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Old 09-12-2012, 02:44 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by robinb View Post
He absolutely has blame in this situation. He directed the film and Jone promoted the film to get a reaction. They were wildly successful.
I don't think he should. People should be able to make provocative films without worrying about whether not someone will die because someone doesn't like it. I'd much rather a movie that aims to offend me be made than limit the free artistic expression of someone because it might offend me. From what I've heard it was a very "offensive" film (in quotes because I can't ever see any film ever actually offending me) but that still doesn't mean the response to that film is on the director.

If you aren't a savage you can disagree with a message without violence or even the threat of violence. The only people I blame for the deaths are those who perpetrated them (though even the riot was stupid and an over-reaction so that is on the group that was there), not the film maker or the religion of those involved.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:45 PM   #77
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Nope sorry He only made a film he is not accountable for anyone's actions from it. Just because I don't like something it doesn't give me the right to go out and murder and riot.
I have to agree with this.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by robinb View Post
I also agree with this, I do think the film was used as a cover. But I don't let the filmmaker off the hook.
That is like blaming someone else for another persons mistake.


Just remember these people didn't really kill the 4 people based on the film. They killed them because of who they were and what they thought they stand for.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:52 PM   #79
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We also give these countries who hate us billions in aid money and this is what they do
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:53 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by SaraJayne View Post
You are correct. It was in retaliation for an earlier terrorist death. I added that to my post earlier, but I must have edited a bit too much.
Or I may have just missed you saying it. Plus I think it needed to be repeated.

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Originally Posted by robinb View Post
I also agree with this, I do think the film was used as a cover. But I don't let the filmmaker off the hook.
While I many not agree with the content, he had the right to do it. Of course he also has to live with the consequences.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #81
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A solution an unpopular one to some

Start drilling for oil here like crazy. Cap the wells or use the oil. What you have to do is get into a position of strength. When you have that then you tell those nuts they can kill themselves all they want just don't involve us. Also tell them if we buy their oil it will be on our terms.

The terrorist have oil revenue to finance their war. Dry that up and you hamper what they can do.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #82
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Or I may have just missed you saying it. Plus I think it needed to be repeated.
No, it wasn't there. I went back and checked.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaluvPluto View Post
That is like blaming someone else for another persons mistake.
If someone takes a baseball bat to a hornet's nest and I get stung, who would be to blame?

ETA: I am a firm supporter of the First Amendment. I believe that the film maker had the right to make the film here in the US. He had the right to spew his hatred and attempt to intentionally piss off a group of people quick to anger. That being said, he now has to live with the consequences of the film even if the film was used as a cover. I believe that includes the murder of 4 people.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #84
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Yes, it was a total over-reaction. Like I said earlier, it is very closed minded to mock a religion or religions figure and kind of dumb to burn religious books but none of that is a reason to riot or kill. Someone brought up the Koran burning and that was another complete over-reaction, people were threatening to kill people based on it.
You are forgetting or ignoring the fact that people did get killed because Terry Jones burned the Qur'ans. I'm thinking that the families of the UN mission staff members who were decapitated would just as soon Jones didn't burn the books.
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I'm not defending the burning of a religious book but really who cares? If someone anywhere wants to burn Korans, Bibles, or any other book go ahead. I'll think you are an ignorant fool but whatever, I am not going to let it ruin my minute let along lead me to violence.
You may think that they are savages and ignorant. Further, you might never be incited to violence by those who blaspheme your God/prophet. However, to suggest that such blaspheme doesn't result in violent acts is not a logical position, in my opinion.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #85
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If someone took a baseball bat to a hornet's nest and I get stung, who would be to blame?
Hornets don't have free will. Stinging you would be a natural instinct. Humans have the ability to choose their actions. If your husband has a lousy day at work and takes it out on your by beating you, is his work to blame?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #86
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Quote:
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If someone took a baseball bat to a hornet's nest and I get stung, who would be to blame?
I don't think it is a fair comparison. The hornets would be attacking you in self defense. To make you analogy more accurate one person would have to make a film mocking the hornet's deity is and the nest of hornets then organizes and stings completely non-connected other people to death.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #87
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I support the first amendment, period.
I support the First Amendment. However, a couple points are important.

First, the First Amendment doesn't give someone complete freedom to say anything that they want. For instance, that amendment doesn't allow for a person to incite violence.

Second, the Bill of Rights lists protections that a citizen has against government action. It doesn't protect that person against private acts nor does that protection against governmental action mean that a person is right to say or do anything that he feels like.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:08 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDancer View Post
I don't think he should. People should be able to make provocative films without worrying about whether not someone will die because someone doesn't like it. I'd much rather a movie that aims to offend me be made than limit the free artistic expression of someone because it might offend me. From what I've heard it was a very "offensive" film (in quotes because I can't ever see any film ever actually offending me) but that still doesn't mean the response to that film is on the director.
Of course it is. Filmmakers create films to incite a reaction. It is certainly no shocker that a film like this one would incite violent reaction. Heck, that's why the filmmaker is hiding behind a pseudonym.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #89
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Of course it is. Filmmakers create films to incite a reaction. It is certainly no shocker that a film like this one would incite violent reaction. Heck, that's why the filmmaker is hiding behind a pseudonym.
Reactions are fine. Talk, debate, even a rebuttal film showing the errors of the first. Violence is not. Violence is never an acceptable reaction to any movie for any reason. Full Stop. Michael Moore makes provocative films that get a reaction, not killings. Think logically, don't react emotionally.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #90
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I'm sorry, I've been busy at work and don't know the details. Who exactly is "apologizing"? Someone must be because numerous people on this thread have said they should stop.
Look around. Some out there (news outlets/candidates) have reported/stated the first condemnation of the movie as an apology of sorts. Twisting statements and this situation for further campaigning/wedge-driving is disgusting.
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