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Old 10-09-2012, 01:08 PM   #106
eliza61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmy3

No need to get defensive about my comments eliza, I wasn't referring to people who are defending the judicial system, I was speaking about people who defend him. Isn't that what I said in my pp?
It was also a response to one particular person, one who clearly was speaking in defense of him and not our judicial system. No need for you to even respond to it if you aren't one of those people defending him Maybe there is a part of you that does defend him and that is why you seem to have taken it personally? If not then I guess you just misunderstood what I said and who I was saying it too.

Oh and I understand he is he is legally free to own a dog. I don't agree with it, but that is how our system works. However, that doesn't stop me from hating what he did and thinking he is a disgusting human being
Not at all, Mike is just another name to me, no better or worse than any other person who does some thing hideous. If I'm asked about him my answer is pretty basic, he did the crime, he got caught and he did his time. So he gets to now do what he wishes. Do I hate him? No. Do I hate vigilantism more than Vick? Yep. Do I wish he stop turning over the ball? Yep, I love football and baseball. No more, no less
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
we're not defending him, we are defending a SYSTEM. Mike was convicted and did his time and did his probation, THEREFORE according to the law of the land guess what he gets to return to society. Just because you don't like him that does not mean people get to prosecute him over and over. Just because you do like him doesn't mean he forfeits any of the benefits of a society he lives in and guess what, that includes owning a dog.

You have zero mercy ok, we got it. says a lot about your character but call me pathetic but I like the way our system is set up. It prevents emotions like yours from over taking common sense. It prevents for the most part "lynch mob" mentality from ruling. What makes your dislike of him any more important than some ones opposite view? nothing.

That's what makes the system great yep it applies to those we hate also and that I will defend.
There is no vigilantism; no one is prosecuting him, nor could they.

I'd be happy to show pics of animals tortured and killed for food, as I won't have anything to do with that and think those aren't good people either, but even I see a difference between the horrid things that go on on a farm and personally beating animals to death with your hands.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:30 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
Not at all, Mike is just another name to me, no better or worse than any other person who does some thing hideous. If I'm asked about him my answer is pretty basic, he did the crime, he got caught and he did his time. So he gets to now do what he wishes. Do I hate him? No. Do I hate vigilantism more than Vick? Yep. Do I wish he stop turning over the ball? Yep, I love football and baseball. No more, no less
Okay, that is great for you, you don't hate him. I do, lots of other people do too. I think he is despicable, and a lousy excuse for a human. None of that has anything to do with the fact that he paid for his crime. Paying for your crime does not mean you are absolved of what you did, you are still the type of person that could do something so heinous. The only thing paying for your crime means is that you have fulfilled your required punishment set by the State, it doesn't make you a better person. If you were a better person, you wouldn't have committed the crime in the first place, but I digress.

As far as your vigilantism reference, I don't know if you realize this but hate does not equal vigilante.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:52 PM   #109
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Yep, so is murder and yet the US has one of the highest murder rates.
You are trying to circumvent the discussion.

So I will reiterate my original comments (though if you want to keep going round in circles, we can).

Quote:
Anyone who can deliberately and callously cause needless pain and suffering to another living being is evil in my book and not someone I want anything to do with.
Quote:
it's NOT the same thing as the deliberate torture and execution of dogs, for fun and entertainment, carried out by Michael Vick and his buddies
But Eliza, I'd really like to ask you one thing. You could actually stand to be in the same room with someone who treated an innocent living being this way, i.e. deliberate torture and execution of dogs, for fun and entertainment?

If so, then that is where you and I differ.

I won't go as far as to say I wish him harm, because I don't, but I do think he is evil having done what he did - for fun and entertainment.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:03 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Pea-n-Me View Post
You are trying to circumvent the discussion.

So I will reiterate my original comments (though if you want to keep going round in circles, we can).





But Eliza, I'd really like to ask you one thing. You could actually stand to be in the same room with someone who treated an innocent living being this way, i.e. deliberate torture and execution of dogs, for fun and entertainment?
If so, then that is where you and I differ.

I won't go as far as to say I wish him harm, because I don't, but I do think he is evil having done what he did - for fun and entertainment.
I'm really not trying to circumvent any thing. The conversation overall is about whether the gentlemen should be or should not be allowed to have dogs. My position is really simply, he did his crime and time. He should be allowed his full rights. You pointed out that animal abuse is illegal, I totally know that, I also totally know that the legality of some thing has yet to stop millions of human beings from acting in whatever way please them.

This type of question came up with the Caylee Anthony case, do I think Casey killed her daughter? without a doubt. Would I try to prevent her from moving into my neighborhood? No I would not, she was charged, tried and acquitted. she gets the right to live where she can afford. Would I be inviting her over for dinner or baking her a "welcome to the neighborhood" cake. Nope.

Guess it would depend. If I'm on Main street Magic kingdom and Michael Vick and family came walking down the street would I leave, Oh heck no. not sure I'm understanding what leaving would do but if you would that's cool. Would I approach him and ask for an autograph or allow my kids to? Once again, no. Would I alert the security guards and rant about a animal abuser being in the parks? Once again no I would not. I would pretty much continue on with my ordinary life and enjoy my day in the magic kingdom.

If I'm hanging out having dinner at Chickie and Pete's ( a popular sports bar, down the block from Lincoln financial field) would I get up and leave because Vick entered? Nope, I don't think I'll get poisioned from the breathing the same air, it's a public restaurant and I should end my enjoyable evening because some one I don't like walks into the room? Would I suddenly boycott Chickie and Petes because they let him in? Once again, nope, I'm sure there are quite a few folks in there with just as bad skeletons in their closet.

Would I invite him to a function I was having? No.

This is a hard question because I don't hang in the same places as many famous people so the only places I could imagine us being in the same place are restaurants/public places.

I did have an Uncle who abused his wife, once again when he came to the family reunion did I leave? No. wasn't about to let him stop me from seeing my family. Do I ever invite over for Christmas dinner? No I do not. but the team who put the reunion together invited the entire family, not sure if it came up whether or not he should be invited since I wasn't on the planning committee but he received a pamphlet, mailed in his registration and money so that was that.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:30 PM   #111
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Anyone who can deliberately and callously cause needless pain and suffering to another living being is evil in my book and not someone I want anything to do with.

Remember that Nike chose to have Michael Vick endorse their products. If you really want to make a statement about him, don't buy Nike.
Wife just paid $170 for a pair last night. I have some Air Jordans coming this weekend. Wonderful shoes.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:15 PM   #112
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Wife just paid $170 for a pair last night. I have some Air Jordans coming this weekend. Wonderful shoes.
Good for you. I wouldn't take them for free.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:35 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
I'm really not trying to circumvent any thing. The conversation overall is about whether the gentlemen should be or should not be allowed to have dogs. My position is really simply, he did his crime and time. He should be allowed his full rights. You pointed out that animal abuse is illegal, I totally know that
That was only in response to your assertion that torture and abuse of animals is “ok”, which it's not, obviously.

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So the torture and abuse of animals is ok, if it is done to make a profit but not ok when it's for entertainment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61
I also totally know that the legality of some thing has yet to stop millions of human beings from acting in whatever way please them.
But as you yourself alluded to, laws are a good thing. Just because people break them doesn’t mean they’re right for doing so.

I don't think MV can be prevented from owning a dog again. Do I like that fact? No. But since I am a law-abiding citizen, I recognize he did his time and I would support his “right” to own a dog again.

Do I personally want him to own another dog again? No, I don’t. Like others, I would have been more supportive of him if he had shown some remorse and actually helped make a positive difference in the lives of animals via an organization like the ASPCA, who gave him the opportunity. Do I lose sleep over it? No, I don’t. My father had a saying, “You can’t do wrong and come out right”. It may appear he’s “coming out right”, but really, we know better; I know better. Evil perpetuates evil. He will be his own worst enemy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...html?ir=Sports
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:50 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
we're not defending him, we are defending a SYSTEM. Mike was convicted and did his time and did his probation, THEREFORE according to the law of the land guess what he gets to return to society. Just because you don't like him that does not mean people get to prosecute him over and over. Just because you do like him doesn't mean he forfeits any of the benefits of a society he lives in and guess what, that includes owning a dog.

You have zero mercy ok, we got it. says a lot about your character but call me pathetic but I like the way our system is set up. It prevents emotions like yours from over taking common sense. It prevents for the most part "lynch mob" mentality from ruling. What makes your dislike of him any more important than some ones opposite view? nothing.

That's what makes the system great yep it applies to those we hate also and that I will defend.
And, I think it says alot about someone's personality when they string up their children's pet dog and electrocute them to death. Or, when they start up a illegal gambling ring and find enjoyment in watching animals rip each other apart.

I don't understand why people don't understand this, you have to be SERIOUSLY screwed up to watch the kind of violence that he actively participated (and profited) in. Sociopathic behavior...you don't get "rehabilitated" from that...you get better at hiding it, though.
Google the triad of sociopathy and you will see that I'm not just making this stuff up.

As far as his "talent", if you are a horrible person any "talent" you have is worthless. I cannot separate a violent human being who is capable of such horrendous acts from any other sociopath just because he can play football. And, truthfully, it disappoints me that we put such on an emphasis on sports rather than being a good human being. I think it says alot about our society.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:34 PM   #115
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And, I will elaborate further by stating, I feel this way about all the sports players who do something that overshadows their "talent" (i.e-rape, murder or beating up their significant other). All these losers make me throw up in my mouth, quite frankly.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:56 PM   #116
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[QUOTE=eliza61;46392332]we're not defending him, we are defending a SYSTEM. Mike was convicted and did his time and did his probation, THEREFORE according to the law of the land guess what he gets to return to society. Just because you don't like him that does not mean people get to prosecute him over and over. Just because you do like him doesn't mean he forfeits any of the benefits of a society he lives in and guess what, that includes owning a dog.

You have zero mercy ok, we got it. says a lot about your character but call me pathetic but I like the way our system is set up. It prevents emotions like yours from over taking common sense. It prevents for the most part "lynch mob" mentality from ruling. What makes your dislike of him any more important than some ones opposite view? nothing.

That's what makes the system great yep it applies to those we hate also and that I will defend.[/QUOTE]

It is so interesting you call this "system" so great. I remembered you from another thread...about Trayvon Martin. Interesting because I remembered you being very vocal about the "system", so (and, yes, please forgive me) I did some thread stalking.

THis is what you said, at the time about the great system...

If people don't want public opinion deciding cases then it might help if the people entrusted to do their job actually do it.

And yep, I totally admit. You kill my child and the police do nothing I am 100% "lawyering up". In fact I'm finding the most persistant, ruthless, loud lawyer every last dime of my money can find.

Also, found this...

I think it's sadder that the people we entrust to find out innocence or guilty do not do their jobs simply based on what they percieve as the "worth" of a a particular individual.Had these parents not diligently kick up a fuss, this would have been simply another black child dead. no big deal. George Zimmerman himself said he thought this "would all blow over".

I really could care less if his life is over because he has more of a life than Trayvon Martin does.

That last statement seems a little judgemental to me...a little like you have no mercy for George Zimmerman...
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:50 PM   #117
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Good for you. I wouldn't take them for free.



My kids haven't bought a Nike product since they learned what Michael Vick was. They never even look at them. There are plenty of other shoes out there made by companies that don't pay animal abusers money to hawk their goods.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:55 PM   #118
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And, I will elaborate further by stating, I feel this way about all the sports players who do something that overshadows their "talent" (i.e-rape, murder or beating up their significant other). All these losers make me throw up in my mouth, quite frankly.
ITA.

However, I will disagree with you on the mercy. He had no mercy for those poor animals, he gets none from me. He doesn't deserve it.

As far as owning a dog, anyone who has abused, tortured and killed a dog, or any animal, should be barred from having one. He doesn't deserve that either. If his kids want a dog, their mother should move her and the kids away from him and get them a dog.

How you could choose to live and raise children with a beast like Vick that would do that to animals, it is just beyond me.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:03 PM   #119
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How you could choose to live and raise children with a beast like Vick that would do that to animals, it is just beyond me.
It is beyond me to unless she is as heartless toward animals as he is and doesn't see anything wrong with what he did.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:33 PM   #120
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There is no vigilantism; no one is prosecuting him, nor could they.
Perhaps you haven't advocated vigilantism, but another in this thread has openly advocated for someone to kill him. Not only should that behavior be unacceptable to the mods of this site, but it should be unacceptable to all users of this site. Further, posts such as that one could, in fact, be determined to violate the law.
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