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Old 09-22-2012, 03:09 PM   #31
Colleen27
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Let it go. Do your best to help him catch up and be glad the punishment wasn't worse - at my son's school that would not only have been a week's suspension, it would also mean being excluded from extracurriculars for the remainder of the school year (everything - dances, sports teams, academic clubs, etc). Unfortunately we live in an age of zero tolerance (and zero common sense) and sometimes we just have to let the kids learn that the hard way.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mickey'snewestfan View Post
I am a school administrator and involved in making some of the difficult decisions about when to suspend.

We don't have a zero tolerance policy in place but in the situation the OP describes both kids would probably get the same consequence. Why? Because it sounds like both kids allowed the situation to escalate to a dangerous level. Neither kid reached out or took any steps to solve a problem that was going on for 2 months.

The OPs description of the incident contradicts itself. On one hand, the OP argues that the preceeding incidents weren't significant enough to warrant doing something. On the other hand after the fight suddenly they were so significant they should get him off?

Now if a situation occurs where two kids who have no history and one suddenly jumps the other? Yes, I'd feel differently.

Similarly, in a bullying situation where the victim has taken action, documented, asked for strategies, and then it escalates? Yes, I'd feel differently. But this is not what happened here

You misunderstood me. Yes there has been what you could call bullying going on for 2 months. I didn't feel it was serious enough to involve administration. If we all ran to administration over everything, they could never get their work done. I tried to speak with my son about coping with this kid about making the right choice. I also wasn't looking to get him off on a punishment. When I spoke to the principal I pointed out to him (as did my son) that there was a history with this kid and the principal's reply, "yeah he's a tough kid" leads me to believe he is aware of this kid.

I wouldn't want to make the decision and I don't know what the answer is to fighting in schools. But I think when a kid admits to throwing the first punch, the other kid mentions the bullying, there was a locker room of kids to ask what happened, I don't believe both kids should get the same punishment and my original complaint is I don't understand how 5 days of suspension fixes anything. There has to be a better punishment. This is how the cycle continues. Troubled kid fights, thrown out of school, does poor in school, anger builds, throw in some teasing for getting poor grades and the fighting starts again. That is my opinion. It could be wrong. I would just like to see a different punishment. I can't take him out of school for 5 days for a vacation, but the school can keep him out. I just think there has to be a better way.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey'snewestfan View Post
I am a school administrator and involved in making some of the difficult decisions about when to suspend.

We don't have a zero tolerance policy in place but in the situation the OP describes both kids would probably get the same consequence. Why? Because it sounds like both kids allowed the situation to escalate to a dangerous level. Neither kid reached out or took any steps to solve a problem that was going on for 2 months.

The OPs description of the incident contradicts itself. On one hand, the OP argues that the preceeding incidents weren't significant enough to warrant doing something. On the other hand after the fight suddenly they were so significant they should get him off?

Now if a situation occurs where two kids who have no history and one suddenly jumps the other? Yes, I'd feel differently.

Similarly, in a bullying situation where the victim has taken action, documented, asked for strategies, and then it escalates? Yes, I'd feel differently. But this is not what happened here
You poor person!! I apologize for everything my oldest son put you and all other administrators through when he was in high school!! He was the prankster that always got caught! I could never understand how he could come up with these elaborate schemes, and not figure out how to do them without being caught! He never fought or did alcohol/drugs, but let me tell you, I got at least a weekly call from the principal over some of his antics. But the school was very fair with his punishments (which included but not limited to cleaning bathrooms for a week after school). You think teachers have it hard, the administrators have to make the tough decisions.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:35 PM   #34
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There is always someone defending themself and always an instigator in a fight, it sounds like this kid punched first, and your ds punched back, and instead of breaking away, they continued to fight with eachother. I can understand why a 15 year old would continue instead of running away and getting help, but that doesn't matter, if they stay and fight then they should face the same consequences for fighting. I know you think 5 days is excessive, but that is the point, it is supposed to deter them from doing it again. By the time a kid reaches HS they should be educated in how it is in the "real world", and that includes facing consequences for our actions, even if we weren't the initiator.


I have always told my dses that they have every right to physically defend themself against anyone, but they will still have to face what punishment comes from doing so, they just won't get extra from me.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:48 PM   #35
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I guess I am going to flamed for this, but......

My children have been raised to know that they are never to start the fight, but they are well within their rights to defend themselves. In grade school, a similar situation happened to my son. When the school called, I made sure they knew that my son would NOT be serving any kind of detention as he did not start the fight in ANY way at all. (the other kid punched him because he was mad that my son's "team" won the game on the playground, so my son punched him back). Being it was private school, they fed me some line about how Jesus turned the other cheek. I told them when my son started walking on water, we could discuss turning the other cheek.

Anyway.... I wouldn't call the principal back, but I would call the local media and a lawyer. I am willing to bet the reason we have so many school shootings and such is that we have taken the victims' power away by not allowing them to fight back. Obviously, all the anti-bullying programs and groups are doing NO good. Bullies have all the power because we are training our children to allow it. Let's be realistic, tattling on the bully rarely ends the bullying. It makes it worse for the victim.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by WishingOnAStar View Post
I guess I am going to flamed for this, but......

My children have been raised to know that they are never to start the fight, but they are well within their rights to defend themselves. In grade school, a similar situation happened to my son. When the school called, I made sure they knew that my son would NOT be serving any kind of detention as he did not start the fight in ANY way at all. (the other kid punched him because he was mad that my son's "team" won the game on the playground, so my son punched him back). Being it was private school, they fed me some line about how Jesus turned the other cheek. I told them when my son started walking on water, we could discuss turning the other cheek.

Anyway.... I wouldn't call the principal back, but I would call the local media and a lawyer. I am willing to bet the reason we have so many school shootings and such is that we have taken the victims' power away by not allowing them to fight back. Obviously, all the anti-bullying programs and groups are doing NO good. Bullies have all the power because we are training our children to allow it. Let's be realistic, tattling on the bully rarely ends the bullying. It makes it worse for the victim.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:02 PM   #37
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Please don't use protecting my time as an excuse. Teaching prosocial behavior and problem solving IS my job. Preventing fights is a major part of why I get a salary. We set up all kinds of structures to make it easy for people to come to us with concerns before we are making the heartbreaking choice to suspend two kids who both clearly need to be in school.

The reality is that one reason we use suspension is because it changes parent behavior. I hope that next time this happens you do your job and reach out.

As far as the nurse, I agree 100% that the school had an obligation they didn't fill, to provide support even when he didn't ask. They failed him, in the same way you did.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:08 PM   #38
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Then you curl in a ball with your hands behind your head to minimize the damage. That's the only way you're not going to be suspended...things have changed. You either fight back, knowing you're going to be thrown out of school, or you protect yourself without force and let just the other kid be thrown out of school.
.
There is no way in heck I would want my child curled up in a ball on the floor while some kid beat the crap out of her- curled in a ball gives a great target for them to start kicking in in the kidneys etc! I wouldn't give a rats behind if she got suspended for fighting back as long as the other person threw the first punch and she fought back. I would be more upset if she DIDN'T fight back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WishingOnAStar View Post
I guess I am going to flamed for this, but......

My children have been raised to know that they are never to start the fight, but they are well within their rights to defend themselves. In grade school, a similar situation happened to my son. When the school called, I made sure they knew that my son would NOT be serving any kind of detention as he did not start the fight in ANY way at all. (the other kid punched him because he was mad that my son's "team" won the game on the playground, so my son punched him back). Being it was private school, they fed me some line about how Jesus turned the other cheek. I told them when my son started walking on water, we could discuss turning the other cheek.
.


In my district even if you are suspended for fighting or anything you get a home tutor the whole time you are out so you don't miss school. My friends son hated getting up early and going to school so the little monster would get himself suspended all the time so he would get a home tutor for 2 hours in the afternoon and not have to go to school!!
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #39
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Anyway.... I wouldn't call the principal back, but I would call the local media and a lawyer.
Oh yeah, that's the way teach your child right from wrong. You don't follow school policy and get punishment for it, call the local media and try to sue someone's pants off. That's a different type of bullying...trying to make the school scared of you, so they won't issue punishment to your child. The only thing your teaching your kid there is follow your own rules, and if they don't work out for you, sue someone or get the media involved.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:18 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Coconut36 View Post
You really think there wasn't anything that preceded the pummeling? There almost always is verbal exchanges prior to a fist flying..plenty of time to walk away or get assistance. Walking away or getting help isn't always the cool thing to do or what kids think about in the heat of the moment.
You know, I really have to disagree with this. The majority of fights I saw in high school (and by far the worst) didn't have an immediate lead up. It consisted of one student coming up behind the other and starting it that way. One of the worst I saw had one kid jumped while he was going to class by three others. Because a few months prior he had dated on of their ex-gfs. Should he have gotten up and calmly attempted to walk away? Because he never got the chance, and fought back. The three aggressors had very little injuries, but he had a broken collar bone, nose, and two ribs. He of course was expelled with the other three, even though all he did was defend himself. How is that fair?


OP, while I certainly do see why you're upset, I would be more upset with the nurse thing than anything else. I don't know how the fight went down, and unless there were cameras with audio as well, you probably don't know the 100% truth either, to be frank. If you do know for certain (by a video) that your son did nothing what so ever to fuel this, even if it was just a passing comment, than I would talk to the principal again about it, and see what can be done. Get as much work for him as you can, and have your son do it at home so that he's not as far behind as he would be without it. Otherwise, I would use this as a valuable lesson. Make sure your son knows that he was lucky so far, they could have kicked him off of the team, and in some places, expelled him.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:20 PM   #41
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I became defensive in my comments because I told a story, asked about following up with a nurse and instead the majority of responses was how I should be more concerned with him being a poor student, that he should take physical abuse and find a teacher, I should have contacted the school about the bullying in the first place. Just lots of judgements and people finding fault in my parent ability. I didn't ask those questions, just if I should be contact the principal because of lack of nurse.

It amazes me that people don't just answer the question being asked. I see it often on these boards. I'm so tired of people claiming how they have done it better than everyone else. No one is perfect. Parenting is hard and emotional. Just answer the question being asked. If you find fault in the story, keep opinions to yourself.
This is a discussion board. People will discuss whatever is written. It amazes me that so many people don't understand that. If you truly only wanted thoughts on the nurse question, you could have just posted "My high school freshman was injured at school and had to wait 2 hours before anyone looked at it. Should I contact the principal about it?" I think the responses to that question would have been more to your liking.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:21 PM   #42
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There is no way in heck I would want my child curled up in a ball on the floor while some kid beat the crap out of her- curled in a ball gives a great target for them to start kicking in in the kidneys etc! I wouldn't give a rats behind if she got suspended for fighting back as long as the other person threw the first punch and she fought back. I would be more upset if she DIDN'T fight back!
I really don't think it would have escalated to that, if he didn't fight back in the first place. Not even bullies want the reputation of kicking someone while they are defenseless. Sometimes no defense is the best defense.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceila View Post
This is a discussion board. People will discuss whatever is written. It amazes me that so many people don't understand that. If you truly only wanted thoughts on the nurse question, you could have just posted "My high school freshman was injured at school and had to wait 2 hours before anyone looked at it. Should I contact the principal about it?" I think the responses to that question would have been more to your liking.

You are right. That is exactly what I should have done
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey'snewestfan View Post
Please don't use protecting my time as an excuse. Teaching prosocial behavior and problem solving IS my job. Preventing fights is a major part of why I get a salary. We set up all kinds of structures to make it easy for people to come to us with concerns before we are making the heartbreaking choice to suspend two kids who both clearly need to be in school.

The reality is that one reason we use suspension is because it changes parent behavior. I hope that next time this happens you do your job and reach out.

As far as the nurse, I agree 100% that the school had an obligation they didn't fill, to provide support even when he didn't ask. They failed him, in the same way you did.

I failed my son? Really?
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #45
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This is a discussion board. People will discuss whatever is written. It amazes me that so many people don't understand that.
Yep, I know anything I write can be taken out of context, or not agreed with. You have to roll with the punches (pardon the pun) or not post anything at all. Hey, I've even actually admitted of being wrong before...now that hurt!
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