DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 09-23-2012, 10:43 PM   #16
luckyman_apd
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Originally Posted by blueferral View Post
Brian,
there have been a few sales that have gone through at 60 per point for AKL. Not many and usually with more than the 100 points I'm looking for. So, if I jump on it around 65.00 per point is more reasonable.

As to the initial investment. Would I be investing that in something else. Probably not. I'd be dropping it on a Disney cruise or an Adventures by Disney. So, a long term vacation possibility or a one time adventure or two cruises.

The dues I am not paying will pay down the capital investment in 4 to 5 years. I think that rentals in the $10 per point will pay that off even with increases in dues. After that its a wash. I'll either use them or rent them because my personal expenses should be less.
I'm sure it sounds all well and good and not going to dispute numbers with you. But ask yourself two questions. First, do you have or know someone who is going to be renting from you on a regular (yearly) basis? If not, then are you prepared to do the legwork and take the risk of someone causing damage to the room while renting from you? Second, what if in 3 years Disney does identify you as a commercial renter? What then?

Just my 2 cents, but I think there are safer investments that involve some risk to get a better return. It's a big gamble to "invest" in a prepaid vacation system.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by luckyman_apd View Post
I'm sure it sounds all well and good and not going to dispute numbers with you. But ask yourself two questions. First, do you have or know someone who is going to be renting from you on a regular (yearly) basis? If not, then are you prepared to do the legwork and take the risk of someone causing damage to the room while renting from you? Second, what if in 3 years Disney does identify you as a commercial renter? What then?

Just my 2 cents, but I think there are safer investments that involve some risk to get a better return. It's a big gamble to "invest" in a prepaid vacation system.
I expect that Disney will modify their definition of commercial renting. They already changed the rules about Associates on our membership accounts due to renting and I am told that they are continuing to look at the renting issue. Apparently they feel that if renting went away, it would increase their cash reservations and DVC sales.

Bill
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:01 PM   #18
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In that case...

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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
I expect that Disney will modify their definition of commercial renting. They already changed the rules about Associates on our membership accounts due to renting and I am told that they are continuing to look at the renting issue. Apparently they feel that if renting went away, it would increase their cash reservations and DVC sales.

Bill
If they truly believe renting is cutting into their cash reservations and sales, then here is an idea for them. How about they pay $7 per point to DVC members wishing to rent their points. DVC could then use these points to bolster their cash reservations and (theoretically of course) prompt more sales of new properties.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #19
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If they truly believe renting is cutting into their cash reservations and sales, then here is an idea for them. How about they pay $7 per point to DVC members wishing to rent their points. DVC could then use these points to bolster their cash reservations and (theoretically of course) prompt more sales of new properties.
Why pay anything to members when they have their own inventory that they can use?

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Old 09-24-2012, 12:11 PM   #20
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Why pay anything to members when they have their own inventory that they can use?

Bill
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:44 PM   #21
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Although I have never rented out my points (we are actually always borrowing from future years) it is nice to know that the option exists should the need arise in the future.

The ability to rent has probably kept some people from having to sell during these hard economic times.

I know that there are some people that abuse the system but it would be a shame if Disney did away with the ability to rent all together.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #22
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Although I have never rented out my points (we are actually always borrowing from future years) it is nice to know that the option exists should the need arise in the future.

The ability to rent has probably kept some people from having to sell during these hard economic times.

I know that there are some people that abuse the system but it would be a shame if Disney did away with the ability to rent all together.
Disney doesn't care if owners have to sell because someone else has to buy. The reality is that renting doesn't make Disney any money and they are a business.

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Old 09-24-2012, 01:19 PM   #23
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Disney doesn't care if owners have to sell because someone else has to buy. The reality is that renting doesn't make Disney any money and they are a business.

Bill
Disney doesn't HAVE to do anything, but if I do in fact OWN points in the system, isn't it my right to allow a guest to use it? Since the $ transactions are on the side, unless someone is consistently making reservations and not using it themselves, can they assume renting.

I am confused though as to how they can increase their cash reservations if renting was cut down. I get that rooms would be available, but I thought that cash inventory was completely separate from points inventory. I have seen no availability online, but reserving a night on cash was possible. What is to prevent Disney at the 6 month mark from selling all the rooms on cash and leaving none for points reservations?

I think if Disney was really wanting to end all rentals, and make a profit from it, they could set up their own rental system for members where they take a cut. Kind of like MLB and NFL do with event ticket resales. They were cracking down on Stub hub until stub hub became an official sponsor. Some teams even have ticket resales for season ticket holders on their sites where the team gets a cut. I mean, they could take David's rentals right out from under him if they so desired. It would be a lot easier for them do what he does, and they could probably swing a bigger profit than him.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by luckyman_apd View Post
....I am confused though as to how they can increase their cash reservations if renting was cut down. I get that rooms would be available, but I thought that cash inventory was completely separate from points inventory. ....
Rooms that are not reserved at 60 days out are turned over to Disney Reservation Center to sell for cash. This is returned to DVC (less a fee). So if a member doesn't reserve the villa and it goes unreserved, it can be sold for cash.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:51 PM   #25
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Doesn't appear anyone has actually answered your question (but there are several opinions on worth of the idea, LOL).

Reports from a few years ago, suggest that 20 or more reservations per year triggers some type of "audit" to determine if commercial renting is going on. I recall several members did receive letters to this point.

Truthfully, Disney has not defined "commercial" in any of the Position Offering Statements (POS). Many of us suspect that was not an omission. They certainly can make (and have made) rule changes that negatively impacted the ease of renting. No one here knows what Disney may do in the future regarding renting. The online booking system has made it easier to check availability.

My personal opinion is that renting to cover dues is risky and more of a hassle than I care to take on. Others have an opposite opinion.

Note that many who post here oppose renting of any kind. However, it is expressly allowed by the POS, as long as Disney doesn't think it is being done "commercially".
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:14 PM   #26
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I don't think that Disney will eliminate all renting but they may change the rules to decrease the number of rentals. Guests of owners are currently entitled to certain DVC perks while renters are not.

A couple of years ago I was told by a Disney employee that "you don't take money from the mouse".

Disney changed the resale benefits to increase direct sales, I can see them changing the renting policy to do the same.

I would hate to have someone buy points to use for renting and later have the rules change causing them to sell. A mass sell off would cause the resale prices to drop and ultimately hurt everyone.

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Old 09-24-2012, 08:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
I don't think that Disney will eliminate all renting but they may change the rules to decrease the number of rentals. Guests of owners are currently entitled to certain DVC perks while renters are not.

A couple of years ago I was told by a Disney employee that "you don't take money from the mouse".

Disney changed the resale benefits to increase direct sales, I can see them changing the renting policy to do the same.

I would hate to have someone buy points to use for renting and later have the rules change causing them to sell. A mass sell off would cause the resale prices to drop and ultimately hurt everyone.

Bill
It would be very easy to identify KTTW of guests at a DVC resort on points that does not include the member. If the member is on the reservation, you get one notation. If the member isn't on the reservation, you get another. Kind of like the blue KTTW and the gold KTTW.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:36 PM   #28
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Rooms that are not reserved at 60 days out are turned over to Disney Reservation Center to sell for cash. This is returned to DVC (less a fee). So if a member doesn't reserve the villa and it goes unreserved, it can be sold for cash.
Thank you. That makes sense to me. I guess that is why SSR is usually the resort you see on the internet ads at 30% all the time, because there seems to availability there on short notice most of the time. What is the typical availability of the other resorts on average around the 60 day mark?

I am not opposed to renting/renters. I was introduced to DVC by renting. I never would have stopped at those kiosks beforehand. I think renting is a very good option for those that tire of disney trips and want to take time off, have some down financial times, or just people who want to share the magic. I think commercial renting does have a slippery slope. I have heard the phrase "you don't take money from the mouse" before, and I've also heard CM say they work for the mouse, and they don't want to vacation with him! HA HA
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:47 PM   #29
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Who says Disney doesn’t get any money from DVC renters? They might not directly get the rental money, but so what? My family just returned from a rented visit at Old Key West. When I checked out, I had north of $1100 on my tab from spending around Disney property. That didn’t include a week’s worth of park tickets for 3 adults and 2 children (plus one infant who got in free). I spent a few bucks on my credit card, too. My family is too large for a regular hotel room, and could not afford the vacation at Disney’s rack rates. In other words, we were only there because DVC renting was available. And on account of that, Disney got another few thousand dollars from my family (I haven’t tallied it all up, but that is ballpark). Technically, we could have stayed off-site, and perhaps some hotels would be large enough, but staying on Disney property is one of the things that we loved and will be bringing us back. And of course, Disney wouldn't have gotten anything directly from me staying offsite either, nor would I have encountered the lovely young lady at the DVC desk in the lobby.

And speaking of that, we were so impressed and delighted with our stay at OKW, that we went to the DVC open house. And we liked that so much, that we are in the process of buying our own piece of the mouse. Yes, it is on resale, so you could say that Disney is not getting any money directly from that purchase. But again, they are building a lifetime revenue stream of family visits that we would never have made if we could not stay at DVC villas. Disney is getting all that money. And even when my DVC contract runs out in 42 years, I have four children who are being indoctrinated in the mouse, who may well in turn continue the legacy with their families (a pretty explicit intention of Disney’s DVC program). And by the way, I would not have bought into DVC if I didn’t have the opportunity to rent out points in cases where my family is unable to take a trip for some reason. I’m not doing this to start a business or as a retirement investment. But I do run the numbers on any purchase as substantial as this, and the ability to recoup some money in years where points would otherwise go unused was an essential part of my decision.

And none of this happens if we weren’t able to rent a DVC villa. I seriously doubt I am alone. So sure, could Disney try to be more heavy-handed and police DVC rentals? I guess they could. But it would be mighty short-sighted. I think stamping out truly commercial renting entities that have no intention of staying at Disney and are impacting the market makes sense. At a minimum, reserving the right to do so if the need should arise. But to prevent someone from renting out their 250 points every few years, to someone who can afford to drop a few thousand dollars at Disney gets to go, rather than having empty rooms? Doesn’t make much business sense to me.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:27 PM   #30
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Who says Disney doesn’t get any money from DVC renters? They might not directly get the rental money, but so what? My family just returned from a rented visit at Old Key West. When I checked out, I had north of $1100 on my tab from spending around Disney property.
The issue is that the points that you used with your rental have to be used by the owner or a renter or they are forfeited. If Disney shut off all rentals some how, and I don't think that they would, someone would still be spending money at Disney for food, tickets and Disney extras.

If you didn't rent, where would you stay?

Bill
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