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Old 11-16-2012, 01:59 PM   #106
Princess Dolly
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Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post
Union played Chicken...Union lost!
I don't think it's quite that simple. I think it gave the hedge funds an excuse to liquidate the company without looking like the bad guys. The end game was always liquidation.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:00 PM   #107
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So an employee with a high school education chooses to work as an independent contractor?
One of my good friends will only work as an independent I.T contractor. He's not only turned down some very good job offers because they could never pay as much as he pulls in managing the infrastructure for a lot of companies but he resigned as CIO of a multinational company to become a contractor. In my field of work this isn't exactly uncommon either.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:01 PM   #108
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Who said anyone is watching? There are plenty of business owners that do take pride in how they run their company and treat their employees. Why is it "crying a river" because people find companies that treat employees like dirt despicable? Are you okay with that?
Again, if someone feels the company they work for treats them like dirt, they are free to leave that company, are they not?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:02 PM   #109
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And again since it keeps coming up, the executives are not the business owners of publicly traded companies unless they are personally the majority share holder. Many have some stock so they are part owners just as many of us are if we have their stock or a 401K containing it.
True this. However, one hears cases all the time of the good ol' boy system where one is CEO of company X and sits on the board of directors for companies Y, Z, A, B, and C. And this handful of small shareholders votes raises for each other in a you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours kind of way. The shareholders who own 90% of the company are millions of "little people" who have little to no power to really control what goes on at the top as each of them own but a tiny fraction of a percent of the company. I have to admit, that kind of sticks in my craw a little, particularly as it pertains to large raises for CEOs of failing companies.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:02 PM   #110
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Yes I think its okay for a CEO to pull in millions while some workers in that same company make minimum wage, or while some are just temps or ICs. Its not greed, it is life in the corporate world.
http://seattletimes.com/html/soundec...d_hostess.html

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In the latest Chapter 11, the company was saddled with nearly $1 billion in debt. In addition, it was reported that while operating under Chapter 11, top executives gave themselves 80-percent raises in 2011. To be fair, a new chief executive came in last spring and cut the salaries of the four top execs to $1 (to be restored in January). Symbolism is better than nothing. A big complaint is "legacy" pensions, some $2 billion worth. The unanswered question is why were these unfunded during the good years? Executive compensation is never unfunded. When chief executives fail, their lavish golden parachutes are never unfunded.
Im not sure how accurate this is, seems like the only article that states this fact... but if thats true, 80% isnt much...
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:03 PM   #111
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You seem so fixated on the Corporate Greed angle. I suspect you want to regulate salaries and earnings. I do wonder whether you own or have ever owned a business as perhaps you would have some perspective before rushing to the Corporate Greed excuse.

The end result here is that the company was failing on every level and for multiple reasons was unable to compete. Existing or new companies will fill the void.
No way, do I want regulated salaries. Yes, I have worked in small businesses and corporations before and currently run a small business with my sister…while I'm back in school. Anyway...even you have to admit that as good as deregulation and trickle down economics sound, it hasn't worked because people have gotten greedy. I'm not sure what the full answer is but I think we can start by not giving subsidies and tax breaks to corporations and tightening up some of the laws that allow them to carry out an illegal endeavor by exploiting a loophole.

I'm a believer in the free market when it comes to business, but I honestly do not believe every corporation plays by free market rules.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:05 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by FireDancer View Post
One of my good friends will only work as an independent I.T contractor. He's not only turned down some very good job offers because they could never pay as much as he pulls in managing the infrastructure for a lot of companies but he resigned as CIO of a multinational company to become a contractor. In my field of work this isn't exactly uncommon either.
You're talking consulting type work. I'm talking laborers. If someone shows up the machine shop every day to work the same hours doing the same job, should he be an independent contractor?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:05 PM   #113
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Anyone else notice the humor in us debating about large corporate companies that are out to make money and the lower level workers who are paid very little all while on a message board dedicated to people who absolutely love Walt Disney World?
I was thinking the exact same thing!
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:08 PM   #114
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Anyone else notice the humor in us debating about large corporate companies that are out to make money and the lower level workers who are paid very little all while on a message board dedicated to people who absolutely love Walt Disney World?
LOL. But does Disney treat their employees badly? Is it a poorly performing company? So who cares.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:11 PM   #115
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You're talking consulting type work. I'm talking laborers. If someone shows up the machine shop every day to work the same hours doing the same job, should he be an independent contractor?
He does both consulting and physical work depending on the company. Some he manages the I.T. infrastructure himself and the company has no internal staff, some he manages the people who work internally, some he consults with about specific projects. I'm not sure why it matters what kind of work the person does. Consulting, blue collar labor, white collar labor, it is all still work.

If he didn't want to continue doing it he could go get a standard job tomorrow, it is his choice.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:15 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by FireDancer View Post
He does both consulting and physical work depending on the company. Some he manages the I.T. infrastructure himself and the company has no internal staff, some he manages the people who work internally, some he consults with about specific projects. I'm not sure why it matters what kind of work the person does. Consulting, blue collar labor, white collar labor, it is all still work.

If he didn't want to continue doing it he could go get a standard job tomorrow, it is his choice.
The point of being in IC is that you sustain yourself based on your services. My guess is your friend can do work for other companies while he does this. Someone making minimum wage who is REQUIRED to be at work for a certain amount of time shouldn't considered an IC.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:27 PM   #117
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You seem so fixated on the Corporate Greed angle. I suspect you want to regulate salaries and earnings. I do wonder whether you own or have ever owned a business as perhaps you would have some perspective before rushing to the Corporate Greed excuse.

The end result here is that the company was failing on every level and for multiple reasons was unable to compete. Existing or new companies will fill the void.


We'll probably be importing Twinkies from abroard in the near future.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #118
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The point of being in IC is that you sustain yourself based on your services. My guess is your friend can do work for other companies while he does this. Someone making minimum wage who is REQUIRED to be at work for a certain amount of time shouldn't considered an IC.
He can work for as many companies as he wants as long as he lives up to the terms of the contract he signed. No one has to sign a contract that doesn't offer favorable terms to them.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:29 PM   #119
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We'll probably be importing Twinkies from abroard in the near future.
China.

And Diana Sawyer will go there to investigate.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #120
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So an employee with a high school education chooses to work as an independent contractor? I don't think so. My state just kept Linda McMahon from becoming a senator and one of the biggest gripes was that her wrestlers in the WWE were paid as independent contractors even though it's a physically taxing job.

As for the companies that did leave, they probably had no intention of staying. They were just trying to put the onus on someone else and some people still fall for that.
For you, the glass is always half empty.
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