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Old 09-25-2012, 07:13 PM   #31
bighoo93
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I would not have stayed at Disney. So they would have lost my family. Maybe the person I rented from would have used their points. Or maybe they could not have. Disney would be making a shortsighted mistake, IMO, if they were to cut off rentals, thinking they might somehow force people to pay to stay at one of their hotels. I think the idea of Disney inserting themselves into he process to take a piece of the action is much smarter thinking, and much more likely.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:10 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bighoo93 View Post
I would not have stayed at Disney. So they would have lost my family. Maybe the person I rented from would have used their points. Or maybe they could not have. Disney would be making a shortsighted mistake, IMO, if they were to cut off rentals, thinking they might somehow force people to pay to stay at one of their hotels. I think the idea of Disney inserting themselves into he process to take a piece of the action is much smarter thinking, and much more likely.
So you wouldn't have gone to WDW at all without this rental?
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:38 PM   #33
bighoo93
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So you wouldn't have gone to WDW at all without this rental?
Right, I don't think so. There is no way we could do a regular hotel room. I was doubtful about being able to make this trip, but then I stumbled on the DVC resort rentals when I did some research, and that was what made me realize we could really make this trip happen. Anyway, I certainly don't want to make this thread about me, but my experience in part explains why I don't think Disney would be wise to cut off villa renting.

I do think they would be wise to find some way to make direct DVC purchase more appealing, as compared to renting or buying resale. It is just a huge financial difference, and about all they are doing is letting you use your points in some other, less attractive additional ways. It would be a bad idea for them to keep scaling back on current resale benefits, IMO, or try to eliminate renting. But I think they should figure out benefits they can add to direct purchase that would make it more attractive. It doesn't have to be costly. Sometime a "status" benefit goes pretty far.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #34
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Renting isn't for everyone, it does take some work and a business sense. There can be legal issues and problems with the renter just like there can be owners who rent and don't know what they are doing.

I expect that we will see a rule change about renting in the future.

Bill
Why do you say that? Is it a supposition on your part, hearsay, or did you hear this from a cast member. I've been renting my points out for years. I've had no issues with Disney in the past and I don't anticipate any in the future.

It's those folks who rent their points out on eBay consistently and routinely and who rent out multi thousands of points per year. Those are the people Disney and Disney Vacation Club targeted in that ultimatum. Not a guy who is renting out 200 points per year!
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:50 AM   #35
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I hope Disney gets it's act together and enforces the rules on commercial renting. Sorry but there is no way the brokers are not commercial renters


It is in Disney's best interest to cut down on renting. They make nothing from it. And if you decide to go into renting remember they hold ALL the power and will change the rules to protect them not you
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:38 AM   #36
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I hope Disney gets it's act together and enforces the rules on commercial renting. Sorry but there is no way the brokers are not commercial renters


It is in Disney's best interest to cut down on renting. They make nothing from it. And if you decide to go into renting remember they hold ALL the power and will change the rules to protect them not you
The problem for Disney is that the POS specifically allows renting as well as having an exclusion for commercial renting with a TBA definition. Thus, IMO, they do not hold all the cards. They could act at heh 600# gorilla if they wanted but there's a good chance they'd lose any challenge for a member who's below the current definition they've listed. Disney doesn't like to be in a position to lose such challenges. Both legally and practically, "profit" won't be a determining factor even though some would like to think it would. Also, while the POS discusses that one should not buy with expectations to rent and should buy for personal use, this clause is related to expectation, not exclusion and is there because FL law requires it. The history behind it is that in times past timeshare sales people would tout buying to rent or resell for profit, they are not allowed to do so in FL legally.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by icydog View Post
Why do you say that? Is it a supposition on your part, hearsay, or did you hear this from a cast member. I've been renting my points out for years. I've had no issues with Disney in the past and I don't anticipate any in the future.

It's those folks who rent their points out on eBay consistently and routinely and who rent out multi thousands of points per year. Those are the people Disney and Disney Vacation Club targeted in that ultimatum. Not a guy who is renting out 200 points per year!
Please see post #17.

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Old 09-27-2012, 09:10 AM   #38
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The problem for Disney is that the POS specifically allows renting as well as having an exclusion for commercial renting with a TBA definition. Thus, IMO, they do not hold all the cards. They could act at heh 600# gorilla if they wanted but there's a good chance they'd lose any challenge for a member who's below the current definition they've listed. Disney doesn't like to be in a position to lose such challenges. Both legally and practically, "profit" won't be a determining factor even though some would like to think it would. Also, while the POS discusses that one should not buy with expectations to rent and should buy for personal use, this clause is related to expectation, not exclusion and is there because FL law requires it. The history behind it is that in times past timeshare sales people would tout buying to rent or resell for profit, they are not allowed to do so in FL legally.
Don't count on it. Next step. Define commercial. And it will be VERY narrow. And have Reedy Creek pass new local regulations. That is legal and they can say "only x is allowed". Happens all over Florida. My father's home for example cannot be rented for anything less then 6 months

They are already stalking the brokers.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:24 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
Please see post #17.

Bill
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=17

Just because you've said it twice doesn't mean it's true. The fact is I have been renting points for 15 years now with no ramifications. I don't think Disney is going to go back on their original prospectus. They've got bigger problems than low point renters. If they did have a problem companies like David's would be out of business.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:43 AM   #40
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http://www.disboards.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=17

Just because you've said it twice doesn't mean it's true. The fact is I have been renting points for 15 years now with no ramifications. I don't think Disney is going to go back on their original prospectus. They've got bigger problems than low point renters. If they did have a problem companies like David's would be out of business.
My source tells me it is a matter of time for companies like David's. He "claims" legal is working on it. No idea if he actually knows what he is talking about
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:01 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by OrangeCountyCommuter View Post
My source tells me it is a matter of time for companies like David's. He "claims" legal is working on it. No idea if he actually knows what he is talking about
Technically aren't brokers like Daddio not renting out points, they are bring owners with points and renters who want points together and it is the owners that are the renting out their points? Most of those owners are probably only doing the occasional rental when they want to get rid of their points for some reason, so they probably aren't doing a lot of rentals each year anyway.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:05 AM   #42
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I expect that Disney will modify their definition of commercial renting. They already changed the rules about Associates on our membership accounts due to renting and I am told that they are continuing to look at the renting issue. Apparently they feel that if renting went away, it would increase their cash reservations and DVC sales.

Bill
Personally I think that most buyers believe that it is a plus to be allowed to rent out their points if they have to, so I don't see that removing the ability to rent will increase DVC sales, if anything it would cause some people to decide not to purchase.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:33 AM   #43
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And have Reedy Creek pass new local regulations.
And, as a reminder, Reedy Creek is a governmental entity that just happens to be owned lock, stock, and barrel by the company.

If it were me, and I wanted to curtail the brokers, I'd narrow the definition of "commercial" to include "advertising broadly, directly or through an agent." But, I'm not a lawyer, so what do I know?

What I *do* know is that while Disney does not hold all the cards, and does tend to tread lightly in these sorts of situations, they also almost certainly take a dim view of the increasing rental market, and control quite a bit of the appropriate legal apparatus that backs the system. Some of that they can't (easily) change, but some of it they can. Given enough time and the right motivation, they could well come up with something. They won't be able to eliminate renting completely, but they can probably make life more difficult for the larger competitors.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:03 PM   #44
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I have a (probably) silly question...

*IF* Disney decided to crack down on rentals, how would they authenticate a reservation as a "rental"? How hard would it be to say, "This reservation is for my cousin's family"? The money would change hands under the table, just like it does now for point transfers, right? What about those who own a large number of points and use them to reserve "bonus" vacations for their employees? I believe they probably have a large number of reservations per year made under names that are not on the deed. There just seems to be so many legitimate uses of points outside of the members' own use that it would be very difficult to put any sort of restrictions on a reservation for a non-member. I understand that there is currently a bit of an "honor system" where members are required to tell MS if the reservation is for a renter, but it is up to the member if they want to obey that rule.

As others have touched on, I think that renting has a benefit for Disney in that it allows those on the fence about purchasing an affordable way to test the product. We stayed at OKW in 2001 and paid full rack-rate for a 2BR because we didn't know any better. I did research into DVC and found out about renting points. In 2008, we rented points to stay in a 1BR at OKW which reaffirmed our decision to never stay in a regular hotel room again. While our rental transaction was easy and effortless, I still wanted to have the control that comes with ownership. I rented points for a stay at AKV since that is the resort we were most interested in and we ended up purchasing an AKV contract. I paid just over $1K for 6 nights in a savanna-view studio....Disney charged $440 + tax per night for that same room. There is NO way we would have stayed at AKV if we had to pay cash via CRO. By renting the points, we were able to affordably test the product that we ultimately bought so it was a win-win situation.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:12 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by kristenrice View Post
I have a (probably) silly question...

*IF* Disney decided to crack down on rentals, how would they authenticate a reservation as a "rental"? How hard would it be to say, "This reservation is for my cousin's family"? The money would change hands under the table, just like it does now for point transfers, right? What about those who own a large number of points and use them to reserve "bonus" vacations for their employees? I believe they probably have a large number of reservations per year made under names that are not on the deed. There just seems to be so many legitimate uses of points outside of the members' own use that it would be very difficult to put any sort of restrictions on a reservation for a non-member. I understand that there is currently a bit of an "honor system" where members are required to tell MS if the reservation is for a renter, but it is up to the member if they want to obey that rule.

As others have touched on, I think that renting has a benefit for Disney in that it allows those on the fence about purchasing an affordable way to test the product. We stayed at OKW in 2001 and paid full rack-rate for a 2BR because we didn't know any better. I did research into DVC and found out about renting points. In 2008, we rented points to stay in a 1BR at OKW which reaffirmed our decision to never stay in a regular hotel room again. While our rental transaction was easy and effortless, I still wanted to have the control that comes with ownership. I rented points for a stay at AKV since that is the resort we were most interested in and we ended up purchasing an AKV contract. I paid just over $1K for 6 nights in a savanna-view studio....Disney charged $440 + tax per night for that same room. There is NO way we would have stayed at AKV if we had to pay cash via CRO. By renting the points, we were able to affordably test the product that we ultimately bought so it was a win-win situation.
I would bet that there are a fair number of people that rent to "test" the product and then end up buying.
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