DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Vacation Club > DVC Member Services
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-19-2012, 04:37 PM   #16
disneynutz


Earning My Ears One At A Time
 
disneynutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North Texas
Posts: 17,641

There are all types of owners and all types of renters. As renting has increased with more owners and several brokers renting reservations, there are bound to be more problems.

Renting isn't regulated and there are no rules. I have had very demanding renters who were only staying for 2 nights and I have had renters who I never hear a peep out of staying 2 weeks. I had one very nice lady who sent me over 70 emails asking questions and sharing her excitement about her pending WDW vacation.

I would just move on and next time discuss all of the terms with the owner prior to renting and signing the contract.

Bill
__________________

disneynutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #17
RevKjb
Mouseketeer
 
RevKjb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 120

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalee94 View Post
you changed the deal (and this is VERY "short notice" in timeshare terms). within 30 days of arrival would have been TOO LATE if you stiffed her on the rest of the payment (as DVC penalized cancellations at that point.) you made a seriously wrongheaded assumption here.

i don't think you should feel wronged at all. you were in the wrong. sounds like she bent over backwards to make things work and you didn't hold up your end...you kept renegotiating which would have put her in a bad spot.

i agree that she should have had a standard contract to explain things ahead of time. most renters would never have wasted any time with someone who wanted to do a waitlist.

if you are renting pts, you need to understand that you are doing so on the renter's terms. a hotel might be willing to wait for payment but a DVC owner might lose their ability to use their pts at all if they wait past a certain point (30 days is much too late but other penalties may apply depending on their specific contract).

you are welcome to pay disney prices to get disney's payment terms. but honestly, i wouldn't deal with someone who acted as you did either.
As a DVC owner, I agree. OP you were out of line and I would have done the same.
__________________
<>< <>< <><
KJB DVC SSR since Jan 2011 ADD on VB Sept 11
Stoney Creek, ON
Canada





RevKjb is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 10-19-2012, 05:55 PM   #18
staceymay00
DIS Veteran
 
staceymay00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 595

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225

After about 6 weeks, we finally got the rest of the days secured. She sent an email contract that asked for all of the money now. I sent half and asked-- in a way that I thought was polite-- whether she would take half ow what was due now and half within 30 days of arrival.
Maybe she was about to hit her banking deadline and your sending only half the payment after she requested full payment made her uncomfortable. I know most rental situations work out great for both parties, but personally I don't see myself ever renting points because of the risk, however small it may be. The risk to the person renting points exists until the party renting checks out with no damage and pays all charges billed to the room with cash or a valid credit card. I'm curious as to why you did not ask the question about paying half until after you sent less payment than was requested.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards
staceymay00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 07:04 PM   #19
st225
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 23

More replies

Thanks again for everyone's perspective. It's invaluable. I only wish the other side of my deal had been so articulate.

Some answers:

* Why did I wait until after sending less than the full amount? Because I thought it was better to send something as a gesture of good faith. I thought something was better than nothing. And again, I didn't say I wouldn't pay, I just pointed out that many other sample contracts had payment schedules and then asked whether she would consider that.

* The coldness of some of the members worries me and suggests that I shouldn't try renting again in the future. While I think it's okay to be abrupt with people at the beginning of a transaction, I think it's wrong to cut off someone after much of the deal is complete.

* Several owners pointed out that renters should remember the owner is an individual, not a big corporation. The central reservation office is available for them if they don't like dealing with an individual. That's certainly true. I hope that the owners remember that the renters are also individuals.

Thanks again.
st225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 07:23 PM   #20
BestDadEver
New DVC Member
 
BestDadEver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Island
Posts: 651

You would have to understand the risk she is taking that you dont back out .

With that said I would have gave you a no, and let you stand by the original agreement.

But can understand her doing that if she got burned before. Or even not willing to get burned .

You not wanting to paythe original way agreed would their a red flag that you may not pay in full .
__________________
Member since 2012


BestDadEver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 07:38 PM   #21
maburke
DIS Veteran
 
maburke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,212

I agree with a PP that the fundamental problem here was a lack of clear communication. I agree that the owner was being very accommodating to work with a waitlist, but why did the renter not know the terms of payment until after the reservation was partly made, partly paid, and waitlist came through? I (in either role) would have wanted to agree on the contract FIRST, then start the process of securing the reservation. These contracts might be difficult to enforce, but at least it's harder to have a miscommunication of the terms when it's all spelled out. Any renegotiation of the terms then would have happened before the owner put in much effort or risk, and they could have a agreed or not done business then.

By the way, OP, to answer some of your original questions, you are allowed to feel anything you want. But unfortunately, if you don't have an agreement at that point, the owner is allowed to take the action that they did. Not something I'd do, though; I agree with BestDadEver & I would have allowed the deal to continue on the original (verbal, at least?) terms. And I would never feel insulted that someone doesn't trust me -- the trust in this process needs to be earned.
__________________
Meghan & DH & ds 17 ds 14 (both with autism) dd 10



1972: Contemporary; 1991: Radisson; 1994: OKW; 2001: BC & Disney Wonder; 2002: BWI; 2003: BCV; 2004: OKW; 2005: BWV; 2006: HHI, GCH@DL; 2007: BWV, GCH@DL; 2008: BCV; 2009: AKV-Kidani/VB & THV; 2010: BLT/BCV; 2011: VGC; 2012:OKW; 2013: VGC; 2014: DLP

Last edited by maburke; 10-19-2012 at 07:50 PM.
maburke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:00 PM   #22
DisneyNutMary
DIS Veteran
 
DisneyNutMary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 1,557

I am going against opinion here and sympathizing with the OP.
The owner may have, and probably did panic about getting stiffed out of final payment. However, as a responsible renter, she should have laid out her terms of rental before going into the reservation process. The deal got as far as a down payment without a contract in place, I would never open myself up to that- the contract protects both the owner and the client.
To rent without a broker seems appealing because you can get a better profit off your points, but with the extra profit comes a need to handle transactions professionally and with good business practices- always spell out your terms before exchanging information and accepting down payment.

This is exactly the reason I use a broker to rent out my points. He handles the terms, the contracts and looks out for my interests
__________________
~Mary
DisneyNutMary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:45 PM   #23
Dean
DIS Veteran
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 31,141

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
First, thanks to everyone who is posting their answers here.

Now on to some of the details. There were no contract terms spelled out up front. She just kept putting that off until we understood what days would actually be available.

If I demanded a change, I can see her backing out, but I never demanded anything. I merely asked if we could hold off on the last part of the payment.

If it were me, I would respond by first trying to explain how the DVC cancellation policy puts the point owner in a bind. Most renters will never understand the complexities of the system.

Then I would make clear that if I didn't receive the full payment by a certain time, I would cancel the reservation. At least give the person a chance to understand they made a misstep.

My feeling is that by cashing my check and accepting the partial payment, she was no longer entitled to act as if the reservation was all hers to do with as she pleased.

The owners renting out their points should try to remember this power imbalance. If the owner can always cancel a reservation up to the last minute, it takes much more trust on the side of the renter who puts up all of the money up front. Once the owner gets the money, they're not extending trust.
A partial payment does not obligate the owner. None of us are privy to the actual details so it's hard to say but I can see the owner reacting this way as the request was unreasonable IMO. Likely better would have been a contact to explain and request full payment or a cancelation and if they were up against any deadline, they could have explained that. Personally I would have spelled out terms but would not have wait listed without a formal agreement and some type of payment.
__________________
Dean
Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 10:04 PM   #24
tjkraz

DVC Owner SSR
 
tjkraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 13,087

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
She sent an email contract that asked for all of the money now. I sent half and asked-- in a way that I thought was polite-- whether she would take half ow what was due now and half within 30 days of arrival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
I didn't say I wouldn't pay, I just pointed out that many other sample contracts had payment schedules and then asked whether she would consider that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
The owners renting out their points should try to remember this power imbalance. If the owner can always cancel a reservation up to the last minute, it takes much more trust on the side of the renter who puts up all of the money up front. Once the owner gets the money, they're not extending trust.
Here's my takeaway from the passages above: You insulted her. Perhaps deeply.

From her POV, she worked with you to make the special arrangements, use the waitlist, set aside the points for you rather than looking for another buyer. Then when it came time to collect payment for her efforts, the response she got was partial payment and a letter explaining why you didn't believe her terms were fair.

You questioned her integrity. She had no intention of defrauding you (as evidenced by the fact that she sent your money back), and yet your message was "I don't really trust you so I'm not comfortable paying everything at once."

Don't know that I would have responded in such an abrupt manner but then I wasn't the one who bent over backward to secure the desired accommodations. And I'm not privy to all of the back-and-forth communications.

In a very short time you went from "I'm deathly afraid she will steal my money" to "I can't believe she won't take my money." I'm sympathetic over the lost trip but I think you sort of dug your own grave here. It could have been avoided...should have been avoided. Live and learn.
__________________
-- Tim

DVC owner at SSR, BWV and VGC
tjkraz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 03:04 PM   #25
Deb & Bill
DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
 
Deb & Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 44,489

If you want payment terms like you get with Disney, you need to book directly with Disney. Disney will cancel your reservation, too, if you don't make your payment in time.

I agree with Tim about how you insulted the member. She worked very hard to get the missing nights you wanted - six weeks she worked to get those - and you don't pay in full. You want to set your own payment terms and you turn needy. She's not a travel agent. Maybe she had plans for the money you owed her. Now her plans go up in smoke because you want to change the game.

At that point, I would have blown you off, too.

Quote:
* The coldness of some of the members worries me and suggests that I shouldn't try renting again in the future. While I think it's okay to be abrupt with people at the beginning of a transaction, I think it's wrong to cut off someone after much of the deal is complete.
If you think this member and the others responding to this thread are cold, then you need to skip point rentals. Your deal was far from complete. You stiffed her. While you look at these members as cold, we look at you as someone who just doesn't get it. You need to do your homework before you attempt this again.
__________________
Deb - DVC Member since '97
OKW and VWL Homes

Stop the madness. No more DVC construction.
Bring back Vacation Magic. Dump Disney Files!
Stopped drinking the Kool-aid long ago.
Deb & Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 05:44 PM   #26
ScottOKW2K
Wishing I was working for a REAL Mickey Mouse operation !
 
ScottOKW2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,341

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
About two months ago, I started working with a nice woman on securing a five nights around MLK day in January. Some of the days were easy to find, but some weren't. She put us on the waiting list and I paid for the first days with a check.

After about 6 weeks, we finally got the rest of the days secured. She sent an email contract that asked for all of the money now. I sent half and asked-- in a way that I thought was polite-- whether she would take half ow what was due now and half within 30 days of arrival.
If I was the renter I might have done the same. The renter obviously went to a lot of effort to secure the reservation you desired. She provided you a reservation over a holiday weekend and started trying to acquire the room at 5 months out - not an easy task. She works for six weeks to get your desired reservation and then when she asks for payment - you balk at the payment she requested. As a renter this would probably have given me a bad "vibe" - and my gut feeling would have to be cut my losses on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
Whoom. She sent back all of the money and cancelled the reservation. She didn't bother to counter with a request for all of the money now. She just sent a note saying that she felt insulted that I wasn't trusting her. She had never scammed anyone.

This wouldn't be a problem if everything unfolded within a few days, but now it's impossible for me to get the same reservation. The resorts my kids wanted are all booked.

I feel like once she cashed my first check, the reservation was, in part, mine.
I doesn't matter what you feel. As others have stated the reservation is always the members, and ultimately the owner is still responsible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
She didn't have the right to cancel it without at least checking with me or giving me some kind of warning or trying to negotiate. She knew it was the first time I was renting DVC points and yet she acted as if she could trash the reservation without consulting me.
Here are my questions for the group:

* Am I allowed to feel wronged, in some small way?

Sure, go ahead. It won't change the situation. The renter was providing a hard to get reservation at a significant cost savings to you. When she provided her payment terms, you balked.

* While the system gives the renters complete power over the reservation, are they obliged to contact the customer before changing the reservation?

Both you and the renter should have communicated better and earlier in this process. Yes, we have complete power over the reservation, but we have complete responsibility too.

* Does acceptance of a partial payment make a difference? Does it show my good will? Does it make it worse for her to change the reservation?

No, not really. Renting DVC points is all a matter of trust. You didn't trust her.

* Is there some standard contract or ethical boilerplate tool that should make this clearer for everyone from the beginning?

Check the rental board.
ScottOKW2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 05:57 PM   #27
bobbiwoz
I'm happy to dance with you
I have 2 opinions
We had tried usual things to keep them away, including something like coyote urine, it is sold in hardware stores by us
 
bobbiwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington Township OH and Cape May NJ
Posts: 57,918

OPI would feel stunned if it happened to me. You asked a question and lost your reservation. Most people here agree with the member, I don't.

Best wishes.

Bobbi
__________________
bobbiwoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #28
DebbieB
DVC Member BWV 99
You have to compare apples to apples
 
DebbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: PA
Posts: 46,282

Asking for a payment schedule might be reasonable but asking to pay the balance at 30 days is not. At 30 days, if you don't pay, the member is stuck with points in holding status. I was with you when you said you just asked a question but when you started talking about sample contracts having payment schedules, you lost me. It went from asking a simple question to trying to negotiate better terms.
__________________
DebbieB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 06:26 PM   #29
lilpooh108
DIS Veteran
 
lilpooh108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Depends on the moment
Posts: 4,245

Quote:
Originally Posted by DebbieB View Post
Asking for a payment schedule might be reasonable but asking to pay the balance at 30 days is not. At 30 days, if you don't pay, the member is stuck with points in holding status. I was with you when you said you just asked a question but when you started talking about sample contracts having payment schedules, you lost me. It went from asking a simple question to trying to negotiate better terms.
I agree with this. If you had emailed her and agreed on the schedule ahead of time, then this would be a different situation.

I think sending half the payment after she secured the entire reservation and offering to pay when she was heading into the penalty phase is unfair.

It's sad that you lost your reservation, but even David's rental service has more stringent requirements than what you were proposing.
lilpooh108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 07:12 PM   #30
ScottOKW2K
Wishing I was working for a REAL Mickey Mouse operation !
 
ScottOKW2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,341

Quote:
Originally Posted by st225 View Post
This wouldn't be a problem if everything unfolded within a few days, but now it's impossible for me to get the same reservation. The resorts my kids wanted are all booked.
Here are some ideas to handle the situation now. Find other resorts that would be acceptable to you and your family and book it if their is availability. You will then have something in place. I would then continue looking for availability at the resort(s) that you desire. If you are booking through Disney people that cancel or modify their reservations have to do so no less than 45 days out from check-in for package reservations and no less than 5 days out for room only reservations. Because of this resorts that show no availability now may have some later.

This can happen on the DVC side too. Your choices may be limited and it may not be the resort you want. I went through this recently - I needed to make a reservation during Food & Wine with less than 2 weeks notice. My wife and I returned last night from a wonderful 5 night stay - one night in a BLT studio and 4 nights in a SSR 1 bedroom.

I wish you luck .
ScottOKW2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
contracts, ethics, reservations.



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

DVC-Resales.com | 1-800-550-6493 (Contact The Timeshare Store) | DVC Resale Listings

facebooktwittergoogle plus youtube itunesDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.