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Old 10-01-2012, 08:06 AM   #31
cornflake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanAnnie View Post
Thanks for everyone's input. I think it is fascinating reading. I really do. There is scientific research that validates the cardiologist's findings. Part of me doesn't want to believe it because, come on! It's wheat! It's supposed to be good for you! But then what he states makes a lot of sense.

So, like I said, I'm keeping an open mind about it.

I'm not what I would consider fat. I have some pounds to lose but not a whole lot. My belly isn't terribly big, it's just not responding to my dietary changes like I'd like. But in the end, it isn't about the pounds it's more about feeling better and eating better.

I've been tweaking my eating habits for quite awhile now. Anyone that has read the, "Foods states are known for", thread can come to the conclusion that I do like to eat. But I exercise too. It's all about moderation/balance for me.

I don't know if or how I'll use the information at this point. I'm still gathering information. I know there are a lot of alternatives for wheat and wheat products, so it may be just a matter of a different selection. I don't know. It wouldn't anything hurt to try.

We'll see.
On another board, someone just posted a "scientific study" saying that GMO corn caused terrible diseases. The study, if you looked closely enough, was not what one would call rigorous or at one with sense. Yet it exists and people cite it.

As to the claims made in the wheat book, some scientists at Berkeley address some of them here, in 'Wheatphobia', including -

Quote:
Claim: Most grains are bad, but modern wheat is the worst because it has been altered over the years via selective breeding and is now a virtual “Frankengrain.” It is loaded with amylopectin A (a starch unique to wheat), which is “worse than table sugar,” Dr. Davis says, boosting blood sugar dramatically and stimulating appetite. Modern wheat also contains other components with adverse effects, and its gluten (a protein) is more likely to trigger reactions than that in older wheat.

Fact: For well over a century, food scientists have developed hybrid varieties of wheat to be sturdier and have higher yields, better quality, and greater resistance to disease and insects. That’s true of most food crops There’s no clinical evidence that differences between today’s wheat and older varieties have adverse effects on our health. It’s all supposition on Dr. Davis’s part...

Claim: Wheat is the main culprit behind the obesity epidemic.

Fact: Wheat is a staple in most parts of the world, and there’s little or no correlation between regional intakes (as a proportion of daily calories) and rates of obesity. Per capita wheat consumption in the U.S. has actually dropped since 2000, but there’s no sign that is slowing the expansion of our waistlines. In fact, a century ago Americans ate much more wheat than we do today, and very few were obese (granted, diets and lifestyles differed in many ways then). In any case, the obesity epidemic certainly can’t be attributed to any single factor...

Claim: Whole wheat isn’t much better than refined wheat, so overweight people and those with chronic diseases should avoid it as well.

Fact: Many studies have linked higher intakes of whole grains (including whole wheat) with a reduced risk of diabetes, heart disease, and stroke, as well as improvements in blood cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar control. Other studies have found that whole wheat can help people control their weight and/or lose body fat, especially when they eat it in place of refined-wheat products.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
On another board, someone just posted a "scientific study" saying that GMO corn caused terrible diseases. The study, if you looked closely enough, was not what one would call rigorous or at one with sense. Yet it exists and people cite it.

As to the claims made in the wheat book, some scientists at Berkeley address some of them here, in 'Wheatphobia', including -
Well, here's the thing, you get 10 scientists in a room, how many are going to agree on anything? They get paid to pick things apart. Anyway, I'm still reading about it.

I did read something about GM corn and cancer the other day, but it was coming from Russia. Here is the article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ncer-risk.html

Yeah, the article is from the DM. Some people don't like it. I do. I think it's an interesting article. You may not. We don't have a lot of data spanning the test of time about engineered foods. Something to think about, for me at least.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:15 AM   #33
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My parents gave up wheat about three weeks ago. They did it to see if it would help with their arthritis. They say that they are not having any problems and are also losing a bit of weight as well. They also said that they walked past the bread counter at the deli the other day and didn't even crave it. Wow.

OP, try it. If it works for you great, if not, all you've lost out on is a few weeks of not eating wheat, right?
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:59 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanAnnie View Post
Well, here's the thing, you get 10 scientists in a room, how many are going to agree on anything? They get paid to pick things apart. Anyway, I'm still reading about it.

I did read something about GM corn and cancer the other day, but it was coming from Russia. Here is the article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ncer-risk.html

Yeah, the article is from the DM. Some people don't like it. I do. I think it's an interesting article. You may not. We don't have a lot of data spanning the test of time about engineered foods. Something to think about, for me at least.
The Wall Street Journal also ran a similar article, so it's not just the Daily Mail. I would link it but I think you need a subscription now to read it. Anyway, Russia made the decision based on the study. The EU is also now looking into it. How does the US handle such matters? By continued support of Monsanto, its ilk and their Frankenfood, letting them run amok, up and over the farming industry and then not requiring labling of GMO containing foods. Good job US!

Last edited by Princess Dolly; 10-01-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:16 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HM View Post
My parents gave up wheat about three weeks ago. They did it to see if it would help with their arthritis. They say that they are not having any problems and are also losing a bit of weight as well. They also said that they walked past the bread counter at the deli the other day and didn't even crave it. Wow.

OP, try it. If it works for you great, if not, all you've lost out on is a few weeks of not eating wheat, right?
That's awesome for your parents.

You know, I think I will try it. I don't think the food industry will miss my little contribution towards wheat. I mean it will go somewhere else within the industry. I am still going to eat! If it doesn't amount to anything for me, no big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Dolly View Post
The Wall Street Journal also ran a similar article, so it's not just the Daily Mail. I would link it but I think you need a subscription now to read it. Anyway, Russia made the decision based on the American study. The EU is also now looking into it. How does the US handle such matters? By continued support of Monsanto, its ilk and their Frankenfood, letting them run amok, up and over the farming industry and then not requiring labling of GMO containing foods. Good job US!
Oh the WSJ too?! Huh. It certainly does make a person pause, doesn't it. Russia and the EU are acting on an American study but we as Americans aren't? Something seems amiss with that one.

I think we as consumers should ask questions and keep asking them. I'm curious by nature anyway.
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Last edited by OceanAnnie; 10-01-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by OceanAnnie View Post
Well, here's the thing, you get 10 scientists in a room, how many are going to agree on anything? They get paid to pick things apart. Anyway, I'm still reading about it.

I did read something about GM corn and cancer the other day, but it was coming from Russia. Here is the article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ncer-risk.html

Yeah, the article is from the DM. Some people don't like it. I do. I think it's an interesting article. You may not. We don't have a lot of data spanning the test of time about engineered foods. Something to think about, for me at least.
That was the study, yep.

The study is ridiculous. You can read it; it's like a college freshman designed it. They don't even mention how much the rats were fed, which is a huge variable that has implications of its own in that area. They also don't mention that those rats are tumour-prone (they're the same type used in other studies but the longer they're observed... etc.), etc., etc.

The "scientist" who did the "study" is apparently notorious for going after Mosanto any which way.

It's not about 10 scientists each with a different opinion, it's like the climate change thing. I'm not discussing the politics of it but that there are people who say there are X number of scientists who disagree with what is accepted as fact by the general scientific population in order to try that '10 scientists, all different, who knows' thing. But all scientists or people claiming to be scientists, aren't equal. All studies aren't equal.

I don't think the GMO one was in a straight, peer-reviewed journal, or it'd likely not have even been accepted, because it's not a proper study.

Same as other 'shock' studies I've seen. Yes, sometimes a scientists someplace gets a shocking result. When it's a real scientist, they open their work and invite others to replicate it, because that's what science is. When the first team had a particle exceeding the speed of light, their press release was full of 'this is an unexpected result, thus it may very well have been our error but this is what we got; we are waiting for others to confirm or deny this based on replicating our experiment, which is right here.' That's science.

This kind of thing? Not so much.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:23 PM   #37
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I read Wheat Belly, and tell anyone that will listen to me to read it too. Believe what you like, but I would not touch GMO food with a 10 foot pole. No wheat at all, I react to gluten.

Rarely ever eat corn, and then only organic. Tacos just aren't the same without some kind of tortilla, but as I said rarely. Once a month, maybe. Speaking of GMO, has anyone seen the documentary "King Corn"?

Don't eat much rice, but will even less now that they have found so much arsenic in it. Grains in general just don't sit well in my stomach.

Disneyfan07, any chance you are replacing your wheat with more corn and rice?

I don't buy processed food, you just don't know what's in it. Kind of a shocker to learn that Kashi products are full of GMO grains. We ate a lot of that stuff for years.

I've overcome two types of autoimmune disease and Diabetes II with a low carb, and now "paleo" diet. Started following the latter after a bout with cancer.

I do not eat grain fed animals, either, but I certainly eat meat!

The most recent discovery I've read, as in a couple of days ago, is the finding that humans were working together to hunt animals about a million years before they were believed to do so. And that coincided with larger brain development. Sort of an argument against being a vegetarian, I think.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancind View Post
I read Wheat Belly, and tell anyone that will listen to me to read it too. Believe what you like, but I would not touch GMO food with a 10 foot pole. No wheat at all, I react to gluten.

Rarely ever eat corn, and then only organic. Tacos just aren't the same without some kind of tortilla, but as I said rarely. Once a month, maybe. Speaking of GMO, has anyone seen the documentary "King Corn"?

Don't eat much rice, but will even less now that they have found so much arsenic in it. Grains in general just don't sit well in my stomach.

Disneyfan07, any chance you are replacing your wheat with more corn and rice?

I don't buy processed food, you just don't know what's in it. Kind of a shocker to learn that Kashi products are full of GMO grains. We ate a lot of that stuff for years.

I've overcome two types of autoimmune disease and Diabetes II with a low carb, and now "paleo" diet. Started following the latter after a bout with cancer.

I do not eat grain fed animals, either, but I certainly eat meat!

The most recent discovery I've read, as in a couple of days ago, is the finding that humans were working together to hunt animals about a million years before they were believed to do so. And that coincided with larger brain development. Sort of an argument against being a vegetarian, I think.
Yeah that was a bit of a shocker for me as well. Then I really looked at the boxes and it said natural, and didn't use the word organic. Kashi has switched a few product to non-GMO but it's nothing to write home about. http://www.kashi.com/nongmo
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:17 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dancind View Post
I read Wheat Belly, and tell anyone that will listen to me to read it too. Believe what you like, but I would not touch GMO food with a 10 foot pole. No wheat at all, I react to gluten.

Rarely ever eat corn, and then only organic. Tacos just aren't the same without some kind of tortilla, but as I said rarely. Once a month, maybe. Speaking of GMO, has anyone seen the documentary "King Corn"?

Don't eat much rice, but will even less now that they have found so much arsenic in it. Grains in general just don't sit well in my stomach.

Disneyfan07, any chance you are replacing your wheat with more corn and rice?

I don't buy processed food, you just don't know what's in it. Kind of a shocker to learn that Kashi products are full of GMO grains. We ate a lot of that stuff for years.

I've overcome two types of autoimmune disease and Diabetes II with a low carb, and now "paleo" diet. Started following the latter after a bout with cancer.

I do not eat grain fed animals, either, but I certainly eat meat!

The most recent discovery I've read, as in a couple of days ago, is the finding that humans were working together to hunt animals about a million years before they were believed to do so. And that coincided with larger brain development. Sort of an argument against being a vegetarian, I think.
Humans were designed to eat meat, but you find many vegetarians on here, they will try and try to tell you that carbs and grain are good. I don't buy it for one minute.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:41 PM   #40
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There is always a new fad for weight loss, that is why the weight loss industry makes billions, and the population gets fatter and fatter.

Everyone is genetically predisposed to having "problem areas." That area of your body where you gain weight easiest, and lose it the hardest.

The formula is simple. Burn off more calories than you take in. Period.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:48 PM   #41
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Humans were designed to eat meat, but you find many vegetarians on here, they will try and try to tell you that carbs and grain are good. I don't buy it for one minute.
I don't buy your theory for one minute either.


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Originally Posted by badblackpug View Post
There is always a new fad for weight loss, that is why the weight loss industry makes billions, and the population gets fatter and fatter.

Everyone is genetically predisposed to having "problem areas." That area of your body where you gain weight easiest, and lose it the hardest.

The formula is simple. Burn off more calories than you take in. Period.
Personally, I think it goes much deeper than that. Just because you burn off more than you take in doesn't mean you are healthy and it doesn't mean you are feeling as good as you could.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:16 PM   #42
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I don't buy your theory for one minute either.




Personally, I think it goes much deeper than that. Just because you burn off more than you take in doesn't mean you are healthy and it doesn't mean you are feeling as good as you could.
I never said a thing about feeling good or achieving optimal health. I said weight loss, period.

I you eat 3 oreos a day and run 5k a day, you will lose weight, you won't be healthy, but chances are very good you'll be skinny.

If you want to lose weight, burn off more calories than you take in.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:17 PM   #43
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Whether a person agrees or not I think asking questions is a good thing. We as consumers need to ask questions and we need to keep abreast of trends/happenings in the food industry.

FWIW, I think the doctor comes across as credible, and he presents what appears to be credible information to me. Now, someone else could read the book and think the opposite but at least they would have been exposed to the same information. I do have to say, before a person debunks the book, they should read it.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:36 PM   #44
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FWIW I usually don't agree with fox but I thought this article had some good points:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...t-white-trash/ (I hope that linked properly)

I find it a little extreme that people demonise carbs so harshly, ESP. Refined carbs, yet for most of human history and indeed the present in many areas they make up a massive proportion of the diet for many people. Often it is white rice and other refined products thanks to changes in production methods. Yet, these countries are not as obese, and aren't swimming in allergies or stomach issues as far as I'm aware... I think portion size and exercise, among other factors, is far more important tbh.

Not to mention, it varies from person to person. Try it out, maybe it works for you. Personally, I ate, and still do eat, a lot of refined carbs, including white rice, white bread and various other products, in large quantities on occasion. Stomach is solid as a rock, cholesterol well within norms (and on the low side even for a person of my age) and blood sugar stable. I agree you need to change your diet if you feel ill, chop and change till you work out what's best for you. But to demonise certain foods is misleading. YMMV, I'm not calling anyone out or anything, I believe in the freedom to choose how to eat and live your life.

I guess I'll need to see more proof of this before I am convinced.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:00 PM   #45
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I read Wheat Belly, and tell anyone that will listen to me to read it too. Believe what you like, but I would not touch GMO food with a 10 foot pole. No wheat at all, I react to gluten.
So you don't eat things with soy, vegetable oil, papayas, etc.? Certainly no corn products, including HFCS, things with sugar, as lots is derived from corn though a lot of sugar cane should be off your list too, etc.

Quote:
Rarely ever eat corn, and then only organic. Tacos just aren't the same without some kind of tortilla, but as I said rarely. Once a month, maybe. Speaking of GMO, has anyone seen the documentary "King Corn"?

Don't eat much rice, but will even less now that they have found so much arsenic in it. Grains in general just don't sit well in my stomach.

Disneyfan07, any chance you are replacing your wheat with more corn and rice?

I don't buy processed food, you just don't know what's in it. Kind of a shocker to learn that Kashi products are full of GMO grains. We ate a lot of that stuff for years.

I've overcome two types of autoimmune disease and Diabetes II with a low carb, and now "paleo" diet. Started following the latter after a bout with cancer.

I do not eat grain fed animals, either, but I certainly eat meat!

The most recent discovery I've read, as in a couple of days ago, is the finding that humans were working together to hunt animals about a million years before they were believed to do so. And that coincided with larger brain development. Sort of an argument against being a vegetarian, I think.
I don't understand how you get there.

A million years earlier you're not talking about humans, or close. You're talking about hominids like **** habilis or whatever was in that time period.

Hunting successfully for larger game producing better nutrition isn't an argument against vegetarianism any more than that organized agrarianism leading to better nutrition (which it certainly did), AND the rise of cultures and organized, settled societies is an argument against meat-eating.

What you're talking about is several steps back, evolution-wise.

If we found a previously unknown small tribe someplace with a very bare subsitance and airdropped cornflakes to them regularly, the children who grew up on the cornflakes would likely be taller and stronger and etc., than their parents. That's not an argument for living off cornflakes, it's about reliable nutrition.
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