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Old 09-15-2012, 12:37 PM   #16
bankgirl05
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Originally Posted by mjkacmom View Post
Wouldn't she be off of most of that week for teachers convention? I don't know - I would guess she probably feels a little separate from the rest of the family (siblings have a different father, and are much younger, she moved in with dad). This might be the last time she even vacations with your family (is she planning on going to college, where the breaks are different times?).

We have always tried to provide her a secure place in our family. She moved in with Dad because he let her get away with more than I would etc. She doesn't talk about college any more, mostly due to the fact that her boyfriend got sent away to live with his dad, to PR and now she just wants to go there after she graduates.
Knock on wood, dd16 has yet to get into any trouble, but both DH and I did at this age (DH was the one arrested for pot possession!). Do you travel, as a family, anywhere else but WDW?
We have done lots of other combo trips, but we mostly just travel to FL (my family lives there) We have done trips to Tampa to visit her Great Aunt on her dad's side (whom I adore) Sanibel Island and Ft Myers area etc. For her 12th b-day I sent her to Seaworld Camp, and then we did bush garden, visited family etc. For her sweet 16th I took her and her BFF to Universal (her choice) for 5 days, and all of our WDW trips have always had a DD17 based itinerary ie: which rides she wanted, dining options, seperate shopping time for just the 2 of us
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Originally Posted by Miffy View Post
If your DD really doesn't want to go to WDW, then she won't feel left out if you go without her--she'll feel relieved. However, I wonder if she's just saying that she doesn't want to go to WDW again or if she means it. Only she knows that for sure, but I'm guessing you probably have a good idea of whether she truly means it or not. If she does mean it, then go without her. If she's just testing you, then have a heart-to-heart with her, let her know that she's part of the family and that you love her, even if things are difficult for her and with her relationship with you right now.

BTW--as if you don't know this already--your ex is doing you no favors by disagreeing with your policies regarding your daughter. And he's not doing your daughter any favors, either. Yes, SIGH, I am accutely aware of this, and hopefully he is becoming aware of it too, I just fear that in 2 months she will just batt her eyes, and he'll be right back to allowing her to do whatever she wants.
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Originally Posted by Woodmnky View Post
If the vacation may need to be postponed for cancelled because of something other than your DD's total irresponsibility and lack of respect for the law I would say that the appropriate thing to do is to cancel until the whole family can attend. However, waiting until DD can go only reinforces the idea that her actions do not have consequences. Your DD will soon be held just as accountable for her actions as you or I would be and it may well be time that she learned this. Also, I would consider the message that it will send to the younger children in the home if you decide to rearrange all of your plans in order to accommodate DD.Fortunately my younger kids have NO CLUE that thier big sister, whom the love to no end, is such a bonehead.
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Originally Posted by clm10308 View Post
It is so much harder to deal with teenagers when there are two different households evolved. I have a very close friend who was in the same situation until her daughter turned 18.

At this point, I would say to schedule the vacation at a time that your DD can currently attend. If the court or school makes it so that she is unable to attend, then that is the consequence of her actions. However, you might want to make it a more low key vacation rather than a Disney trip since that might cause more hard feelings. I won't make it a low key vacation to avoid hurt feelings for the simple fact that: This is what we want to do and plan/save for at least a year in advance usually, and she had absolutely no regard or respect for our/my feelings
Depending on your school district, this offense may get your DD assigned to an alternative school and not be allowed back to her gulag school for the rest of the year. You may want to do some investigating on this so it does not come as a complete surprise. She was only suspended for 5 days, she is already back in school.

Are you counting down the days until she turns 18? Yes, there are other issues that come up then, but my friend is so happy not to have to deal with her ex directly any longer.Not really counting, because knowing right now that my child has no FORESIGHT for her future, other than to follow an obviously troubled boy to PR, does not want that day to come any faster, in fact it makes me want to lock her in her room for a few more years...
Thank You ALL for your points of view and support. It does make it easier knowing that I am not completely wrong for wanting to still do this for the rest of my family. It has actually started pulling me out of the "sad" mode I was in and into a MAD mode, which is where I think I need to be, she definately is in need of a little more toughness, hopefully it can just be a united front. She made the choice (and it was a choice, not a mistake) so now she has to deal with the consequences.

PS...SO do you think it's too or too soon for me to try and be excited about this trip for my DH's sake??? We are planning on surprising the kids, but DH is sooo excited that we have MNSSHP AND MVMCP tickets. he wants me to put up a countdown chain!!! Man it really was a long, hard summer for him if he is this excited about our trip. I just don't want to look insensitive to what else is going on. (not that we have any friends or family here on Disboards)

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Old 09-15-2012, 02:41 PM   #17
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As a behavior interventionist, I have to say - natural consequences are the best consequences. Missing the trip is a result of HER choices - not yours.
Your original plans included her.

Look at it this way - would you postpone Christmas morning for your younger kids if she made the choice not to come home the night before? Or was arrested due to drugs? Extreme example, I know, just trying to put it in perspective.....

Plus, rearranging your lives/plans teaches her that the world revolves around her and no matter her choices, mom will swoop in and make it all better. Not a good lesson for her to learn...

Just my two cents... I'm sure many will disagree...
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Old 09-15-2012, 03:02 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by chellt View Post
As a behavior interventionist, I have to say - natural consequences are the best consequences. Missing the trip is a result of HER choices - not yours.
Your original plans included her.

Look at it this way - would you postpone Christmas morning for your younger kids if she made the choice not to come home the night before? Or was arrested due to drugs? Extreme example, I know, just trying to put it in perspective.....

Plus, rearranging your lives/plans teaches her that the world revolves around her and no matter her choices, mom will swoop in and make it all better. Not a good lesson for her to learn...

Just my two cents... I'm sure many will disagree...
Thank YOU!!!! I kinda always have "swooped in" to fix the problems in the past, but at this point I realize that she needs to grow up. The only thing I can do is say I love you, and I will HELP you fix it, but you are going to have to do the work yourself. (meaning I will drive her to appts, go to counselling etc, but I am not asking for favors,I know several cops that told me they can talk to judges etc, on her behalf, or even opening my mouth in court to say she doesn't deserve such and such, let the chips fall where they may and she can pick them up or not)
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Old 09-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by chellt View Post
As a behavior interventionist, I have to say - natural consequences are the best consequences. Missing the trip is a result of HER choices - not yours.
Your original plans included her.

Look at it this way - would you postpone Christmas morning for your younger kids if she made the choice not to come home the night before? Or was arrested due to drugs? Extreme example, I know, just trying to put it in perspective.....

Plus, rearranging your lives/plans teaches her that the world revolves around her and no matter her choices, mom will swoop in and make it all better. Not a good lesson for her to learn...

Just my two cents... I'm sure many will disagree...
I won't disagree..so there's one LOL
It totally teaches them the world revolves around them because, uh, that's what's happening!
I know quite a few addicts and this seems to be a common thing in their lives too
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Old 09-15-2012, 05:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by chellt View Post
As a behavior interventionist, I have to say - natural consequences are the best consequences. Missing the trip is a result of HER choices - not yours.
Your original plans included her.

Look at it this way - would you postpone Christmas morning for your younger kids if she made the choice not to come home the night before? Or was arrested due to drugs? Extreme example, I know, just trying to put it in perspective.....

Plus, rearranging your lives/plans teaches her that the world revolves around her and no matter her choices, mom will swoop in and make it all better. Not a good lesson for her to learn...

Just my two cents... I'm sure many will disagree...
I agree completely. My sister is the same age as me and made our whole life a living hell when we were in high school. Arrested multiple times, didn't come home etc. I couldn't wait to move out of the house.

My parents never let her actions dictate everything for the rest of us though.
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Old 09-15-2012, 05:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by chellt View Post
As a behavior interventionist, I have to say - natural consequences are the best consequences. Missing the trip is a result of HER choices - not yours.
Your original plans included her.

Look at it this way - would you postpone Christmas morning for your younger kids if she made the choice not to come home the night before? Or was arrested due to drugs? Extreme example, I know, just trying to put it in perspective.....

Plus, rearranging your lives/plans teaches her that the world revolves around her and no matter her choices, mom will swoop in and make it all better. Not a good lesson for her to learn...

Just my two cents... I'm sure many will disagree...
Excellent advice!

My concern would be that she has adequate supervision and will not be having a party or such in my home while I am away.

She has issues that she needs to handle. At my school, students are suspended for multiple days for drug possession, so she is lucky she isn't with us. She would also have mandatory drug counselling as well.

Best of luck. I hang with teens all day long, and I can tell you that most of them are a uniques species all to themselves.

Have a wonderful trip! Tiger

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Old 09-15-2012, 06:23 PM   #22
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My heart goes out to you. I have young children but I know I put my mom through a lot as a teenager nothing that would land me in jail but I did walk over her. Mom would never leave me at home while everyone else went on a cruise. Just who she was! Our first cruise was when I was 24, I learned a lot going away to college. I have a older brother that doesn't learn from his mistakes because my mom is always there to catch him. Sometimes you just need to let your kids FALL and learn from their mistakes.
It took me moving away to college before I respected my mom the way she should be respected and she is the most caring person I know.
My brother 35 still walks over her, he hasn't learned or hasn't fallen on his butt yet and he needs to.

I think you have a little time where if your daughter wants to go then she has to show you she has learned from her mistakes. But after talking win her and she doesn't even want to try then don't feel guilty leaving her behind. Tough love is needed, and your other two children can't suffer because their older sister. Not fair to them and you have to protect them as well.

If she came wih you on cruise would she try to make the trip a good trip or cause more problems???

It's a hard hard decision, but you also can't let her keep walking over you, best of luck hopefully this is a phase and she will grow up. I know it's heart breaking!
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:18 PM   #23
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It would break my heart, but I would leave her at home. Certainly not fair to the rest of the family to not go and even though your kids are young, they would soon realize what is happening and you have to send the right message. I would remind her that you love her dearly, and you will miss her terribly on the trip but she made the bad choice that resulted in her not being able to go. I would tell her, that if she can get her act together, and finish the year with out issue, you will plan another trip (either the whole family, or just you and her) when she can go. Only issue is to be sure that her dad will handle things well while you are gone. Prayers for all of you.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:27 AM   #24
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Hello Bankgirl05,

You certainly sparked the best in the Dis-ers' when you asked for support on this one! What a wonderful array of articulate and sensible responses.

While never having experienced something of the sort, I have stood by a lot of friends who have been through very similar situations. Too many times, the best intentions of a birth parent just end up inflicting hardships on the rest of the family. While this decision may not make an immediate impact, I hope your DD begins to understand that her choices will always have consequences...and starts to make better ones. It is a harder lesson for some, and definitely made harder when all parents won't stand together.

Glad that you are going, and hope you get excited as can be...sounds like MY kind of trip (have always wanted to do MNSSHP and MVMCP in one stay!!!) Have a fabulous trip.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:33 AM   #25
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I have 3 kids but none as old as yours.

I would still go on vacation without her....both in November and the one you had scheduled for your 40th. She is very close to being an adult. She has made adult decisions...for better or for worse. She made your last trip miserable. Let her stay home with her father and you go and enjoy yourself.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:27 AM   #26
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This is a hard situation, some thoughts...

Many kids make some foolish mistakes along the way, but your DD seems to be quite troubled. What she did was criminal, and that makes it more serious than some dumb prank or simply goofing off because of "senioritis." Also, since she is 17, time seems to be critical, as you might lose what little control you do have when she turns 18.

I am all for tough love and suffer the consequences, really I am, but I feel when someone is acting out for attention, you need to pay attention, and give them exactly that... your attention.

Now is the time to make sure your actions are the same as your words, and the message should be clear... I love and care about you too much to allow you to throw away your future. She'll act as those she doesn't hear, she'll act as if she doesn't need you or want your help, but trust me, she's listening and somewhere deep down inside, she knows you're right and only want the best for her.

Your trip was scheduled for Feb., which you canceled. Now you have rescheduled a different trip for Nov. Going or not going on the trip doesn't concern me, since if she can't miss more school... she can't miss school, her actions made that decision for her. However, the timing of the trip could be a problem since you don't know what her punishment will involve, community service, probation, etc.

She is in need of some serious guidance right now, from a responsible parent. Taking a trip while she needs your attention may add to her imagined perception that you care more about your "new family" than you do about her. Not the message I would want my daughter to get and I wouldn't want to give her another twisted excuse she can use for her poor choices.

I agree she needs to understand that the needs and desires of all family members are important, so if you take this trip without her, make sure she understands she was definitely included in the original plans, but she blew that, and make sure your have a strong support system in place and strict supervision for her while you are gone.

FWIW - I'm just putting this out here so you know I'm not coming at this as a big "softy." I AM one of those "MEAN" Mommies... I actually expect my kids to behave, to be respectful of others' rights and considerate of their feelings, to follow rules in place for safety of everyone, to learn and perform well, to help out where there is a need, and to choose to do the right thing, even if at times, it's only so you never have to answer to anyone for your actions, etc. When our kids were small, I rarely did "time out." I chose to do "time in." I liked to send the message... can't behave, can't get along and make the right choices... then apparently you can't be trusted and need to be watched and treated like an infant. I made them spend time with me, joined at the hip. Whatever I was doing... dish, laundry, cleaning the bathroom, they had to do with me. They would act like they weren't happy about it at first, (too bad) but I actually think they really ended up enjoying the one on one attention. We would talk about what happened while we worked.
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:09 PM   #27
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I'm on Team Leave Behind. It's also my opinion that your ex-husband needs to forego his insecurities and become a proper parent. There's no winner in the 'She Loves Me More' contest. He's supposed to be helping to raise a responsible woman and sounds to me like he's been letting her do whatever, whenever. I used to have that problem with my son when he went to visit his dad. It would take about 2 wks. to undo the behavior after a visit.

You only get one life, and unfortunately, your daughter will learn (hopefully sooner rather than later) that bad choices will most definitely lead to unpleasant circumstances.

I can only imagine the heartache you've been through and are going through. Enjoy your vacation with your DH and the kids - you ALL deserve it. Your oldest will survive - all you can do is try to nurture and love as best you can - it's impossible to keep her in the 'protective' bubble.

God bless
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:51 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Rylee View Post
This is a hard situation, some thoughts...

Many kids make some foolish mistakes along the way, but your DD seems to be quite troubled. What she did was criminal, and that makes it more serious than some dumb prank or simply goofing off because of "senioritis." Also, since she is 17, time seems to be critical, as you might lose what little control you do have when she turns 18.

I am all for tough love and suffer the consequences, really I am, but I feel when someone is acting out for attention, you need to pay attention, and give them exactly that... your attention.

Now is the time to make sure your actions are the same as your words, and the message should be clear... I love and care about you too much to allow you to throw away your future. She'll act as those she doesn't hear, she'll act as if she doesn't need you or want your help, but trust me, she's listening and somewhere deep down inside, she knows you're right and only want the best for her.

Your trip was scheduled for Feb., which you canceled. Now you have rescheduled a different trip for Nov. Going or not going on the trip doesn't concern me, since if she can't miss more school... she can't miss school, her actions made that decision for her. However, the timing of the trip could be a problem since you don't know what her punishment will involve, community service, probation, etc.

She is in need of some serious guidance right now, from a responsible parent. Taking a trip while she needs your attention may add to her imagined perception that you care more about your "new family" than you do about her. Not the message I would want my daughter to get and I wouldn't want to give her another twisted excuse she can use for her poor choices.

I agree she needs to understand that the needs and desires of all family members are important, so if you take this trip without her, make sure she understands she was definitely included in the original plans, but she blew that, and make sure your have a strong support system in place and strict supervision for her while you are gone.

FWIW - I'm just putting this out here so you know I'm not coming at this as a big "softy." I AM one of those "MEAN" Mommies... I actually expect my kids to behave, to be respectful of others' rights and considerate of their feelings, to follow rules in place for safety of everyone, to learn and perform well, to help out where there is a need, and to choose to do the right thing, even if at times, it's only so you never have to answer to anyone for your actions, etc. When our kids were small, I rarely did "time out." I chose to do "time in." I liked to send the message... can't behave, can't get along and make the right choices... then apparently you can't be trusted and need to be watched and treated like an infant. I made them spend time with me, joined at the hip. Whatever I was doing... dish, laundry, cleaning the bathroom, they had to do with me. They would act like they weren't happy about it at first, (too bad) but I actually think they really ended up enjoying the one on one attention. We would talk about what happened while we worked.
Thank you for your insight. This definately has given me more to think about. She is always included in our plans, even though she balks at anything "Disney" anymore, except the cruise, because she knew it would be an itinerary/ship she hadn't seen, also she was excited to take her little brother (not her sister though-jealousy and all) on the Aqua Duck!!!

I also told my ex about our trip, and he absolutely agreed that the reason she can't go, whether it be in Nov. or Feb. is because of her own actions, and he does not expect me to cancel, postpone or rearrange. He actually told me that I was always the one being the bad guy/fall guy, trying to steer her in the proper direction, while he tried the "let's be friends" approach and he now realizes he has to step up to the plate and stop that!!! Score one for me finally...

Thanks to everyone else who has posted replied also. As I said, I don't like airing my dirty laundry on the internet, but in this case, I really felt that I had no one to turn to, to sound things out with. I do have to say I was fearful of that thrashing I was sure to get for "being a bad parent" that I have seen often on here, but I am so happy to have only recieved kindness and support, even in differing opinions. Thank you so much!!!
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:57 AM   #29
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Thank you for your insight. This definately has given me more to think about. She is always included in our plans, even though she balks at anything "Disney" anymore, except the cruise, because she knew it would be an itinerary/ship she hadn't seen, also she was excited to take her little brother (not her sister though-jealousy and all) on the Aqua Duck!!!

I also told my ex about our trip, and he absolutely agreed that the reason she can't go, whether it be in Nov. or Feb. is because of her own actions, and he does not expect me to cancel, postpone or rearrange. He actually told me that I was always the one being the bad guy/fall guy, trying to steer her in the proper direction, while he tried the "let's be friends" approach and he now realizes he has to step up to the plate and stop that!!! Score one for me finally...

Thanks to everyone else who has posted replied also. As I said, I don't like airing my dirty laundry on the internet, but in this case, I really felt that I had no one to turn to, to sound things out with. I do have to say I was fearful of that thrashing I was sure to get for "being a bad parent" that I have seen often on here, but I am so happy to have only recieved kindness and support, even in differing opinions. Thank you so much!!!
You're never going to hear the "you're being a bad parent speech from me." Parents need to realize that being a "friend" to your kids isn't in their best interest. Sure, you can be friends with them, but when they do something wrong they need discipline.

When my son was little he would tell me that he wasn't my friend anymore. I would always tell him that was okay, that he didn't have to be my friend because being my son was better and that I would love him anyways. Even if he wasn't my friend. When he realized that I was his mom first and friend second it helped a lot.

I'm really glad that your ex is trying to see things your way now. Unfortunately it sometimes takes things like this to make someone wake up and realize that they aren't helping their children by not disciplining them.

Keep up the great work. You sound like a wonderful parent in a tough situation.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:03 PM   #30
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Oddly enough, I'm in a very similiar situation to yours. My DSS16 was making very poor choices in friends/school etc and knew that we had a trip planned for Oct for our whole family; which includes my DS3/DD3 as well as another DSS12. Not only did we tell him that he had to clean up his act and do better/leave the antics behind, but went so far as to arrange an alternate to take his place if he wasn't able to come with us. He was told that all of his siblings would be coming, but if he couldn't come then he would be at home with his mom and attending school. The right to come with us had to be earned back and we would revisit with him monthly on behavior until the 45 day mark where we would confirm. We also cautioned him that if he gave us difficulty within the 45 day window we would bring the alternate (my sister) and pay the difference for changing. It's been months since he last gave us/his mom any difficulty and we've spent the 'check in' time with him discussing all the things we want to do while at the park. I think the fact that we were so serious about it and arranged the alternate let him know that it was completely up to him whether he came with us or stayed home. I would have missed him on the trip, but the other 3 children's needs as well as my overworked husband and myself all deserved to continue with the vacation.
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