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Old 09-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #151
mhsjax
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Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
Ok, if someone actually ate something for breakfast, how would they manage to do that without getting ANY protein, exactly?! Protein is in pretty much everything - :whisper even broccoli (which, just btw, has a ton of protein ).
Oh GOD, I love broccoli, but please not for breakfast. take my son, he eats dry cereal, can't have milk. Dry cheerios have 2 grams, my DS's cereal has 1 gram, although he does have milk with his. These 1 or 2 grams, really don't cut into the daily allowance. Plus it also depends on the activities you child is doing. AT 6 in the am, getting them to eat anything is a chore. Who can eat at 6 am. YUCK. And again, like the food pyramid or anything else, it is all in who or what you believe or read. I saw several things that said it had lots of protein, I also saw lots of reports that sadi it wasn't complete protein. AS you can guess vegetarian sites said it was fine, other sites said it wasn't complete. My point again, I believe NOTHING.

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Old 09-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #152
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We will ave to disagree, I disagree with being a vegetarian or vegan. However I also love my veggies and sorry but carrots and broccoli will not fill you up. I know I eat them. My kids can't do the sports they do and eat little veggies and be expected to perform. My child does eat a sandwich about 3 hours after school, but she then goes to 2 hours of very intense cheer practice and then she eats again. Her weight is fine and her Dr has no problem with it. My DS, eats non stop, he is extremely healthy, according to his blood work and is 5"10 and has a 31 inch waste. I don't have a problem with kids eating veggies, I am in the same boat that thinks parents give their kids way too much junk, but I don't think that 2 chicken nuggets will cut it for protein.

I do agree that the school did serve junk, it still serves junk. they are trying to clean it up, but they still serve the crap.
There are plenty of professional (including in the NHL, NFL, etc.) and elite-level athletes (there were plenty on display at the Olympics) who are vegetarians and even vegans. They seem to do just fine.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:34 PM   #153
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That is my point, Thank you for making it. It changes . And I did some looking up of my own. Baylor college of medicine had an article that said toddlers need 16 grams of protein a day, that CDC site you listed said kids 9-13 needed 34 grams a day. Last time I checked, 14 isn't half of 34. They probably aren't getting protein for breakfast, so this isn't that far off. They should get the other half for dinner or in snacks.
I have no idea what you are trying to say in regards to the bold part as you are comparing toddlers and kids 9-13

I don't recall where I said 1/2..I said ALMOST 1/2. So you are saying the school should feed children (calories, protein..etc) based on the assumption they have received no food at home and include what could be missing in their lunch? That a bit ridiculous especially when you consider that the children who don't get to eat at home would be on free/reduced and that includes breakfast..so they are eating breakfast and they are getting appropriate protein there too. If kids are skipping breakfast at home prior to the lunch the school can't base menus and protein and caloric intake on that assumption as it leads to too much food, too many calories..etc being eaten.

As for the changes..yes sometimes stuff does change..how crazy they would increase veggies and fruit suggested intakes and remove fats completely..how is that crazy or bad? Medical suggestions also change all the time..does that mean they are somehow useless or wrong? As we learn more we adapt and make the appropriate change.

A simple summary of the changes between my pyramid and my plate..the change to a plate was done to make it easier to see/understand visually..this thread illustrates that people clearly don't understand portion size so that's an easy way to represent it.
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To sum things up, they increased their recommendations for fruits, vegetables and protein, while decreasing their recommendations for grains and eliminated fats and sweets.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:37 PM   #154
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Also, not for nothing but the repeated thing about broccoli and carrots won't 'fill you up' and you know because you eat them - I mean, do you think the hundreds of millions of vegetarians and vegans in the world are just wandering around perpetually hungry?
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #155
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I have no idea what you are trying to say in regards to the bold part as you are comparing toddlers and kids 9-13

I don't recall where I said 1/2..I said ALMOST 1/2. So you are saying the school should feed children (calories, protein..etc) based on the assumption they have received no food at home and include what could be missing in their lunch? That a bit ridiculous especially when you consider that the children who don't get to eat at home would be on free/reduced and that includes breakfast..so they are eating breakfast and they are getting appropriate protein there too. If kids are skipping breakfast at home prior to the lunch the school can't base menus and protein and caloric intake on that assumption as it leads to too much food, too many calories..etc being eaten.

As for the changes..yes sometimes stuff does change..how crazy they would increase veggies and fruit suggested intakes and remove fats completely..how is that crazy or bad? Medical suggestions also change all the time..does that mean they are somehow useless or wrong? As we learn more we adapt and make the appropriate change.

A simple summary of the changes between my pyramid and my plate..the change to a plate was done to make it easier to see/understand visually..this thread illustrates that people clearly don't understand portion size so that's an easy way to represent it.
I was just listing the values for these ages, I think you know that. Almost half or half, really it doesn't matter. I won't change your mind and that is fine, Oh and your comment about kids that don't eat breakfast being the ones that would get free or reduced lunch so they would be getting breakfast, that is news to me. My kids don't always eat and lots of their friends don't either, they don't want to eat that early.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:54 PM   #156
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Also, not for nothing but the repeated thing about broccoli and carrots won't 'fill you up' and you know because you eat them - I mean, do you think the hundreds of millions of vegetarians and vegans in the world are just wandering around perpetually hungry?
No. Aare you saying that broccoli and carrots are all you guys eat?
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:55 PM   #157
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1. Don't vegetarians get protein from other foods besides meat? Do your menus not include beans, peanut butter,etc. to get the protein?

2. The remark about schools feeding students on the assumption that they aren't getting what they need at home. Well, I can tell you that that is the way child care centers are expected to feed their children. Childcare centers normally serve breakfast, lunch and snack each day. The regulations require that those 3 meals cover everything a child needs nutrionally in a day.

Many kids do not eat breakfast OR they are eating breakfast at school. So, in reality, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that lunch could include close to half of what is required for the day without them getting "too much".

And, btw, those nutrional standards are GUIDELINES. Every person under the sun does not have the same nutrional needs as every other human their age. It is very dependent on activity level, metabolism, etc. School lunches should not be at the minimum of those guidlines but at least in the middle and there should be options for those that have a need for more protein or whatever.

And cornflake, yes, vegetables will fill you up. But a kid that needs to stay satisfied from 11-after 4 or 5, will stay satisfied longer by having enough protein and I just don't think 2 chicken nuggets will do it.

And besides, if we want health lunch, how about a nice grilled chicken salad INSTEAD of chicken nuggets?
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:56 PM   #158
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I was just listing the values for these ages, I think you know that. Almost half or half, really it doesn't matter. I won't change your mind and that is fine, Oh and your comment about kids that don't eat breakfast being the ones that would get free or reduced lunch so they would be getting breakfast, that is news to me. My kids don't always eat and lots of their friends don't either, they don't want to eat that early.
DD doesn't eat breakfast either and no free lunch here. She doesn't eat it because she doesn't want anything that early. Sometimes she takes a cereal bar to have later.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #159
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I was just listing the values for these ages, I think you know that. Almost half or half, really it doesn't matter. I won't change your mind and that is fine, Oh and your comment about kids that don't eat breakfast being the ones that would get free or reduced lunch so they would be getting breakfast, that is news to me. My kids don't always eat and lots of their friends don't either, they don't want to eat that early.
No I don't know that as your intent was not remotely clear to me and still really isn't. What you posted was not horribly out of line with what I posted from the CDC..a few grams difference.

I wasn't talking about kids who choose not to eat and I didn't think you were either. If a child decides to skip a meal the school is not responsible for feeding everyone with the assumption that all have not eaten breakfast.

I thought you were referencing children who get most of their food from school....as in kids who can NOT eat at home and those kids would be on the free/reduced program (most likely..again this is lack of ability to eat at home..not choice to skip a meal) and would have the option of eating breakfast at school for free/reduced cost just like lunch.

I find it very odd to think that the school should feed kids lunch assuming that is their only meal of the day and pack it full of as much as they can...that's not necessary or healthy. If they choose to skip breakfast that is their choice and they have to deal with the ramifications of it (less calories per day, not enough protein or fruit/veggies for the day, feeling extremely hungry by lunch time, not being able to "fill up" on lunch because they skipped the previous meal...etc)..the school isn't responsible to feed the entire student body based on that possibility (just as they shouldn't feed all kids the amount of protein/calories that the star football player needs either).
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:11 PM   #160
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No I don't know that as your intent was not remotely clear to me and still really isn't. What you posted was not horribly out of line with what I posted from the CDC..a few grams difference.

I wasn't talking about kids who choose not to eat and I didn't think you were either. If a child decides to skip a meal the school is not responsible for feeding everyone with the assumption that all have not eaten breakfast. I thought you were referencing children who get most of their food from school....as in kids who can NOT eat at home and those kids would be on the free/reduced program and would have the option of eating breakfast at school. I find it very odd to think that the school should feed kids lunch assuming that is their only meal of the day and pack it full of as much as they can...that's not necessary or healthy. If they choose to skip breakfast that is their choice and they have to deal with the ramifications of it (less calories per day, not enough protein or fruit/veggies for the day...etc)..the school isn't responsible to feed the entire student body based on that possibility (just as they shouldn't feed all kids the amount of protein/calories that the star football player needs either).
You read way too much into what I say. I never said the school was responsible. I think you are way too obsessed with this protein thing. Oh and sorry but I didn't know that 4-5 chicken nuggets was packing it as full as they can. That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Ok gotta go, dinner time is approaching and I have to go to the store and get food, oh it won't be chicken nuggets, in case you were wondering.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #161
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You read way too much into what I say. I never said the school was responsible. I think you are way too obsessed with this protein thing. Oh and sorry but I didn't know that 4-5 chicken nuggets was packing it as full as they can. That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Ok gotta go, dinner time is approaching and I have to go to the store and get food, oh it won't be chicken nuggets, in case you were wondering.
4-5 chicken nuggets is just a piece of it. The claim is that kids are "going hungry" because the 6 year old is getting 2 nuggets instead of 5. They don't need 5 and that is giving them too many fats, calories and more protein than they need.

I don't see why I am going overboard on the protein considering the schools have to adhere to guidelines on amount served..thus 5 nuggets turned into 2 because 2 is keeping in line with actual needs and 5 was over the top.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:20 PM   #162
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4-5 chicken nuggets is just a piece of it. The claim is that kids are "going hungry" because the 6 year old is getting 2 nuggets instead of 5. They don't need 5 and that is giving them too many fats, calories and more protein than they need.

I don't see why I am going overboard on the protein considering the schools have to adhere to guidelines on amount served..thus 5 nuggets turned into 2 because 2 is keeping in line with actual needs and 5 was over the top.
And I disagree, How about they stop serving them all together, I bet we could agree on that.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:25 PM   #163
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No. Aare you saying that broccoli and carrots are all you guys eat?
No, but your post that said you "disagree with" vegetarianism and veganism seemed to imply both that those diets wouldn't "fill you up" and that it's not possible to be active or athletic even for a kid on one, both of which are not only untrue but strange to come up with, imo.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:33 PM   #164
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No, but your post that said you "disagree with" vegetarianism and veganism seemed to imply both that those diets wouldn't "fill you up" and that it's not possible to be active or athletic even for a kid on one, both of which are not only untrue but strange to come up with, imo.
That is ok. And I do disagree with them. If you don't know exactly what you are doing, you are making it very difficult to get all the nutrients you need and your body will suffer.

It is all in your prospective, I saw several articles written by animal rights, or animal cruelty or vegan/vegetarian slant that said broccoli was a great protein. I saw several nutrition sites that said is wasn't a complete protein at all. Vegetarians and those of us that aren't will NEVER agree. ok, I am out. really I am.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #165
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That is ok. And I do disagree with them. If you don't know exactly what you are doing, you are making it very difficult to get all the nutrients you need and your body will suffer.

It is all in your prospective, I saw several articles written by animal rights, or animal cruelty or vegan/vegetarian slant that said broccoli was a great protein. I saw several nutrition sites that said is wasn't a complete protein at all. Vegetarians and those of us that aren't will NEVER agree. ok, I am out. really I am.
Well no, there are plenty of people who aren't vegetarians or vegans who don't "disagree" with it or misunderstand it nutritionally. I have plenty of friends who are meat eaters. Some would like to go veg* but like meat too much, some have no desire to go veg*, none "disagree with" it.

Broccoli contains a lot of protein. It's therefore a good source of protein. It does not contain a complete aa profile, no. That doesn't matter. You don't need every protein to be 'complete,' you get different aas from different sources.

The nutrition profile of a food is more than something like whether it's a complete protein or how much protein or carbs it has. There's fibre, vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, etc.

No, it is not in any way difficult for vegetarians or vegans to get all the nutrients they need, nor do they have to pay special care (besides that often vegans take a B12 supplement or eat something with it in). It's not hard or complex or requiring of anything much.

I've never met a veg* who pays special attention; I've been one since I was a kid and I've known plenty like me and people who were from birth. It's just not a deal.

If a vegetarian or vegan only ate junk food, then yeah, they'd be nutrient deficient, same as if a meat eater does. Other than that, vegetarians and vegans tend to live longer, have better health profiles, lower incidence of many of the major diseases in this country and don't much think about their diets.

You're completely free to not be one but it's not what you seem to believe.
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