corral = adding more corrals

3) less people all together

4) less character stops OR space them out better. More on the highways less bank to back in MK

I vote for earlier start particularly in hot weather. It was crowded, when I wanted to run harder I couldn't, but I was totally fine with all that

I came to princess to run with girlfriends, have a unique experience, and take a bunch of goofy pictures. Mission accomplished. It wasn't pretty, but it was fun!

Everyone runs for their own reasons- I think this is not the race for some people due to congestion and higher run walkers. Doesn't mean you don't have the right to run it, just means you might need to accept it going in and find a way to just keep swimming! We were in C and quickly fell back to d and e due to pictures. Finished with G runners but I think we took almost every pic on the course. Which was stupid fun.

Tinkeramy and saysay need their own fan club- so fun to run with these gals!
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:28 AM   #3738
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Not sure about the whole issue run vs. walk vs. run/walkers.

I trained to run this with the hopes of a 2 hour time. And to do that I needed "all the stars to aline", but Wednesday before the race I was sick and was in bed and Saturday night before the race I had a horrible headache and hadn't eaten since our lunch around 1pm. Add in the heat and HUMIDITY and I wasn't sure what would happen.

I did not run the whole race. By mile 4 I was throwing in some short walk breaks. I am now home and have been able to look at my sports watch with GPS info and see what happened. First, when I plugged it into my computer it came up with a message I had PR'd the half with a 2:06 (that's when my GPS got to 13.1) , BUT the distance I ran before crossing the finish line was 13.3 according to my GPS and my clock time from active is 2:09 and is 10 sec. shorter than my watch time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:37 AM   #3739
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Originally Posted by Never to old View Post

So here is my next question. If you can't do it in less than 2.45 is worth even sending anything in? Or are the later corrals filled by when you register?
They are all time based:

Elite* 1 - 30 < 1:30
A* 31 - 2961 < 2:15
B* 2962 - 5924 < 2:30
C 5925 - 8667 < 2:45
D 8668 - 11343 < 2:50
E 11344 - 14009 < 3:00
F 14010 - 16608 3:00
G 16609 - 19296 < 3:20
H 19297 - 22290
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:43 AM   #3740
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I really, REALLY don't think this is a runners vs. walkers thing. It's mainly logistics. The field is too big and the course is too tight. Even if someone lied about their time to get in A, if they are much slower than they will be naturally shaken out soon after the run starts.

That being said, it WOULD benefit Dis greatly to at least spot check the submitted times. For those who don't know, I'm pretty sure that runDisney does NOT check all those submitted times. I like the previous poster's idea about at least spot checking and those who gave an invalid race / time get automatically moved to H. So,yes, you are basically counting on people's honesty.

However, all that being said, I think it would still be a minimal impact if the course supported the field. I'm a hybrid - I am a slightly faster runner - between a 10:00 and 10:30 pace - but I also do run/ walk, usually run half a mile and walk 1 minute. I've earned a Corral B placement each of the 3 years I've done this and started in C the last 2 years with friends. This is the first year I have seen such bottlenecking.

My inexperienced opinion is that this race needs to be capped at 20,000, or many, many more corrals added. I've run the Peachtree Road Race 10K the last couple of years (60K runners) and they have corrals A-Y! It's crowded, but not to the point where you just can't get around. They also run along a course that provides 4-5 lanes of road.

Finally - where are the princesses?!?! I mean, this is the PRINCESS half marathon. Why aren't all the princess characters out in full force? In the MK we saw Belle and then Cinderella, about to be switched out with Aurora. At the very least, they could do what they do with the heroes - a bundle of princesses all at one stop. Just kind of a pet peeve for someone who does this for fun and pictures (and does NOT lie to get into B corral! )
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:44 AM   #3741
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As a spectator, I couldn't believe the number of runners getting off the buses at Epcot when I did. I think it was around 5:15, and there were still runners mingling around the buses. I then took the monorail to TTC and there were still runners getting ON there to head to Epcot. It must have been 5:30 at that point as I had to wait for the monorail at Epcot. Some had C on their bibs!
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:48 AM   #3742
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Originally Posted by StarGirl11 View Post
I am not sure splitting racers up into two groups would exactly solve the problem since that leaves a third group out in the open. Those of us that run/walk. I can't speak for everyone who uses the method but I can't personally sustain a run for more than 3 minutes at a time. If we're talking beginning of a race and the weather is good I maybe able to go at it for five but that's pushing it. So maybe three lanes, because I sure don't want to weave in out of cones that would be set up?

I do agree that something needs to be done about the congestion though. Before I got sick around mile 4 I must have hopped onto the grass at least half a dozen times so I was actually making ground during my run intervals because I couldn't find any room to get through near me.

Hoping that they may cut the race cap for next year's Princess. They increased the cap too much and didn't think about the consequences.
Don't get me wrong. I definitely walked a bit myself. But before I stopped running I looked behind me...and tried to get out of the way of people coming up behind me. I really didn't see any of that. People walking 5 abreast... right down the middle of the course... They only thing that saved me a few times was people had alarms on their watches that would beep when it was time to walk, so I had warning they were going to stop right in front of me.

It was my first half marathon, so maybe that's just to be expected... but it was still disappointing.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:49 AM   #3743
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We headed home Sunday night, so I am jealous of all you Princesses who stayed longer!

The heat and humidity were wretched during the race. I was having TOT flashbacks, but then I realized that was just how I remembered TOT and that race was a lot worse!

Last year was my first PHM, so here's a quick redux of '12 vs '13:
Transportation: Both years left our room in BC at 3:45-- last year was right on the bus with almost no traffic; this year waited in line for 30 mins or so and then waited in traffic for another 20-30 mins

Walk to corrals: Last year had a long circuitous walk through the Epcot parking lot just to get to bag check while this year was more direct but did have a weird bottle-neck into the staging area; Last year had the death-march past the portapotty lines while this year was no problem; Last year barely made it to the corral areas for start of A while this year we made it into the corrals about 5-10 minutes before the wheelchair start.

Corrals: Last year qualified for B but dropped back to D to run with a friend and the course was very crowded-- ran over 14 miles during the race course; this year qualified for A and it was _much_ easier to get around!

Time: Last year felt like we couldn't stop for pictures and finished in 2:32; this year stopped for every character line (>25 stops) and spend about 45 minutes total standing in line giving a finish time of 2:50

Weather: Last year was just a tad on the cold side (seized up if we stopped to long); this year was way too hot and humid-- I actually think the weather would have been _better_ if we had started a bit later. Once the sun came up, the breeze picked up.

Overall, I had a lot of fun, but I did not enjoy the weather. It was great to start in corral A because it let us run the first 5K (except for a water stop). We started about 3/4 of the way back in A (knowing we'd be running just under 10min miles). It was clear pretty early that we were not going to hit our goal time. I saw the first man come buzzing by just after the 5K mats. We started stopping for pictures once the course split off (at the Villains). The lines for Mickey and Minnie and Cinderella were both over 5 mins, but the others were usually 1-2 min. (I was sad the 10K mat was after the Cinderella line, because that made our 5K-10K split terrible.) After MK, most of the time we were running in a mix of A, B, and C corral-ers, and even when the slower runners passed us while we were in character lines, it wasn't a problem to pass them back once we started running again. I saw surprisingly few people down on the course for medical attention (except for one man who passed out at the top of the overpass) as compared to last year, but that may have been because we started earlier. I was surprised how many people were still behind us this year, given how much slower we were than last year. Due to the humidity I had to start drinking some watered-down Powerade on the course at about mile 7 (could start to feel some burning in my thighs) which lead to a bit of nausea by the end. I definitely hydrated well leading up to the race, so that wasn't a problem! There were so many people at the parks with Princess medals/gear! I guess that's what happens when 6000 more runners register.

One last note on the Expo-- we were there from about 1:30-3:30 on Saturday. Things had pretty much quieted down by that point, and the only long line was for Raw Threads. Since I wasn't a fan of the pink shirts or the super flowery Princess script on everything, we didn't bother with the runDisney merchandise until the very end, when it was mostly picked through (except there were still plenty of D&B bags). I did get the vinylmation and medal. I really hope they move it back to WWoS because it CSR clearly couldn't deal with the traffic-- the line to get on the bus back to DTD was crazy!
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:28 AM   #3744
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Just wanted to chime in re: congestion and corrals.

I think I may be echoing a few other princesses here, but I don't believe the issue was incorrect corral placement but rather just too many people on the course overall.

For example, I was placed in C with a sub 12 minute mile from a chipped 10K I did in November. According to my Runkeeper, as long as I was moving, I kept up that same pace on the course. However, after adding in picture stops, I finished with an overall course average of a 15 minute mile. Does that mean I should have been placed in that corral instead? Probably not, but I can tell you that I ended up finishing with people from all sorts of corrals.

The problem with pacing and bottlenecks on this course doesn't seem to be runners vs. walkers or people in the wrong corral. I think it's people who run for different reasons. The people who just want to have fun are going to fall back due to photos and stops, while the racers are going to want to lead the packs (no matter their pace). I'm not sure how you balance the two, but that's what I observed from my trek along the course.

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Old 02-27-2013, 09:06 AM   #3745
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This has been interesting to read.


I wonder if runDisney has followed the race management strategies for other larger races - they do have partnerships w runners world, Galloway, etc - but failed to factor in the picture stops, greater proportion of first timers, and run walkers.

I ran a half marathon a few years ago (actually I'm wearing the tech shirt for it right now... Weird) that was organized around the sole concept of motivating non runners to run, as a push for health. They partnered w the couch 2 5k type stuff and a ton of people on the course were run/walkers. It was so annoying to me because I did not know what was going on, but looking back on it they mostly had pretty good etiquette and stayed to the side. I'm pretty sure that was part of the training, so it did not affect me at all. I was passed by many of these people even though I jogged the whole thing!!

Anyway, it just sounds like disney races are a different beast entirely and need to be managed as such. But they have a pretty good track record for creative problem solving when necessary. Hopefully they can work it out.

If anyone from runDisney reads these... I started running again basically for the sole purpose of wanting to complete a disney race. But the more I read about them, I feel like I will wait a few years until I qualify for A because I don't see the race being that enjoyable for runners who don't want pictures, etc. I hope that changes. However... I am glad that I am running at all! I will be choosing local races though.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:45 AM   #3746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkeramy View Post
I really, REALLY don't think this is a runners vs. walkers thing. It's mainly logistics. The field is too big and the course is too tight. Even if someone lied about their time to get in A, if they are much slower than they will be naturally shaken out soon after the run starts.

That being said, it WOULD benefit Dis greatly to at least spot check the submitted times. For those who don't know, I'm pretty sure that runDisney does NOT check all those submitted times. I like the previous poster's idea about at least spot checking and those who gave an invalid race / time get automatically moved to H. So,yes, you are basically counting on people's honesty.

However, all that being said, I think it would still be a minimal impact if the course supported the field. I'm a hybrid - I am a slightly faster runner - between a 10:00 and 10:30 pace - but I also do run/ walk, usually run half a mile and walk 1 minute. I've earned a Corral B placement each of the 3 years I've done this and started in C the last 2 years with friends. This is the first year I have seen such bottlenecking.

My inexperienced opinion is that this race needs to be capped at 20,000, or many, many more corrals added. I've run the Peachtree Road Race 10K the last couple of years (60K runners) and they have corrals A-Y! It's crowded, but not to the point where you just can't get around. They also run along a course that provides 4-5 lanes of road.

Finally - where are the princesses?!?! I mean, this is the PRINCESS half marathon. Why aren't all the princess characters out in full force? In the MK we saw Belle and then Cinderella, about to be switched out with Aurora. At the very least, they could do what they do with the heroes - a bundle of princesses all at one stop. Just kind of a pet peeve for someone who does this for fun and pictures (and does NOT lie to get into B corral! )
Totally with you...don't think it was so much people doing intervals although.....PLEASE move to the side of the road ! Actually raised my voice to a princess runner outside the castle in MK as they stopped right in front of me ! it was my first half and I can say the congestion added a good 10 min overall to my time. Humidity didn't bother me since it can be pretty much like that in San Antonio and we have learned a cup of water and powerade at every mile. And where was the water after the clif gel ????..glad I had my own or I probably would have chocked !

Yes...where we're the Princesses ?. Had to go to MK to stand in line for pics though that might have worked better since I had my blinking crown and medal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISNEYFOS View Post
Don't get me wrong. I definitely walked a bit myself. But before I stopped running I looked behind me...and tried to get out of the way of people coming up behind me. I really didn't see any of that. People walking 5 abreast... right down the middle of the course... They only thing that saved me a few times was people had alarms on their watches that would beep when it was time to walk, so I had warning they were going to stop right in front of me.

It was my first half marathon, so maybe that's just to be expected... but it was still disappointing.
Agree....agree...agree.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #3747
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Returned home last night and have enjoyed reading all the race recaps and discussion this morning.

I had a great time. Loved running into Mamasmurf on the way to the corrals! What are the odds? So glad you saw me, Kim. Very fun to connect with tinkeramy and saysay for the Oz meetup later in the afternoon.

I started at the front of corral B and did not have any problems with crowding/congestion. You had to pay attention when the course narrowed, but it was workable. I did some weaving - ended up running 13.4 miles. At the Disneyland 1/2 I started in corral E and it was much more difficult to run the first 3 miles due to crowding.

The humidity was very difficult for me. I don't think I've run in humid conditions since P.E. class in high school in Atlanta. I felt like I was having to work harder both physically and mentally to keep my pace. I did an approximate run 4, walk 1 interval... lengthening the running intervals once I was past 6 miles. No character breaks. Finished in 2:17:57. Was hoping to break 2:15 but when I finished I truly felt I had given it my all, so I'm pleased with my time.

One nice thing about starting in an earlier corral.... no lines for the buses. I was back in my room at the Beach Club (with 3 stops on the way) by 8:30 a.m.

A huge congratulations to those of you who were running this as your first half marathon. Even if you did not finish, it is a significant accomplishment that you got out there and trained and started the race. I found it inspiring to see and talk to so many women who took on this challenge as a way to improve their health. Crowding concerns aside, I think Disney deserves a lot of credit for offering a race that is friendly to such a wide range of experience and abilities.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:53 AM   #3748
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Okay, I'm caught up and ready to add my thoughts!

First, CONGRATULATIONS to all who finished, started and trained for this race, whether you did your best, worst or made the decision not to race at all, you did much more than most of the folks out there and I think we all deserve to celebrate!

Second, I did a lousy job of finding any DIS folks due to lack of time and too much running around. SO glad I stumbled into Julie, Patty and Amy and that Gryhndmom found me at RR - it was great to finally meet you all!

Third, I'll post a link when I get my full recap blogged, but I can't stop from posting some thoughts now, lol!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkeramy View Post
Oh, and I was Peasant Belle and ran the whole way with a basket and a baguette in it (got it in France on Saturday!). I got lots of crazy eye toward the end of the race and whispers of, "ooooh - she has bread!" I totally thought my baguette was gonna get jacked!
Dude. I thought it was plastic bread. Had I known it was real, that loaf wouldn't have made it across the Start line.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At the risk of coming off as gloating, I had a stunningly good race! Official time was 3:23:xx; iSmoothRun had me at 3:07:xx with autpopause on for pic and potty stops. No ITBS issues AT ALL!!! Which makes me think I could have walked less and run more, but I'm still very happy with my conservative approach.

About crowding and corrals, etc...

I was put in C with no proof of time submitted. I understand that's a sore spot for some, but it is what it is. I considered dropping back, but ultimately put my trust in what I believe is the Magic 8-Ball runDisney used to make coral placement decisions and stayed in C, but started in the very, very back of it. It was the right call: I had ample time to get in a warm-up walk before testing some run intervals and had no issues with crowdedness for a bit.

From there, dumb luck was with me - I wanted to walk quite a bit of the first half, and the wall of folks ahead of me were walking quite a bit of the first half. They didn't always walk when I wanted to, and I couldn't always run when I wanted to, but I remembered Coach telling me a while back to limit the zig-zagging and just adjust my pace to whoever was blocking my path until I got an opening within a step or two of where I was... it worked beautifully: my GPS showed a total distance of 13.15! Aiding that was the fact that I'm local and drive those main roads a lot: I knew when curves were coming and slowly made my way to the insides to run the tangents.

Before going from a run to a walk, I looked behind me, signaled, then s l o w l y transitioned. I've worked on that to save my joints the jarring of abrupt changes of stride, but I think, now, that's key to preventing accidents, too. I never felt like I was in danger of being run into. I noticed on the wider road sections that there were a lot of runners on either side and a lot of walkers toward the middle, so if you saw me walking in the middle a few times, that was why. Rather than an "always stay to the right" approach, perhaps we could employ a "look around you and see what the crowd's doing before slowing to a walk" approach. Worked for me.

I also think the fact that I don't particularly like a lot of visual and audio stimulation worked for me. I tuned out an awful lot of the entertainment and was very, very tuned in to the course itself, which I'm sure helped me see openings and watch where I was within the crowd. No way could I have done that well and have been on top of picture opps, so yeah, I agree that it was monstrously crowded, even though it worked out for me. (There were mile marker signs?!?!?!)

I think the neatest part of the race for me was the second half, when I totally went into myself and truly raced. By mile 8, I just knew my leg would hold up and I pushed harder than I ever have in training. The weather was perfect for me and it felt ridiculously good to fly past people through those last few miles! I ran almost all of 13 and sprinted the last 1/4 mile... turned in negative splits, 13 was my fastest mile split ever, and I finished with just enough gas in the tank to shuffle into RR and sit down to a plate of food and a chocolate milk. I ran it exactly as I'd wanted to, and I'm really, really happy with that.
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Last edited by PrincessV; 02-27-2013 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:34 AM   #3749
AmyAnne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeerIsleDisney View Post
A huge congratulations to those of you who were running this as your first half marathon. Even if you did not finish, it is a significant accomplishment that you got out there and trained and started the race. I found it inspiring to see and talk to so many women who took on this challenge as a way to improve their health. Crowding concerns aside, I think Disney deserves a lot of credit for offering a race that is friendly to such a wide range of experience and abilities.
I agree with this. And while I understand those who are frustrated with not being able to run their best because of the crowds, I think it is unrealistic to expect things to change much. Disney races are not like other races. I do hope that Disney can improve things, but for those who will be upset if they cannot run their best race, I would think that staying away from these races might be the best decision, unless you can qualify for the A corral. I trained at a 12 min pace but did not expect to get anywhere close to that on the course, because I was starting in C. I still loved the whole experience.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:48 AM   #3750
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I don't know. I don't think it would be unrealistic to have them make improvements? spacing corrals, widen the course where they can... cap off the amount of runners. Its all in the name of safety as well. I read on the facebook page that someone got hit by a car because they hopped over the cones to get out of the crowds.

and if its not really a race in which you want to get a good PR based on your training..why call it a 1/2 marathon. at that point its just a 13.1 walk with entertainment and pictures with characters... Sorry I still think Disney could do better.

It reminds me of the MNSSHP..the first couple of years were fantastic..great party/parade..then the crowds just made it not fun..too many people. It shouldn't just be all about maximizing profits.
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