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Old 09-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #136
Sammie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRustyScupper View Post
1) How about that?
2) ALL hotel guests pay for the services.
. . . Disney Magical Express (DME), whether you use it or not
. . . Free Dining, even when you are there without it
3) Each of these are billed to the hotel cost center.
4) If you rent a hotel room or buy a DVC room, you are subsidizing others.
5) So, the hotel rack rate is raised to cover DME and Dinining.
6) Whether averaged all through the year, or "seasonal" increases.
7) Hasn't anyone noticed how weird some "seasons" dates have become?

NOTE: Cost center assignments are really things people do not know or
recognize. So, they do not realize when they buy something, what else
they are supporting or subsidizing. A quick example: When you go to an
early ADR and get into the park before opening, it is a restaurant CM
that admits you, not the gate CM. Early-ADR-entry is part of the eatery
cost center, not the park cost center. So, people eating throughout
the day pay for that person to let others in early. Yes, we must all pay
for maintenance and other things, but who gets the burden is sometimes
strange.
Thanks for the detailed explanation, did not realize they raise the rates to cover the cost of the dining. I knew you had to pay Rack Rate and could not use any other discounts, but did not realize the rate you are paying is actually more than if you booked room only at Rack Rate. Wow.

Not pleased with the changes in menu. The salad and pulled pork were two of my favorites. It will be interesting to see how this is received.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:38 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie View Post
Thanks for the detailed explanation, did not realize they raise the rates to cover the cost of the dining. I knew you had to pay Rack Rate and could not use any other discounts, but did not realize the rate you are paying is actually more than if you booked room only at Rack Rate. Wow.

Not pleased with the changes in menu. The salad and pulled pork were two of my favorites. It will be interesting to see how this is received.
Raised is the wrong word. Determined would be more accurate. Thinking the hotel rack rate is raised to cover the cost of the Dining Plan Free Promotion is the same as claiming the rack rates are raised to cover the cost of room discounts.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:33 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie

Thanks for the detailed explanation, did not realize they raise the rates to cover the cost of the dining. I knew you had to pay Rack Rate and could not use any other discounts, but did not realize the rate you are paying is actually more than if you booked room only at Rack Rate. Wow.

Not pleased with the changes in menu. The salad and pulled pork were two of my favorites. It will be interesting to see how this is received.
That is a misinterpretation. You are not paying more than a guest without the free dining would be paying if they were paying rack rate at the same time. What was meant was that the cost of all rooms at all times has been raised over time to cover various discounts. I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that, but you interpretation was not correct.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:10 PM   #139
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I guess I'm in the minority, but the new menu is appealing to me. I like that that not everything on the platter is BBQ (but then again, some might argue that the appeal of the old menu was that there were options in addition to the skillet that were not BBQ.) So I'd definitely be willing to give it a try; we've enjoyed LTT and Garden Grill (and been to 'Ohana twice though we were disappointed both times.) It sounds like this new platter at WCC is in the same genre as those 3 restaurants I mentioned, but I find it really interesting that the salad and beverages are not included in the price. I know they are included at LTT, but I can't remember about the other 2 (perhaps someone else can comment.) Obviously if you are on the dining plan, this is a moot point, but for those of us who aren't, I think it's kind of a rip off. I mean if you're going to offer a family style meal, include everything in the price.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:26 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by stitch34 View Post
Will certainly miss shouting for ketchup!!!!!

I did snag a late lunch ADR - looks like there is a pulled pork sandwich on there, and options for my whole family - shame though, lunch is pathetically boring there and no kechup or fun.
The ketchup call is coming back for lunch time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pugtails66 View Post
Can someone tell me what a grill cheese dipper is? I am trying to figure out if this menu will work for our family or if we need to cancel and try something different.

Thanks
It is a grilled cheese sandwich served on multigrain (white bread available upon request) with provolone cheese and served with tomato soup for dipping. Hope that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizney73 View Post
Does the menu change effect the Thanksgiving meal in any way? We have a noon reservation for our holiday meal.
It shouldn't there should still be a different holiday menu on Thanksgiving day.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:30 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by vicki_c View Post
That is a misinterpretation. You are not paying more than a guest without the free dining would be paying if they were paying rack rate at the same time. What was meant was that the cost of all rooms at all times has been raised over time to cover various discounts. I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that, but you interpretation was not correct.
Ok, I am totally confused now. So if the room rate is not raised, how is it not free? Now I understand that many do not consider it the best value, that is not my question.

I guess the changes to the menu will mean it will be easier to get an ADR now.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:03 AM   #142
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"Dining Plan Free" is a promotion. The Dining Plan is free to the guest, cost being covered by hotel accounting.
"30%* off" resort rates is a promotion. Thirty percent of the standard room price is free to the guest, covered by hotel accounting.

*or whatever percent
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:36 AM   #143
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Can my 19 year old order from the kid's menu at dinner? I think she would eat the cheeseburger.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:35 AM   #144
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So those that are on the regular dining plan get the "all you care to enjoy platter", and a drink (milkshake if they want) included. If we are paying OOP, you pay for the platter, pay for the drink and both scenarios would pay OOP for an appetizer?

Thanks!
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:01 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by herewego1 View Post
So those that are on the regular dining plan get the "all you care to enjoy platter", and a drink (milkshake if they want) included. If we are paying OOP, you pay for the platter, pay for the drink and both scenarios would pay OOP for an appetizer?

Thanks!
Yes, while those on the DxDP also get the appetizer included with their meal credit.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:07 AM   #146
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Yes, while those on the DxDP also get the appetizer included with their meal credit.
Thank you!
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:10 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Sammie View Post
Ok, I am totally confused now. So if the room rate is not raised, how is it not free? Now I understand that many do not consider it the best value, that is not my question.
The theory is that if there were no promos such as "free dining" or "some% off room rates", WDW could probably charge $XX per night for the room. WDW knows that people like promos, so they have set the rack room rate at $(XX + YYextra = ZZ) per night. We don't know what the extra amount is. Then if you and I each book a room at that resort but you get "free dining" with it and I don't, we are both paying the $ZZ rate per night. The rate for both of us is subsidizing the "free dining". It's a better deal for you than for me because you're actually getting to use the promo while I'm not, but at least in theory we're both paying more than we "should" have if there were never any promos offered. "Free dining" isn't "free" because nothing is ever truely free, and the customer always pays for it some way or another.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:31 AM   #148
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I have been following Free Dining isn't free discussion. Could they also make up some of the money by charging more for meals at Holidays & the resort rooms at Holiday pricing or the time of year seasonal pricing?

So someone is always paying for the free dining or discounted rooms at some point.

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Old 09-21-2012, 08:41 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie View Post
Ok, I am totally confused now. So if the room rate is not raised, how is it not free? Now I understand that many do not consider it the best value, that is not my question.
Because "rack rate" is not a static number. It is dynamic. The rate is most certainly raised for free dining, as very, very few (if any) people pay the promotional rack rate during non-promotion times. There is always a percentage discount or lower rate to be found somewhere.

During free dining, the rack rate that one needs to pay to take advantage of the promotion might be $550 per night. At all other times, the room might rent for $400 per night, undiscounted and maybe $330 after some discount. So your "free" dining is costing you $150-$220 per day. A good deal if you have a family of 5. Not such a good deal if you are a solo traveler or traveling as a couple. Free dining really starts to show its true colors at the Value and Moderate end of the scale, as the delta between the promotion versus non-promotion rack rates does not vary as greatly. If the promotion rack rate is $225 and the non-promotion rate is $160, you start to see greater savings. Of course, you still have to figure in the cost of upgrading to a higher level of DP if that is the way you choose to go.

All you have to do to see this in effect is go through a mock booking of identical accomodations during a time of free dining versus a time without free dining. You will quickly learn that your room charge will be less during the latter unless you select a particularly busy week where no room discounts are offered. Free dining isn't so much "free" as it is "pre-paid".
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:54 AM   #150
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Quote:
So if the room rate is not raised, how is it not free?
Here's another way to think about it.

Disney is going to get $X out of you for your vacation, provided you don't leave property for much of anything. The only question is *how* are they going to get that $X? One way is to charge you rack rate for the room, but include food. Another way is to give you a discount on the room, but charge you for food---either pay-as-you-go, or as part of a dining plan. Usually, both promotions are in effect at the same time. So, you can figure out how much you are paying for food; it's the rack rate minus the discount you are giving up to get "free" dining. Oh, and add in any supplement you pay if you are upgrading your plan from the "free" QSDDP to DDP/DxDP, or the "free" DDP to DxDP.

Throw in that *most* people likely spend less OOP just buying what they want when they want it vs. what the appropriate dining plan would have cost---the various plans are generally up-sells disguised as discounts---and "free" dining is more expensive than most people think.
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