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Old 09-18-2012, 07:30 AM   #106
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It's hard to imagine solar or wind ever providing a significant portion of our energy needs in the US. They are both inefficient and costly. Often China is a country Washington officials point to as a country to copy, but from what the Chinese are discovering with windmills and solar, hopfully we will not make the same mistakes they have.

"Why Not To Emulate China"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...ic-management/

Walter Russell Mead's article:

Quote:
Patrick Chovanec, a professor at Tsinghua University’s School of Economics and Management in Beijing, has an excellent roundup of the boondoggles besetting China—the kinds of boondoggles only top-down misinvestment can create (h/t Tyler Cowen). We’ve previously noted the problems with China’s solar energy sector, but we haven’t written much about their troubles with wind. Some of the statistics are jaw-droppers:
China’s top wind turbine manufacturers, Goldwind and Sinovel, saw their earnings plummet by 83% and 96% respectively in the first half of 2012, year-on-year. Domestic wind farm operators Huaneng and Datang saw profits plunge 63% and 76%, respectively, due to low capacity utilization. China’s national electricity regulator, SERC, reported that 53% of the wind power generated in Inner Mongolia province in the first half of this year was wasted. One analyst told China Securities Journal that “40-50% of wind power projects are left idle,” with many not even connected to the grid.
There’s lots more where that came from. Read the whole thing. Mr. Chovanec’s takeaway?
Many in Washington have developed a serious case of China-envy, seeing it as an exemplar of how to run an economy. In fact, Beijing’s mandarins are no better at picking winners, and just as prone to blow money on boondoggles, as their Beltway counterparts.
In his State of the Union address earlier this year, President Obama declared, “I will not cede the wind or solar or battery industry to China . . . because we refuse to make the same commitment here.” Given what’s really happening in China, he may want to think again.
Indeed.
The nice part for those highly concerned about Co2 levels, surprisingly the brown energy market is making a positive impact on lowering levels. Hopfully we will continue developing our new found fossil fuels in the US, along with opening that pipeline from Canada, and continuing to work with Mexico. Doing so will help with the environment, plus help make the US more secure, along with providing much needed good paying jobs.

"US Carbon Output Forecasts Shrink Again"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...-shrink-again/

snippet:

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Much to the surprise (and, one suspects, the chagrin) of the deranged doomsaying wing of the environmental movement, new forecasts of US CO2 emission are out and they point to an even steeper drop than the last set of predictions.
No cap and trade, no huge new taxes on oil, no draconian driver restrictions, no air conditioning bans, no rationing — and the US is on track to cut its CO2 emissions 17 percent below the 2005 levels by 2020 — and to keep cutting our emissions levels beyond that.
And this news doesn’t come from embattled climate skeptics banished to the fringes of the scientific community; these numbers come from the Obama administration and are sitting right up on Don Lashof’s well respected blog at the National Resource Defense Council website. Take a look for yourselves.
So, to summarize, the United States of America basically blew the global greens off completely, trampling all over their carbon tax and cap and trade agendas, and earning wails and shrieks of hatred at the Rio+20 Summit — while making huge strides toward reducing CO2 emission levels....
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:39 AM   #107
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Don't forget to leave alternative fuels out of discussion. My DD is very passionate about this subject and has begun her college studies largely with the idea to focus in this area. There are a lot of strides being made in a wide variety of alternatives, with tremendous advances in a relatively short period of time as to what can be done with many of the options. IMO it's likely we won't change from the fossil fuels w/ one major alternative, but rather using different alternatives to fill the needs in the uses where they're most efficient. Who's to say taking a bit off here, another nip there, etc., etc. won't help us push the oil dependency down.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:45 AM   #108
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It's been pushed back. It was supposed to open in October but is now opening in December. Don't know when that decision was made. I wonder if the Bin Laden book riled people up a bit, though.

As for not sending money to the Middle East. The Saudi's are a major U.S. bond holder. As for being oil independent, what we pump on U.S. soil is often sent to Asian countries.
Zero Dark Thirty was delayed because Sony/Columbia were criticized for having the release date soon before the election - that it would unfairly give Obama an edge. The release date was postponed til December so that marketing, promotions, etc. would not take place til after the election.

That's their story. Personally I think they delayed it because it's an "Oscar bait" film and those always come out mid to late December.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:39 AM   #109
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I dont know where you got your info, but many of these windmills are made here in the USA and more specifically, in Columbus, Nebraska where the welders start at $50k a year and there is a major shortage of welders. www.katana-summit.com
ETA: $50k a year is a good living here in Nebraska.
Sorry, my source mentioned overseas and China for building the turbines. Here is one http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...-be-made-china.

I'm glad that Nebraska is putting people to work building these monstrosities, but the fact remains that once they are built they will not need many people to harvest that wind. And the neighbors will still have health issues because of them and then there are those pesky birds.......
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:01 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by cabanafrau View Post
Don't forget to leave alternative fuels out of discussion. My DD is very passionate about this subject and has begun her college studies largely with the idea to focus in this area. There are a lot of strides being made in a wide variety of alternatives, with tremendous advances in a relatively short period of time as to what can be done with many of the options. IMO it's likely we won't change from the fossil fuels w/ one major alternative, but rather using different alternatives to fill the needs in the uses where they're most efficient. Who's to say taking a bit off here, another nip there, etc., etc. won't help us push the oil dependency down.
I agree. There are numerous other kinds of fuels out there. I guess their lobbyists don't have as much money as the petroleum lobbyists do.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:48 PM   #111
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I agree. There are numerous other kinds of fuels out there. I guess their lobbyists don't have as much money as the petroleum lobbyists do.
The other fuel sources, which for the most part are not efficient (wind, solar, ethanol) are given lots of money from the government (also known as the tax payer) in the form of subsidies. Look up Solyndra. A fine example of a boatload of money wasted.

As to the original question of the OP, looks like the WH is finally admitting that it was a terrorist attack. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...rrorist_attack


Also, the president seems to be attending his daily intelligence briefings now too. That's good.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:17 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Muushka View Post
The other fuel sources, which for the most part are not efficient (wind, solar, ethanol) are given lots of money from the government (also known as the tax payer) in the form of subsidies. Look up Solyndra. A fine example of a boatload of money wasted.

As to the original question of the OP, looks like the WH is finally admitting that it was a terrorist attack. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...rrorist_attack


Also, the president seems to be attending his daily intelligence briefings now too. That's good.
I was not referring to wind or solar, rather completely new sources of energy which are under development and being researched. I agree about Solyndra, but think it is foolhardy to bring that up in regard to the subject of alternative energy sources as a whole.

As I said before, I don't think we should expect the solution is going to come in the form of one magic bullet. There is an incredible amount of research being done right now, much of which is showing tremendous promise providing differing amounts and types of energy for various uses. If even a handful of these become widely used in applications where they are most efficient, it removes at least that much from our current usage of traditional fuel sources. A little bit from here, a little from there, more efficient technology in the area of traditional fuels and we could significantly drop our current usage.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:01 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by cabanafrau View Post
I was not referring to wind or solar, rather completely new sources of energy which are under development and being researched. I agree about Solyndra, but think it is foolhardy to bring that up in regard to the subject of alternative energy sources as a whole.

As I said before, I don't think we should expect the solution is going to come in the form of one magic bullet. There is an incredible amount of research being done right now, much of which is showing tremendous promise providing differing amounts and types of energy for various uses. If even a handful of these become widely used in applications where they are most efficient, it removes at least that much from our current usage of traditional fuel sources. A little bit from here, a little from there, more efficient technology in the area of traditional fuels and we could significantly drop our current usage.
The reason why I brought up Solyndra is because you said
Quote:
I guess their lobbyists don't have as much money as the petroleum lobbyists do.
which implies that oil receives more money because of lobbyists. When in fact, wind, solar and ethanol receives subsidies.

Out of curiosity, what energy sources are you talking about, exactly?
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:21 AM   #114
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The reason why I brought up Solyndra is because you said which implies that oil receives more money because of lobbyists. When in fact, wind, solar and ethanol receives subsidies.

Out of curiosity, what energy sources are you talking about, exactly?
I didn't say anything about lobbyists, although I'd have to agree their influence was/is no doubt quite powerful. This also would help explain why most of the time the general public opinion and conversation about this reflects the unreliability of solar and wind generated power. While there are certainly many considerations to be made about the returns on investment for these sources, I think we should be careful to be equally mindful of other special interests dogging these sources for their own ends.

I'm talking about things such as what's being done chemically, many times involving agricultural components, including things like sugar beets, etc. Much is also happening in the area of batteries & developing means to "fill" batteries with energy, their ability to store the energy steadily and (relatively) long-term in a stable manner and deliver the energy efficiently to equipment, devices and vehicles. That's just some off the top of my head things I know are happening, and I have even the most minimal understanding of to try to relate to anyone else. There is much, much more going on & I've heard about some stuff I couldn't even begin to wrap my brain around, let alone say anything about it to someone else beyond umm. Hopefully some of those things will be able to come to fruition and pick up some of the load sooner rather than later.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:50 AM   #115
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I agree, I also hope for energy alternatives. Ones that survive on their own merits, not the tax payer's dime.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:08 AM   #116
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I agree, I also hope for energy alternatives. Ones that survive on their own merits, not the tax payer's dime.
Well, if the criteria is surviving on its own merits and not the taxpayer dime that would exclude big oil
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:10 AM   #117
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The other fuel sources, which for the most part are not efficient (wind, solar, ethanol) are given lots of money from the government (also known as the tax payer) in the form of subsidies. Look up Solyndra. A fine example of a boatload of money wasted.

As to the original question of the OP, looks like the WH is finally admitting that it was a terrorist attack. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...rrorist_attack


Also, the president seems to be attending his daily intelligence briefings now too. That's good.
I'm still not convinced it was a terrorist attack and not protestors who just hates us on the anniversary of 9-11. Did the RPG's start the attack, or did they people show up later with them? I believe stores of weapons were sacked during the revolution, so random people could have them. I don't know.

This is a good article:

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.o...attack-diverge

Last edited by sparklynails23; 09-20-2012 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:01 AM   #118
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OT yet loosely related: Energy is a huge issue we are facing. Coal is being phased out with no alternative to replace it. Those on the natural gas bandwagon do not realize we don't have the infrastructure to support it nor do we have the funds to even develop the infrastructure. IIRC coal supplies 42% of our electricity. It's short sighted to cut out coal without a viable alternative. I wonder what we will do when it's gone.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #119
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Well, if the criteria is surviving on its own merits and not the taxpayer dime that would exclude big oil
A subsidy for oil? Like what Solyndra and other wind/solar/ethanol receives?

Evil oil. Evil coal Evil nuclear. Evil gas.

Everyone will be so much better off when these things are eliminated. Wait and see. As mentioned above, there are going to be huge implications with all of these coal mining companies being put out of business. But the Sierra Club will be happy, and apparently that is all that is important in this country.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:57 AM   #120
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I'm still not convinced it was a terrorist attack and not protestors who just hates us on the anniversary of 9-11.
Eh, are you still not convinced?

Obama Administration finally admits Libyan Embassy attack was a terrorist strike

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/globa...rrorism/57323/

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