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Old 10-06-2012, 11:22 PM   #1
LisaR
 
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Ten guilty votes / Two not guilty votes equal....

Guilty!

Watching 48 Hours. If ten jurors find a defendant guilty of murder and the other two find him not guilty, a mistrial would be declared....unless you are in Louisiana. All you need are ten guilty verdicts to convict of murder. It doesn't matter how the other two vote.

As they say, you learn something new every day. I didn't know this and it doesn't seem quite right to me.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:36 PM   #2
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Ehh. I don't think it's so bad, honestly I think I kinda prefer it, maybe it'd be better and little stronger of an argument if you had to have any 11, and not 12?? Not sure, haven't thought about it enough, but I really kinda think having 83% or 91% of a jury believe someone is guilty (especially when you think about all the evidence that can get thrown out of a trial, and the fact that a defendant's character and pattern of behavior is usually not admissible) that it should probably be enough. Yes I am probably a tad biased, as I've worked at the D.A.'s office and I've seen everyday how many different ways and almost easy it is for defendants to almost always have the upper hand in a trial (especially if they have money.) Obviously no one ever wants an innocent person to be found guilty of something they did not commit, but man do A LOT of people who commit crimes get off...usually over and over and over again.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brockash View Post
Ehh. I don't think it's so bad, honestly I think I kinda prefer it, maybe it'd be better and little stronger of an argument if you had to have any 11, and not 12?? Not sure, haven't thought about it enough, but I really kinda think having 83% or 91% of a jury believe someone is guilty (especially when you think about all the evidence that can get thrown out of a trial, and the fact that a defendant's character and pattern of behavior is usually not admissible) that it should probably be enough. Yes I am probably a tad biased, as I've worked at the D.A.'s office and I've seen everyday how many different ways and almost easy it is for defendants to almost always have the upper hand in a trial (especially if they have money.) Obviously no one ever wants an innocent person to be found guilty of something they did not commit, but man do A LOT of people who commit crimes get off...usually over and over and over again.
I agree.

DH was on a jury a few months ago where the jury couldn't get a 12 man vote of guilty.

DH had a strong feeling and believed the guy was guilty of the crime of selling drugs close to a school. But the defense's case was based on clerical mistakes made in the police report by the cops.

DH held his ground until there were just 2 left saying guilty and it was late in the evening.

The verdict came out not guilty and the judge said ok, "Mr. so and so you are not guilty on these charges, but you do understand that you will return to jail on your sentences of CAPITAL MURDER and blah, blah, blah!" This one guilty verdict could have kept the man from getting parole in a few years.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:18 AM   #4
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If the jury needs to come to an unanimous decision, I feel as if they will spend some time talking the case out. During the first vote, it is unlikely that they will all agree. If the vote is 8 - 4, they will talk it out. If it is 10 - 2, discussion likely ends because they don't need the other votes.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:12 AM   #5
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I saw an episode, forgot which state, but they need 11 jurors to find guilty or not guilty.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #6
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Louisiana's common law, of which the need for a non-unanimous jury is part, is based on the Napoleonic Code; the rest of the country's common law is based on English common law. Two very different systems. (For example, the Napoleonic Code has no presumption of innocence. Of course, this has no effect on Federal law or laws governed by the US Constitution.)

Whether you need a unanimous verdict in a criminal trial is based solely on state law. These can vary quite a bit. And they vary even within a state depending on the charge.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by LisaR View Post
Guilty!

Watching 48 Hours. If ten jurors find a defendant guilty of murder and the other two find him not guilty, a mistrial would be declared....unless you are in Louisiana. All you need are ten guilty verdicts to convict of murder. It doesn't matter how the other two vote.

As they say, you learn something new every day. I didn't know this and it doesn't seem quite right to me.
What happens when there is a mistrial? Does the defendant stand trial again?
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:56 PM   #8
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What happens when there is a mistrial? Does the defendant stand trial again?
Only if the prosecutor decides to re-try the case.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:12 PM   #9
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Only if the prosecutor decides to re-try the case.
Then I'm definitely okay with a majority vote. If 12 people hear the same evidence and 10 of them agree there was enough of it to convict, that is good enough for me.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #10
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Then I'm definitely okay with a majority vote. If 12 people hear the same evidence and 10 of them agree there was enough of it to convict, that is good enough for me.
It's hard for me to say this, but I think I agree with this. I've read about cases where a juror would cause a hung jury and later make a comment like, "There was no way he could have done it, he just didn't look like he could be guilty." I read about one where the jurist said the accused rapist was too good looking to have done it (wouldn't have had to do that for sex).
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:35 PM   #11
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Then I'm definitely okay with a majority vote. If 12 people hear the same evidence and 10 of them agree there was enough of it to convict, that is good enough for me.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:45 PM   #12
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Guilty!

Watching 48 Hours. If ten jurors find a defendant guilty of murder and the other two find him not guilty, a mistrial would be declared....unless you are in Louisiana. All you need are ten guilty verdicts to convict of murder. It doesn't matter how the other two vote.

As they say, you learn something new every day. I didn't know this and it doesn't seem quite right to me.
I watched that 48 Hours last night too. I was also surprised that in Louisiana you only needed ten guilty verdicts to convict. That said, I honestly don't think there was enough evidence to convict those two girls of murder, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:33 PM   #13
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Then I'm definitely okay with a majority vote. If 12 people hear the same evidence and 10 of them agree there was enough of it to convict, that is good enough for me.
I am definitely not okay with it in a murder case where the death penalty or life in prison is on the line. I'd be okay with it in a drug case, tax evasion, domestic abuse, etc but not murder.

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I watched that 48 Hours last night too. I was also surprised that in Louisiana you only needed ten guilty verdicts to convict. That said, I honestly don't think there was enough evidence to convict those two girls of murder, but that's just my opinion.
Same here. The woman that voted not guilty said about two sentences. I'm guessing that was all she got to say when they were deliberating as well. I'm guessing they voted and had enough to call it guilty and that was that. If my life was on the line, especially when the evidence was so weak, I'd hope the people deciding my life could come to an agreement and anyone that wanted to speak up for me would have the opportunity to do so.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #14
luvmy3
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I am definitely not okay with it in a murder case where the death penalty or life in prison is on the line. I'd be okay with it in a drug case, tax evasion, domestic abuse, etc but not murder.
I don't have a problem with it in any of those cases. I have more confidence in 10 people that agree than I do in the 2 people who didn't see what they did. And that goes for a not-guilty verdict either.

I just googled what happens after a mistrial and it turns out in cases of a deadlocked jury, they do re-try the defendant. It seems like a waste of time and money to go trough it all again just because 2 people held out.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #15
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I watched that 48 Hours last night too. I was also surprised that in Louisiana you only needed ten guilty verdicts to convict. That said, I honestly don't think there was enough evidence to convict those two girls of murder, but that's just my opinion.
I agree. They'll probably get a new trial on appeal. The guy was a hound dog. They never even looked at his mistress' husband.

Lawyers.Com > Understand Your Legal Issue > Criminal Law > Criminal Law Process > Jury Voting Requirements To Return A Verdict


Jury Voting Requirements to Return a Verdict
POSTED IN Criminal Law Process BY Lawyers.com
Jurors in a criminal trial have the responsibility to decide whether an accused individual, or defendant, is guilty of the crime charged by the federal or state government. There may be many jury decisions to be made since the criminal case may have multiple defendants and multiple charged crimes. These decisions are returned to the court in the form of a verdict.

To return a verdict to the court, the jurors must first vote and agree with the decisions contained in the verdict. The jury voting requirements are major factors in determining whether a defendant will be found guilty of a charged crime. The greater the number of required jurors that are needed to agree on the verdict, the greater the chance a defendant will be found not guilty. The number of jurors required to agree on the verdict varies between the federal and state courts.
Unanimous Vote Only Required in Federal Criminal Trials

A verdict in a federal criminal case must be made by a unanimous vote. If one juror disagrees with the rest of the jurors and votes differently, a verdict can't be returned to the court. This right provides great protection to the defendant and requires the government to have to prove to each juror that the defendant committed the charged crime.

The unanimity requirement doesn't extend to state criminal courts. States have the authority to decide whether or not to require a unanimous vote to return a criminal jury verdict. However, only two states have chosen not to require juries to reach unanimous verdicts: Louisiana and Oregon. Both of these states will allow verdicts by a vote of 10 to 2.

Louisiana does require a unanimous verdict in capital criminal cases. A capital crime is one that can be punishable by death. Oregon requires a unanimous verdict in first-degree murder cases. A first-degree murder is a murder that's committed with premeditation or during the course of a serious felony.


It must not have been a death penalty case.
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