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Old 09-12-2012, 09:47 AM   #1
skier_pete
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Something JHM says I can agree with!

Something I think every day when reading the "Rumors and News" thread.

Quote:
But to certain Disney fanbois, none of this sort of reinvestment ever really matters. They just laser focus in on the chipped paint and/or continue to moan about how the Disneyland Resort gets all of the cool stuff, even though there's still $300 - $400 million worth of new rides, shows and attractions about to be unveiled at the Magic Kingdom. If you listen to these folks, the Fantasyland expansion (which none of us have actually experienced yet) is already in the rear view mirror. These people (if you sample various discussion boards around the Web) are already *****ing about the budget cuts that have reportedly been made to WDW's version of Radiator Springs Racers which is reportedly in the works for Disney's Hollywood Studios. Or they're chortling about how James Cameron and the Imagineers now appear to be having creative differences when it comes to the "World of Avatar" project.

My advice is just ignore people like this. If Walt Disney Parks and Resorts only built E Tickets in Orlando from here on in, these very same fanbois would still somehow find something else to complain about. That's just the way that they're wired. These people can't help themselves. All they can ever see (and all they're ever going to see) are Disney's supposed shortcomings.
AMEN!

Full article HERE
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:33 AM   #2
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I had read the entire article and do agree with some of it. But I think Jim Hill does himself a disservice by bringing up things like new resorts and road improvements. If I'm staying at the BoardWalk (or Poly, or POFQ or any of two dozen others) the existence of Art of Animation & Grand Floridian DVC do nothing to enhance my vacation experience.

And Disney has an obligation to keep the road system workable.

I do think that he makes a good point about the little additions to the parks adding up. When we visit in December it will only have been 10 months since our last trip. But the new things we will find include all of the new Fantasyland stuff, all of Circusland, the Phineas & Ferb game in Epcot, updated Test Track, Sorcerers of the MK (still in testing last trip)...and probably some other things I'm forgetting. That's a pretty good list of roll-outs over less than a year.

The unfortunate thing is I think Disney could have avoided much of this criticism with just one legitimate E-Ticket attraction. AFAIK the last E-Ticket was Everest 6 years ago...and that attraction is a punchline for many WDW fans due to the yeti issues.

I don't get the sense that the Snow White coaster will be worthy of the E-Ticket designation so we're probably looking at 9-10 years between "E"s. And it's looking like the next one may be a Radiator Springs Racers clone which is so completely disheartening to me.

In some ways Hill is right...in others he's wrong. But at the end of the day, I think WDW only has itself to blame for the perceptions. They have been doing a lot of needed attraction updates (TT, Star Tours, Living Seas, Spaceship Earth, etc.) but you can't put those updates on equal footing with an entirely new, revolutionary experience. WDW could have used a couple brand new experiences over the last 5-6 years.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
I had read the entire article and do agree with some of it. But I think Jim Hill does himself a disservice by bringing up things like new resorts and road improvements. If I'm staying at the BoardWalk (or Poly, or POFQ or any of two dozen others) the existence of Art of Animation & Grand Floridian DVC do nothing to enhance my vacation experience.
Hey Tim. The road reference is a good point, Grand Floridian DVC though? It may not add to this year's experience but yes, it adds to the experience. That is like saying if they add an E-Ticket at Epcot and you are visiting for one day at the MK, it is not adding to your experience. Well if you decide not to stay at or ride within something they build, sure it won't.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:41 PM   #4
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On another note, maybe the Seven Dwarfs ride is not an E-Ticket but New Fantasyland in General appears that it will be a top level added experience itself. I believe we will enjoy that area very much including just walking around and taking in the sites and sounds.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
I had read the entire article and do agree with some of it. But I think Jim Hill does himself a disservice by bringing up things like new resorts and road improvements. If I'm staying at the BoardWalk (or Poly, or POFQ or any of two dozen others) the existence of Art of Animation & Grand Floridian DVC do nothing to enhance my vacation experience.

And Disney has an obligation to keep the road system workable.

I do think that he makes a good point about the little additions to the parks adding up. When we visit in December it will only have been 10 months since our last trip. But the new things we will find include all of the new Fantasyland stuff, all of Circusland, the Phineas & Ferb game in Epcot, updated Test Track, Sorcerers of the MK (still in testing last trip)...and probably some other things I'm forgetting. That's a pretty good list of roll-outs over less than a year.

The unfortunate thing is I think Disney could have avoided much of this criticism with just one legitimate E-Ticket attraction. AFAIK the last E-Ticket was Everest 6 years ago...and that attraction is a punchline for many WDW fans due to the yeti issues.

I don't get the sense that the Snow White coaster will be worthy of the E-Ticket designation so we're probably looking at 9-10 years between "E"s. And it's looking like the next one may be a Radiator Springs Racers clone which is so completely disheartening to me.

In some ways Hill is right...in others he's wrong. But at the end of the day, I think WDW only has itself to blame for the perceptions. They have been doing a lot of needed attraction updates (TT, Star Tours, Living Seas, Spaceship Earth, etc.) but you can't put those updates on equal footing with an entirely new, revolutionary experience. WDW could have used a couple brand new experiences over the last 5-6 years.
Yup, I do agree he hurts his own argument with "Look, they put in a hotel" but he's right in one respect even on that and it's an argument I've been making for a while. Most people criticize Disney for not spending money, but what they actually are critizing them for is "not spending money on something I WANT". Avatarland is a good example. Disney comes out and says "you want more stuff in the parks - here's half a billion worth of high-tech goodness". The result: 80 % of the fan community hates it saying "why don't you spend it on Star Wars!" basically saying "I want more Star Wars attractions - why can't you let me have what I want!"

I do agree WDW is overdue for a new E-ticket, and I also agree that Mine Coaster might not be that. Here's hoping we do get one in the next 5 years in addition to Radiator Springs Racers. (Though I feel the need to point out the original E-ticket attractions at MK were "It's a Small World", "20,000 leagues", "Country Bear Jamboree", "Jungle Cruise", "Hall of Presidents" and "Haunted Mansion", so our standards for an E-ticket are probably higher than they should be.)
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1971 - 1982 Many childhood trips May 1997 - Off-site w/ DGF (now DW) October 2000 - Off-site w/ DW - 1st AK
October 14-20,2006 - First on-site (POFQ), first w/ DD3 and DMIL. September 22-29, 2007 with freinds @ POFQ! August 23-31, 2008. Just us 3...dining for free!
December 12-20, 2009 - 40th Birthday trip! Trip Report April 20-25, 2010 - Short surprise trip for DD! Trip Report
October 15-25, 2010 @ AKL Trip Report!
November 11-20, 2011 - Free dining at CBR! PTR! and Trip Report
July/August 2012 Disneyland / Australia TripPTR "I choose to Be Amused" TR
The Disney Trifecta - a PTR for 2013. LINK Trip Reports - ABD: "A Fistful of Fastpasses" WDW: "For A Few Fastpasses More" DCL: "Once Upon a Time in the Carribean"

October 2014 Pre Trip Report- "Let us plan our Escape !" LINK
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:44 PM   #6
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MK gets a new C-ticket and D-ticket attraction, or 2 D-ticket attractions, some kid-friendly meet and greets and a restaurant....no E-tickets since Splash Mountain in 1992.

Epcot and AK are stagnant, DHS we still don't know about, and meanwhile the competition up the road is building things so quickly, every month it seems like there's a new project in the worlds.

Its not fanboi complaining, its seeing things the way they are. WDW is moving like a dinosaur....scratch that, its moving like a Brachiosaur, and Universal is moving like a Velociraptor.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awilliams4 View Post
...Grand Floridian DVC though? It may not add to this year's experience but yes, it adds to the experience. That is like saying if they add an E-Ticket at Epcot and you are visiting for one day at the MK, it is not adding to your experience. Well if you decide not to stay at or ride within something they build, sure it won't.
DVC members may have a bit different perspective since it does add to the portfolio of available destinations.

But to all other guests, I don't know that hotel development is really adding to the experience. Put it this way, when it comes time to use my $500 theme park ticket, AoA and VGF aren't giving me any more bang for my buck.

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Originally Posted by skier_pete View Post
Most people criticize Disney for not spending money, but what they actually are critizing them for is "not spending money on something I WANT".
That's a good observation.

If I were playing devil's advocate, I'd say that Disney perhaps needs to do a better job of giving more people what they want when choosing projects. American Idol is an attraction which I don't think resonated particularly well with Disney guests. The original Fantasyland proposal of a restaurant, a ride and a bunch of meet-and-greets is another good example.

I do think the criticism of Avatar is premature...but Disney really needs to deliver on that one. A less-than-endearing property combined with lackluster attractions will not go over well. Disney needs to make sure that Avatarland is something that even non-fans will want to visit repeatedly just because the attractions are so good.

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Originally Posted by ChrisFL View Post
Its not fanboi complaining, its seeing things the way they are. WDW is moving like a dinosaur....scratch that, its moving like a Brachiosaur, and Universal is moving like a Velociraptor.
True but there has been ebb and flow to development by both US and DIS. Universal is on a spending spree now but they weren't writing checks like this 5 years ago and probably won't be 5 years down the road.

US undeniably has the momentum right now and Disney needs to respond. But I don't think Disney has been irrevocably harmed because they didn't match dollar-for-dollar over the last 3-4 years.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #8
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Disney needs to take a bigger view, As much as we may not like it DCA was a far bigger priority than anything in FL. That behind us, we see a lot of new things on the horizon. With fantasyland nearing completion we shall see what is next.

To say Epcot is stagnant is not really true. Little of Epcot has not changed since it opened and in the last few years there have been soooo many enhancements that have really added up. Restaurants, drinking spaces and the the like have all improved in the last few years. Yes there has not been a big E ticket but that is not the only way to improve a park experience
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