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Old 11-17-2012, 12:01 AM   #166
MolonLabe
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Originally Posted by jen0610 View Post
While you don't like to see people lose their jobs, sometimes they have no one but themselves to blame for that. As a company, Hostess was in trouble. The union workers knew that, but instead of working with Hostess to try and work out a deal that would help keep Hostess open and keep people in jobs, they didn't so now there are no jobs, instead of a number of jobs at a lesser wage.

I just don't get why people have a hard time understanding,
a little of something is a whole lot better than nothing.
Me either. If you don't like your job, quit and get another one. How hard is that?

Hostess may well have went under anyway next year but 1,500 idiots cost the other 17,000~ at least 8 weeks of pay.

I've got zero sympathy for the 1,500 union workers in this case.

I feel awful for the other 17,000 though.

Living the midwest, unions are huge here. It seems like every week, one of them is in front of some store, strip mall or construction site with a big inflatable rat. I feel like rolling down my window and yelling at them "Get back to work you lazy so-and-so's!"

It's absurd, in the worst economy since the great depression, so many idiots have the nerve to go on strike.

Hey buddy, if you are that good at your job, you should have no problem finding a better one... right?
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:19 AM   #167
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It is easy to blame the unions here, but it is pretty obvious with just a TINY bit of research that the company has been planning to liquidate for well over a year. They used the strike as an excuse. And while knowing the company was going under and that they hoped to sell the brand (which really is what they are hoping to do) they made sure all the muckety-mucks got their cash bonuses and raises on the way out the door. This company has been a sinking ship since 2005, and all the workers that took the cuts then should have had an eye on the horizon for the end of this company. I worked for a company like this before and when the red flags started coming, I went back to school and jumped ship. You need to look ahead. So some of these workers are to blame for not seeing what was coming. The strike, eh, just an excuse. They were getting fed a crap sandwich, so I don't blame them for saying no thanks. It is pretty short sided to blame one side or the other. Both are to blame. But there is no doubt that this company, whether the bakers skipped the strike or not, was circling the drain as it HAS been for many years.


Here is one workers actual cost of concessions since 2005 (http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news...tml?iid=Lead):

Mike Hummell, a receiving clerk and a member of the Bakers' union working in Lenexa, Kan., said he was making about $48,000 in 2005 before the company's first trip through bankruptcy. Concessions during that reorganization cut his pay to $34,000 last year, earning $16.12 an hour. He said the latest contract demands would have cut his pay to about $25,000, with significantly higher out-of-pocket expenses for insurance.


How many people can afford to go from making 48k to 25K? Not many. If the CEOS and Management was also taking these types of concessions and pay cuts, then maybe. But they were not.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:21 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by MolonLabe View Post
Me either. If you don't like your job, quit and get another one. How hard is that?

Hostess may well have went under anyway next year but 1,500 idiots cost the other 17,000~ at least 8 weeks of pay.

I've got zero sympathy for the 1,500 union workers in this case.

I feel awful for the other 17,000 though.

Living the midwest, unions are huge here. It seems like every week, one of them is in front of some store, strip mall or construction site with a big inflatable rat. I feel like rolling down my window and yelling at them "Get back to work you lazy so-and-so's!"

It's absurd, in the worst economy since the great depression, so many idiots have the nerve to go on strike.

Hey buddy, if you are that good at your job, you should have no problem finding a better one... right?
I am not sure it is strictly a union issue.

I remember growing up and everybody had a hoho , yo ho . yo yo , ding dong, or twinkie in their lunch.

As a mom, I think we had twinkies once in the house in 18 years. Lunch bags had an apple and carrot chips rather than twinkies .

Ha their sales as a whole stayed up all these years? I have no clue, but certainly I do not see the treats around.

Certainly excessive union demands in can be harmful or deadly to a company...but I do just have to wonder () if the company was on strong footing and holding its own.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:26 AM   #169
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And for the record I have not had a Twinkie for awhile now, but the last time I did they did not taste good anymore. They did something that made them less tasty and more dry. I remember thinking yuck. Its been several years though.


Guess we will need to fins somthing else to deep fry at county fairs next year. Oh wait, people are already deep frying BUTTER. Sticks of BUTTER. Eat your veggies, kids.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:34 AM   #170
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How many people can afford to go from making 48k to 25K? Not many. If the CEOS and Management was also taking these types of concessions and pay cuts, then maybe. But they were not.
It's pretty simple dak. Companies, for profit ones, are in business to make money, not provide people with hand outs or cut them in on higher profits for simply doing a job.

Low stress, menial task jobs get low stress menial pay. Want to make more money, make yourself more useful.

The questions are many.

Did the worker deserve 48,000 to begin with? Considering he took a 12,000 pay cut and stayed at the job for several years, as opposed to finding a higher paying job, I'd say that 36,000 a year was more in line with what he was worth.

Being cut from 36,000 to 25,000. Again, if he was worth more, why not go where he could earn what he was worth?

Unless, through any number of reasons (including artificially inflated union wages), this guy was sticking around because he wasn't even 25k.

I was in a similar situation almost 2 years ago. Cut backs and what not would have led to a nearly 50% pay cut. I left and struck out on my own.

I now make significantly more working for myself, as opposed to someone else. Guess what though? All those risks and worries I didn't have when someone else had that other stress and risk... it's all on me now.

It's much easier to show up, punch a clock and collect an hour wage, then it is to have the stress and burdens of managing and owning a company and what comes with it. Compensation is and should be in line with that.

It's about being grateful for what you have and not looking at someone else and being greedy or envious of them.

These workers should have been grateful to hostess for giving them jobs.

This is America, no one is forcing you to work for hostess (or anyone else). If you don't like your job and think you can do better, then do better.

Sticking around and complaining and striking? They have no one to blame but themselves.

Unions were obsolete when they replaced canaries with machines.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:36 AM   #171
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And for the record I have not had a Twinkie for awhile now, but the last time I did they did not taste good anymore. They did something that made them less tasty and more dry. I remember thinking yuck. Its been several years though.
I thought the same thing... I sort of figured I had grown up and since I eat as much organic, GMO free, HFCS free and grass fed / free range food as I can, I figured my body just didn't like poison anymore, lol.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:41 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by MolonLabe View Post
It's pretty simple dak. Companies, for profit ones, are in business to make money, not provide people with hand outs or cut them in on higher profits for simply doing a job.

Low stress, menial task jobs get low stress menial pay. Want to make more money, make yourself more useful.

The questions are many.

Did the worker deserve 48,000 to begin with? Considering he took a 12,000 pay cut and stayed at the job for several years, as opposed to finding a higher paying job, I'd say that 36,000 a year was more in line with what he was worth.

Being cut from 36,000 to 25,000. Again, if he was worth more, why not go where he could earn what he was worth?

Unless, through any number of reasons (including artificially inflated union wages), this guy was sticking around because he wasn't even 25k.

I was in a similar situation almost 2 years ago. Cut backs and what not would have led to a nearly 50% pay cut. I left and struck out on my own.

I now make significantly more working for myself, as opposed to someone else. Guess what though? All those risks and worries I didn't have when someone else had that other stress and risk... it's all on me now.

It's much easier to show up, punch a clock and collect an hour wage, then it is to have the stress and burdens of managing and owning a company and what comes with it. Compensation is and should be in line with that.

It's about being grateful for what you have and not looking at someone else and being greedy or envious of them.

These workers should have been grateful to hostess for giving them jobs.

This is America, no one is forcing you to work for hostess (or anyone else). If you don't like your job and think you can do better, then do better.

Sticking around and complaining and striking? They have no one to blame but themselves.

Unions were obsolete when they replaced canaries with machines.
So it is all the unions fault? No fault in the poorly run company and crappy finances? That is not biased at all. And how could you know what a worker in his job is worth? Do you know what his day to day operations are? What machines he operates? What skill he needs? You know Hostess agreed to those terms. SO they must have felt it was fair at some point. They have been hemorrhaging money for close to a decade. Oh and stealing. But it must be the unions fault entirely.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:42 AM   #173
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I thought the same thing... I sort of figured I had grown up and since I eat as much organic, GMO free, HFCS free and grass fed / free range food as I can, I figured my body just didn't like poison anymore, lol.
I think they changed the recipe or something some years back it was noticeable. Just wait til the brand gets bought and the twinkies get made in Mexico or something. Wonder what they will taste like then.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:53 AM   #174
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And how could you know what a worker in his job is worth? Do you know what his day to day operations are? What machines he operates? What skill he needs?
Pretty easily to figure out. If he was worth 48,000 and got dropped to 35,000 he could have went else where and got paid what he was worth.

He stuck around for several years, no one who was capable of making 25%~ more money would stick around for that long if they were worth more.

Quote:
You know Hostess agreed to those terms. SO they must have felt it was fair at some point.
Either that or they union threatened to strike and hostess caved and capitulated.

All we know for sure is, because of the actions of 1,500 union workers, 17,000 people are now unemployed when they should have had jobs for at least another 8 weeks and possibly many more months and years to come.

Because of them, we won't know if hostess could have emerged from this latest problem.

Doesn't effect me*, I don't own stock in them and personally, I feel their 'food', if you can call it that, contributes to all sorts of diseases and chronic conditions.

Then again, just like if someone wants to work a low paying job, I think people should be allowed to eat whatever they want. Even if I think it's 'poison'.



*beyond the fact as a taxpayer, now I'll have to pick up the tab for many fo these people going on unemployment and social welfare programs.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:55 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by MolonLabe View Post
Pretty easily to figure out. If he was worth 48,000 and got dropped to 35,000 he could have went else where and got paid what he was worth.

He stuck around for several years, no one who was capable of making 25%~ more money would stick around for that long if they were worth more.



Either that or they union threatened to strike and hostess caved and capitulated.

All we know for sure is, because of the actions of 1,500 union workers, 17,000 people are now unemployed when they should have had jobs for at least another 8 weeks and possibly many more months and years to come.

Because of them, we won't know if hostess could have emerged from this latest problem.

Doesn't effect me, I don't own stock in them and personally, I feel there 'food', if you can call it that, contributes to all sorts of diseases and chronic conditions.

Then again, just like if someone wants to work a low paying job, I think people should be allowed to eat whatever they want. Even if I think it's 'poison'.


Actually, we do know. It was going to be liquidated. All the steps had already been put in place. They were just waiting for the moment to do it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:16 AM   #176
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And when hostess starts a new company, with a new name, and hires workers at half the pay with no benefits, I will never buy a product from them.
It would be different if CEO's all made wage and benefit cuts too.
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But plenty of people will! I know I will just to spite those who won't!
Enjoy your twinkies, wherever, and whatever they are made with!

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Sure you will.
You think there is not other bakers I can buy from?



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Actually, we do know. It was going to be liquidated. All the steps had already been put in place. They were just waiting for the moment to do it.
I agree!
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:18 AM   #177
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I imagine that there is enough blame to go around to Management and the Union and who knows who else. It's still sad that they are going under no matter what happens after this.

I always did like Chocolate Zingers. I haven't had one in years.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:22 AM   #178
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I imagine that there is enough blame to go around to Management and the Union and who knows who else. It's still sad that they are going under no matter what happens after this.

I always did like Chocolate Zingers. I haven't had one in years.
What is a chocolate zinger?
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:52 AM   #179
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This thread got me curious so I did some digging. I don't know how accurate this is, as it is late and I am a little tired so haven't googled other results.

Apparently, earlier this year the CEO of Hostess was awarded with a 300 percent raise and other executives were awarded massive pay raises (at least, nine others that I saw).

It seems absurd to me that is you can't afford to pay the pensions you promised to your employees and your company is going belly up, you think you deserve a 300 percent pay raise. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Because, you know, you are doing such a great job!

Until, CEO's and big executives take some major pay cuts (and also take some personal responsibility when their companies profits take a nose dive), I don't see why their employees (who make significantly less) should have to take a pay cut or deduction in benefits, either. I know everyone says they should get paid more because they have more responsibility, I think that is bull. I have never seen a CEO take personal responsibility for any failed business. You know what they do? Take their golden parachutes, blame the unions (or the government, or the banks, or anyone else they can point the finger at) and move onto their yacht or vacation home.

I will never understand this hatred of unions in this nation. While they are not all perfect, you can thank them for your 40 hour work weeks, overtime pay and child labor laws. Sorry, they are not the root of all evil, as far as I am concerned.

Edited to add: I went back and saw on an earlier post that someone had already brought this up. I missed it in one of the pages.

Last edited by nathalee81; 11-17-2012 at 03:07 AM. Reason: Saw earlier post with same info
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:12 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by nathalee81 View Post
This thread got me curious so I did some digging. I don't know how accurate this is, as it is late and I am a little tired so haven't googled other results.

Apparently, earlier this year the CEO of Hostess was awarded with a 300 percent raise and other executives were awarded massive pay raises (at least, nine others that I saw).

It seems absurd to me that is you can't afford to pay the pensions you promised to your employees and your company is going belly up, you think you deserve a 300 percent pay raise. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Because, you know, you are doing such a great job!

Until, CEO's and big executives take some major pay cuts (and also take some personal responsibility when their companies profits take a nose dive), I don't see why their employees (who make significantly less) should have to take a pay cut or deduction in benefits, either. I know everyone says they should get paid more because they have more responsibility, I think that is bull. I have never seen a CEO take personal responsibility for any failed business. You know what they do? Take their golden parachutes, blame the unions (or the government, or the banks, or anyone else they can point the finger at) and move onto their yacht or vacation home.

I will never understand this hatred of unions in this nation. While they are not all perfect, you can thank them for your 40 hour work weeks, overtime pay and child labor laws. Sorry, they are not the root of all evil, as far as I am concerned.

Edited to add: I went back and saw on an earlier post that someone had already brought this up. I missed it in one of the pages.
Toe be fair though, the top 4 executives have been paid $1 since March 2012. sucks to work 8 month for $1...
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