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Old 09-14-2012, 09:55 AM   #61
JERME81
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I don't care either way if MK stays "dry" or not. Nobody is going to force you to drink wine or beer. They won't sell to children so I don't see what the big deal is. Its not like Budweiser is going to sponser the Dumbo ride. They also didn't say anything about there being any other locations in the park that wold be selling booze. People are not going to be wondering around with a beer or glass of wine in their hand.

I personally like to have a glass of wine with my dinner, its a choice....
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:00 AM   #62
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Now I understand both sides why people are for it and against it but what would you be more upset with them serving alcohol or them not serving it then raising ticket prices to 100 for a one day ticket.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:24 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by DisneyKevin View Post
I'm ambivalent about the fact that they are serving beer and wine at Be Our Guest.

I dont think it's a big deal in one restaurant. If Casey's begins selling Big Gulps of Michelob.....I'll probably feel different.

As for the argument of "what would Walt think".....well, a lot has changed since December 15, 1966.

Would Walt have approved of "Drink Around the World" or R-rated movies being shown at Pleasure Island. In 1966, you were allowed to smoke in restaurants and anywhere else you wanted to smoke. Would Walt have approved of making his guests smoke in small, "off the beaten path" places?

In 1966, there were very few women executives. Would Walt have approved of a woman in charge? Would Walt approve of his company offering health benefits to same sex couples? Would Walt have approved the cost of tickets approaching $100?

It's my opinion that the "what would Walt think" argument is a bit silly.

Walt was pretty forward thinking for his time and who knows what sort of changes might have been made eventually? He might have suggested that there be a sports bar where the ice cream shop is now.....especially if he saw it as a way to keep his business alive.

I agree with those who suggest that this might be a slippery slope. Disney is a business and they are good at taking every opportunity to make more money. If wine and beer show a big enough profit at BOG, no one should be surprised when it becomes available everywhere.

As for telling people "well just dont go" or "well, if you dont agree, you shouldn't go".....jeez.....this is a bit silly too.

We've always prided ourselves on the fact that civil discussions can take place on the Unplugged Board. You are allowed to disagree with anyone.....including me. Just follow the Dis Board guidelines and everyone is entitled to their opinion and the opportunity to share it.
Well said, Kevin.....that was the point I was trying to make in post 50 of this thread.

While I respect Nikki's opinion expressed in her blog. I personally have a hard time with "against Walt's wishes" being included in the blog title. That is pure speculation. Unless there is documentation of Walt's wish for alcohol to be sold at the Florida property.....no one can state as fact that Walt would or would not have approved of this 46 years after his death.

Walt planned to call the whole Florida property "EPCOT." That has been documented. Some people say "if you want to drink, go to EPCOT." Walt's original plan for EPCOT included the Magic Kingdom. If alcohol should not be sold in the Magic Kingdom because that is what people feel Walt would have wanted......then why aren't people upset about alcohol in the other parks?

I understand why people do not want alcohol to be sold..... If I am with a person who does not drink, then I do not drink either. That said, I personally do not understand the anger that is caused by speculation based on a philosophy that someone had 46 years ago.

Would Walt have approved? Maybe
Would Walt have not approved? Maybe

I just don't know.

Now, I do think the Disney company should always stay true to the quality experiences and products that built the brand and reputation. According to what I have read.....the alcohol at Be Our Guest will be tightly controlled......which is a good thing.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #64
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Not sure if it has been noted yet but the beer and wine will only be sold during dinner hours
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:00 AM   #65
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Doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I just made a dinner ADR for my February trip The dinner menu at BOG really seemed to be calling for a wine list, in my opinion.

I agree with the other posters who said that we don't know what Walt's wishes would've been at this stage. Like Kevin said, a lot has changed since 1966.

I will say that I've never seen anyone obnoxiously drunk anywhere on property. Not at Epcot, not at Jellyrolls, nowhere. Maybe I've been lucky so far, but everyone I've seen (even during F&W last year, when Epcot was loaded with LSU revelers for some reason) has just been happy and having a good time, not like angrily-drunk or vomiting or anything like that
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:18 AM   #66
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If we went along with everything Walt wanted, we'd have a Disney Ski Resort.

Walt's wishes are a bit irrelevant 46 years later.

Walt himself said the park would never be done.

He himself said there should be change.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:23 AM   #67
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Quote:
When Walt Disney first designed the Magic Kingdom, he made it clear that alcohol was not to be sold.
Walt made this clear for Disneyland, but is there any sort of documentation, story or witness account that supports this statement in regard to the Florida property?
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:24 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisneyKevin View Post
If we went along with everything Walt wanted, we'd have a Disney Ski Resort.

Walt's wishes are a bit irrelevant 46 years later.

Walt himself said the park would never be done.

He himself said there should be change.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShesAPirate
I will say that I've never seen anyone obnoxiously drunk anywhere on property. Not at Epcot, not at Jellyrolls, nowhere. Maybe I've been lucky so far, but everyone I've seen (even during F&W last year, when Epcot was loaded with LSU revelers for some reason) has just been happy and having a good time, not like angrily-drunk or vomiting or anything like that
I haven't either. At first the news surprised me, but honestly I don't really care. I don't drink but it won't affect my park experience at all.

I'd think differently if they were selling it from carts.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:51 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaGoat View Post
Crystal Palace is English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Palace

But I still don't see the big deal with beer and wine.
My bad. For some reason i was picturing the Parisian Exposition in my mind.




Anyways... on this whole conversation, 1 Meal, at 1 TS restaurant... I don't really have a problem with. The slippery slope that could lead to it be available throughout the park including stands and CS... I do.

As someone who drinks, I don't forsee people intentially getting drunk around the MK. I trust most Adults to be able to properly handle their their consumption. BUT... I know that the Florida Sun and heat can cause drinks to impact you much different than most people visiting may be used too.

Also, purely based off my observations and opinion, The MK can easily be the most hot, crowded, and stressful park out of the 4. It also seems to be the one with the highest density of younger children. Adding these factors which aren't really present in any of the other Disney parks, I can see much more room for problems arising with the addition of freely available alcohol at the park.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:03 PM   #71
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I'm also in the mindset of I don't see a problem of serving alcohol in a table service restaurant in MK. This argument seems to always be split no matter where or when it happens. I think it's ok so long as you limit where and when it's served. Make it expensive for people to drink heavily and they are less likely to do it. Now I know the true alcoholics probably won't care but they probably were already drunk when they entered the park anyway. This is just of course my thinking.

I kinda think you are asking for trouble if you drink heavily in Flordia heat anyway. Only place I drank heavily when I went to Flordia last time was Margaritaville and I usually did it on the way out and while eating. It was hot that day but I was getting a ride in an air conditioned taxi on my way back to the resort afterward so it didn't bother me. I rarely drank much at Epcot for the same reason and often did it after the sun went down when it wasn't as hot and at the end of the day.

I also don't think people planning a vacation to Disney World are thinking 'How drunk can I get at the MK?' or any park for that matter. A glass of wine or beer with dinner isn't going to turn the MK into a unfamily park. I can understand why this thinking exists but I honestly doubt letting people drink with dinner is going to change the family aspect of the MK. It doesn't change the family aspect of any other park that serves alcohol. While being dry makes MK unique so to speak I think it stands on it's own for being unique in other ways that far out weigh that of being a dry park. People go to MK because of what it stands for, a place to have fun with your family, I don't think serving alcohol will ever change that.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:04 PM   #72
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Now I understand both sides why people are for it and against it but what would you be more upset with them serving alcohol or them not serving it then raising ticket prices to 100 for a one day ticket.
Don't worry, that'll happen too in due time. Maybe that's why they're making alcohol available. To your sorrows!
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:56 PM   #73
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I don't think the question for me is what Walt Disney would have wanted. Instead, I think it dates back to the original stories of his intended plan for Magic Kingdom to be deemed a "family-friendly atmosphere." It is common knowledge among Disney fans that he did not want alcohol served in MK for this very reason, whether it was 1955, 1971, or 2012.

I have read in several books about this very fact. Similarly, it was discussed when I visited Disney Studios and the Archives in California. Apparently Walt made it clear during meetings and statements to the public that he felt alcohol should not be served in MK. The park was intended to be a place for families to be together and alcohol is not needed for families to enjoy themselves.

Of course, times have changed. The world and Disney Parks have changed as well. Despite this, Disney execs have continued to honor Walt's wishes regarding alcohol. Attractions, theming, and the like will always evolve; Walt announced this himself. However, he never stated that MK should be anything but a place for families to enjoy together without the selling of alcoholic beverages, which again according to him, is unnecessary.

Still, the question remains...should a visionary's opinion on an issue like this be upheld? In my opinion, most definitely.
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:40 PM   #74
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Quote:
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It is common knowledge among Disney fans that he did not want alcohol served in MK for this very reason, whether it was 1955, 1971, or 2012.
...
(clipping for brevity)
...
Still, the question remains...should a visionary's opinion on an issue like this be upheld? In my opinion, most definitely.
A few other thread, on these boards and others, have already pointed out where this logic falls short, though. In particular, Walt definitely did want the MK to be a family location. Not including the sale of alcohol was an important point towards that goal... at that time. One must consider the historical context, namely the only reasonable comparison at the time being various roadside carnivals and generally far more "dumpy" places than what exist today. Yes, it's common knowledge how he felt at the time. To try and take the same statements in a very different temporal context, would be a fallacy, though.

Should his opinion on creating a family-friendly atmosphere where everyone can enjoy spending time as a family together be upheld? I think most would agree. That this single goal is still the same does not necessarily mean that all of the components of achieving it are identical.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:21 PM   #75
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As others have pointed out, Walt did not want his park to resemble the roadside carnivals and tacky, rundown amusement parks.

As Disney has proven time and again, alcohol can be served in their theme parks without much issue and serving wine and beer only at dinner in a higher end restaurant is not the same as setting up a keg in the Winnie The Pooh queue.

It's my opinion that Walt's opinion would have evolved with the times. He died before we can know for certain, but from what I've read and heard....he was pretty forward thinking.

As I pointed out earlier, if Disney did everything Walt said, we'd be able to ski at Mineral King.

That being said, Disney has altered a great deal of what Walt created. There have been some drastic changes made. The same can be said for other corporations. Fords no longer look like the Fords sold in 1966 and Coca Cola used to contain actual drugs. Things just change.

Until the Emporium becomes a casino and the Golden Horseshoe a "dance" club, I think families will not even notice that patrons paying high dollar to dine at BOG are having wine with dinner.
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