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Old 10-17-2012, 08:53 AM   #61
Colleen27
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Originally Posted by Poohforyou View Post
My dd is in 8th grade and we've been talking about this for quite some time. I did some really stupid things in HS but that doesn't mean I'll turn the other way if my child starts doing this same thing.

I can't say I'm surprised by some of the lackadaisical attitudes on this thread but I am saddened by it. As parents I feel we should be disappointed by the choices some teens make and lay down the law that it will not be tolerated.
Not everyone chooses the same hill to die on. I'll be honest - I don't think teens experimenting with alcohol is a big deal so long as they aren't getting behind the wheel afterwards. I think the way our society addresses alcohol is misguided at best, and the lessons I pass on to my kids are far more "think about the possible consequences" than "just say no".

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Originally Posted by NHdisneylover View Post
I certainly do not think it would "never" happen--but I DO think it would happen less.

Think about it--f someone cheats on a test and they get away with it, they are more likely to do it again and again and eventually start to think of it as a "normal" thing. They get to the point that they feel like they know what they are doing and how to do it and they won't get caught and nothing bad will happen to them.

I have seen that very thing happen with drinking and driving too. Someone was worried about it and dd it anyway but driving super slowly, etc. That went okay so the next time they worried a little less and drove a little less slowly. By the tenth time that person is hopping in the car convinced they can "handle it" and driving at normal speeds.

All I am saying is that I DO feel that the overall number of people willing to drive while impaired would go down if the incentive to "sneak" home by driving after illegally drinking were taken away by having rules similar to some other countries in which the drinking is legal for a couple of years before the driving is. It keeps someone from taking those first few drives when they are still worried about it (even if they are not rule follower type kids--if your teen and nearly all of their friends are not legally able to drive then you probably wll have some system n place to get them home from whatever get together--alcohol or not, right?)
I agree. Those "buzzed driving" commercials have it right... by the time they're old enough to drink legally, many people have enough experience driving after a few drinks to think of themselves as experts with a foolproof system for doing so safely and without getting caught. And by 21 driving is second nature, something they take entirely for granted, so the pattern of always having a car on hand to get from point A to point B is so ingrained that doing otherwise feels like a huge hassle.

Besides, on the simple logic of it... Shouldn't it require MORE maturity and responsibility to handle a machine with the potential to kill or injure others than it does to decide if you want to imbibe an intoxicant that will (with driving taken out of the equation) at worst only harm yourself?
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:00 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by mhsjax View Post
Not when I grew up. I just don't believe it with kids, adults have a hard time with designated drivers, I don't believe that kids are mature enough to do the same thing. They can tell you what you want to hear, but I do not for 1 second believe it. If you have kids that don't like to drink, then chances are they won't be going to these types of parties, no one wants to stand there with a bunch of drunk kids and be the only sober one. Yep, I guess I live in the only area where kids drink and drive, silly me.
Im sure you arent in the only area, however what I posted was true for the area I grew up in and continue to live in, but maybe it was because the host of the party stood at the door and took your keys as you entered the house. Like I did say though the majority of the time people just stayed there.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:03 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Colleen27 View Post
Not everyone chooses the same hill to die on. I'll be honest - I don't think teens experimenting with alcohol is a big deal so long as they aren't getting behind the wheel afterwards. I think the way our society addresses alcohol is misguided at best, and the lessons I pass on to my kids are far more "think about the possible consequences" than "just say no".



I agree. Those "buzzed driving" commercials have it right... by the time they're old enough to drink legally, many people have enough experience driving after a few drinks to think of themselves as experts with a foolproof system for doing so safely and without getting caught. And by 21 driving is second nature, something they take entirely for granted, so the pattern of always having a car on hand to get from point A to point B is so ingrained that doing otherwise feels like a huge hassle.

Besides, on the simple logic of it... Shouldn't it require MORE maturity and responsibility to handle a machine with the potential to kill or injure others than it does to decide if you want to imbibe an intoxicant that will (with driving taken out of the equation) at worst only harm yourself?
Sorry, but keg parties every weekend is way beyond a little experimenting IMO. I'm fine with a teen wanting to try beer or a cocktail. I think making something completely off limits just makes the urge to have it more intense.

We live in a school district that is 60 square miles and includes a lot of rural areas. Parties definitely involve a lot of driving which, like you, is what scares me the most.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:06 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by JennaDeeDooDah View Post
This is an excellent post. I remember being in high school and college and hearing that the designated driver was the person who was least drunk at the end of the night. Sometimes it was the person who only had 2 or 3 drinks. I even knew friends who insisted that they were better drivers when they were drunk or had had a few too many, because they paid much closer attention to what they were doing. Kids tend to think that they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof.
To me that's all the more reason to have the drinking age lower than the driving age by at least a couple years... It takes the car keys out of the hands of kids who are in that stage of overindulging in something new, and it normalizes having an alternative ride home because no one (or only the few older friends) are driving at all.

It wouldn't end drunk driving entirely... Nothing will. But it would curtail the tragedies we hear about every prom and graduation season of teens who are new to both driving and to drinking killing themselves and others by mixing the two.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:11 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Poohforyou View Post
Sorry, but keg parties every weekend is way beyond a little experimenting IMO. I'm fine with a teen wanting to try beer or a cocktail. I think making something completely off limits just makes the urge to have it more intense.

We live in a school district that is 60 square miles and includes a lot of rural areas. Parties definitely involve a lot of driving which, like you, is what scares me the most.
But isnt what makes the keg parties so fun and exciting is the whole forbidden factor?
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:12 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by mhsjax View Post
I 100% disagree with your line of thinking.
I am not surprised by this, are you?

I would like to know WHY you disagree though

Do you believe that if the drinking age were lowered and driving age raised, that teens who had broken no laws drinking and could not legally drive under any circumstances,would steal cars in order to drive home illegally so they would end up drunk driving anyway?

Do you a believe a teen who had been drinking, 100% legally, would be just as worried about a parent finding out and equally compelled to try to drive himself home in the hopes of not getting caught, as one who was breaking the law (and risking scholarships, etc to boot) would be?

Do you not believe that the more someone does, well, just about ANYthing successfully, the more they feel confident in their abilities to do it again successfully in the future?
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:17 AM   #67
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I can't see a high school senior asking permission. They could say they're going to mall and go to a party. Unless you have a camera or with your child 24 hours you won't know what they're doing.
Some kids will be away at college in a few months and you will know if they're even going to class.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:18 AM   #68
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I too went to parties like this in the 80's in school---even drove across the state line to a state with a different age limit with a fake ID.

Have my kids attended parties like this---I am sure they have and will in the future. All I can pound into them is don't drink and drive or get in the car with someone who has been drinking. You hope they have enough sense to remember MOM SAID CALL ME NO QUESTIONS ASKED ...she will give us a ride home.

I posted back early this year about my older son and issues we had with doing wrong things. He has straightened out---no worries about him regressing. My younger one I have no concerns about---but there is always the temptation for both. But we also keep our eyes and ears open more and with older have no issues checking up on where he is. He broke our trust hard and is now slowly earning it back....tough love but had to be done!

BUT now the kicker...
Kids sign form with rules saying they apply ON OR OFF SCHOOL GROUNDS 365 days a year 24 hours/day. Then it lists alcohol, tobacco, drugs, vandalism, etc etc. It lists consequences also, if you do XYZ punishment is this, if you do ABC it is that, etc

This paper is part of the state high school athletic association---students AND parents sign to participate.

So now all these parents are yelling FOUL. Saying you can't do that to my kid and making excuses for them. Going to admin and fighting, crying, *****ing, etc.

My kids would learn the hard way....mom and dad won't make excuses for you. You break the rules, you suffer the consequences. We talked about this last night. Oldest is a senior and does a spring sport (which these kids supposedly can't do because of this). Said see how on decision can change if you play your sport or not.

WOULD YOU GO FIGHT FOR YOUR KID AND MAKE EXCUSES...if they were caught by police, broke rules they signed paper for????
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poohforyou View Post
Sorry, but keg parties every weekend is way beyond a little experimenting IMO. I'm fine with a teen wanting to try beer or a cocktail. I think making something completely off limits just makes the urge to have it more intense.

We live in a school district that is 60 square miles and includes a lot of rural areas. Parties definitely involve a lot of driving which, like you, is what scares me the most.
I would agree with this. My teens (well, really only my older one thus far) hears of or sees people drinking and being drunk sometimes--but never to the extent that we saw in the US (both when I was in highschool and more recently when we knew a lot of highschoolers). The general consensus among DD's friends is that drinking until you are sick is both stupid/dangerous and disgusting. Then again, there is no forbidden fruit ssue, and t is not uncommon to see a group of teens all having a beer on their way home from school on a Friday afternoon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colleen27 View Post
To me that's all the more reason to have the drinking age lower than the driving age by at least a couple years... It takes the car keys out of the hands of kids who are in that stage of overindulging in something new, and it normalizes having an alternative ride home because no one (or only the few older friends) are driving at all.

It wouldn't end drunk driving entirely... Nothing will. But it would curtail the tragedies we hear about every prom and graduation season of teens who are new to both driving and to drinking killing themselves and others by mixing the two.
You explain it so much better than I do
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:23 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by zoo2tycoon View Post
I too went to parties like this in the 80's in school---even drove across the state line to a state with a different age limit with a fake ID.

Have my kids attended parties like this---I am sure they have and will in the future. All I can pound into them is don't drink and drive or get in the car with someone who has been drinking. You hope they have enough sense to remember MOM SAID CALL ME NO QUESTIONS ASKED ...she will give us a ride home.

I posted back early this year about my older son and issues we had with doing wrong things. He has straightened out---no worries about him regressing. My younger one I have no concerns about---but there is always the temptation for both. But we also keep our eyes and ears open more and with older have no issues checking up on where he is. He broke our trust hard and is now slowly earning it back....tough love but had to be done!

BUT now the kicker...
Kids sign form with rules saying they apply ON OR OFF SCHOOL GROUNDS 365 days a year 24 hours/day. Then it lists alcohol, tobacco, drugs, vandalism, etc etc. It lists consequences also, if you do XYZ punishment is this, if you do ABC it is that, etc

This paper is part of the state high school athletic association---students AND parents sign to participate.

So now all these parents are yelling FOUL. Saying you can't do that to my kid and making excuses for them. Going to admin and fighting, crying, b**ching, etc.

My kids would learn the hard way....mom and dad won't make excuses for you. You break the rules, you suffer the consequences. We talked about this last night. Oldest is a senior and does a spring sport (which these kids supposedly can't do because of this). Said see how on decision can change if you play your sport or not.

WOULD YOU GO FIGHT FOR YOUR KID AND MAKE EXCUSES...if they were caught by police, broke rules they signed paper for????
Personally if the sport/activity required an agreement like that my child would not being doing the activity.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:24 AM   #71
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Personally if the sport/activity required an agreement like that my child would not being doing the activity.

Well guess your child would do no high school sports in our state. It is mandatory they sign or they don't participate.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:26 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo2tycoon View Post
I too went to parties like this in the 80's in school---even drove across the state line to a state with a different age limit with a fake ID.

Have my kids attended parties like this---I am sure they have and will in the future. All I can pound into them is don't drink and drive or get in the car with someone who has been drinking. You hope they have enough sense to remember MOM SAID CALL ME NO QUESTIONS ASKED ...she will give us a ride home.

I posted back early this year about my older son and issues we had with doing wrong things. He has straightened out---no worries about him regressing. My younger one I have no concerns about---but there is always the temptation for both. But we also keep our eyes and ears open more and with older have no issues checking up on where he is. He broke our trust hard and is now slowly earning it back....tough love but had to be done!

BUT now the kicker...
Kids sign form with rules saying they apply ON OR OFF SCHOOL GROUNDS 365 days a year 24 hours/day. Then it lists alcohol, tobacco, drugs, vandalism, etc etc. It lists consequences also, if you do XYZ punishment is this, if you do ABC it is that, etc

This paper is part of the state high school athletic association---students AND parents sign to participate.

So now all these parents are yelling FOUL. Saying you can't do that to my kid and making excuses for them. Going to admin and fighting, crying, b**ching, etc.

My kids would learn the hard way....mom and dad won't make excuses for you. You break the rules, you suffer the consequences. We talked about this last night. Oldest is a senior and does a spring sport (which these kids supposedly can't do because of this). Said see how on decision can change if you play your sport or not.

WOULD YOU GO FIGHT FOR YOUR KID AND MAKE EXCUSES...if they were caught by police, broke rules they signed paper for????
Actually, I would not let my kid participate in an activity which required signing of the form, and I would complain the the state about requiring it for school activities at all.
I 100% support having rules which apply to ANY time the child is involved in the school activity in any way (at practice, at the hotel when at an away game, etc)--but really do not think they have a right to tell my child, or ANY child, what to do outside of those hours.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:32 AM   #73
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Drinking age in Canada I believe is 19 now.
Depends on the province.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:33 AM   #74
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To me that's all the more reason to have the drinking age lower than the driving age by at least a couple years... It takes the car keys out of the hands of kids who are in that stage of overindulging in something new, and it normalizes having an alternative ride home because no one (or only the few older friends) are driving at all.

It wouldn't end drunk driving entirely... Nothing will. But it would curtail the tragedies we hear about every prom and graduation season of teens who are new to both driving and to drinking killing themselves and others by mixing the two.
I can say with almost absolute certainty the drinking age in this country will never be 14.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:34 AM   #75
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Seriously? How dare you tell my child he can't drink, smoke, or vandalize?

I EXPECT the school to have those expectations of my child!
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