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Old 09-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #91
DCTooTall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzlekins View Post
Points taken, and I realize that Cameron is a good horse to bet on, but why bet at all? Why begin construction on a project that already has some doubt shadowing it, two more movies in the making that may or may not be hits (what if they're lousy?), and no real proven track record? Unlike Star Wars, Toy Story, and Harry Potter, Avatar hasn't proved anything but box office success. I seem to remember seeing a lot of Avatar products in clearance bins. Fifty Shades of Grey is the biggest selling book of all time but I wouldn't recommend making a Disney theme area around it. If there are viable options out there with proven track records, why go with a gamble? And by viable with proven track records, I mean sustained popularity, rabid fans, and the ability to move merchandise. If the cartoon based attractions are what pull in the small children and they're looking to capture a different market, then I still think Star Wars is a strong candidate. Grown men in their 40s and 50s would go to Disney for a SW land. A well done technologically advanced space theme would likely appeal to teens as well. Aside from the thematic elements that could really appeal to everyone, getting the teen demo is in the coasters. They need to incorporate a good coaster no matter what.

I'm not a die-hard Disney fan or Universal fan - I'm a newbie compared to most here. I love Disney but didn't visit until I was 39 and my daughter was 3. I visited both Universal parks on the same trip. I visited Disney & IOA on my second trip. I would've skipped IOA on my upcoming trip but we're spending a day there. Why? Because my 42 yr old husband and 5 yr old daughter both insist on visiting the WWOHP. Neither is interested in an Avatarland. Both would want to go to a Star Wars land or Cars land. Hmmmm.

We're just one family and this is all just my opinion. But I am speaking from a business woman's perspective rather than a die hard Disney traditionalist or groupie or whatever. In the end, I think Disney does amazing work with virtually everything they do. I'll check out whatever they throw out there. The only issue will be how quickly I rush back and how much it draws in the "new" crowd other people claim they're looking for.
The advantages I see with the Avatar deal (and I've gone into detail with other threads on this subject) are not with the Movie storyline or tie-in, but more with the amazing Work Cameron did on the location and world he created. What a lot of people may not realize who are focusing just on what was seen in the movie, is that he actually developed an entire world, complete with plants and animals that are connected within that environment, just like you can see connections between the plants and animals on our planet. Even if you saw the movie (which many here seem to admit not watching), you may have easily missed this because of the distraction of the whole space marines vs. big blue people storylines... But the plants and animals in which they interacted were much more fleshed out.... and visually interesting.... than your typical "sci-fi movie on an alien planet" design work which tends to be more focused on creating individual cool creatures or settings to fill a need within the film without much concern for thoughts of "how would this creature survive in nature? Would it be a predator or prey? What and how would it hunt? How would it's prey have adapted to defend itself?". These are questions Cameron actually contemplated when designing the alien life on the Pandora planet.


Soooo.... From a Disney standpoint, The Avatar deal gives the imagineers access to a fully flesh out, visually interesting and exciting, mythical ecosystem upon which to work their magic. Instead of working on an "Avatarland" built around a movie narrative, They are able to focus on creating interesting stories and experiences of their own within the "Pandora" section of AK. Similar to how the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror was not based off a single Twilight Zone story, but used the Twilight Zone (Which BTW... Also not a Disney Property) to set the stage and mood of the attraction they designed, "Pandora" can be used to set the stage and atmosphere of a new set of stories and experiences for the guests. Even better, The alien Jungle with it's 'mythical animals' could fit in quite nicely with Animal Kingdom's existing look and feel.... especially with as lush as the Oasis and that side of Discovery Island already are. In My personal opinion, focusing on the so-so narrative of the first movie is the wrong way for both us as Disney fans, and Disney itself, to approach this whole deal.


And From a Guest standpoint, There are potentially several huge pluses for us with this deal. First off, The world of Pandora looked absolutely amazing at night with all the bio-luminescent plants and animals. Between liberal use of fiberoptic lighting effects, and even Disney's recent announcement of their plant-interface tech, Just imagine how amazing this area would be at night.....

Secondly... They have the land and ability to create for us another quality headliner attraction/ride within Animal Kingdom. I don't think anyone would complain about another attraction at the park, And it could even help flesh out the AK from the 1/2day park many believe it to be, to closer to a full day park. As an added bonus, With another major attraction in the park to draw people in and "eat the crowds", Disney may finally feel like they have enough breathing room to down Expedition Everest for an extended refurb to fix Betty the Yeti. (Currently, as what many see as being the only real headline ride in the park [outside the safari], It's harder to justify a months-long refurb to fix a show element that doesn't directly impact the ride's operation... and which many guests don't even realize isn't working properly).

And Third... Currently Animal Kingdom is the only park that routinely closes early. This is due to several factors including the lack of attractions or draws to the park once the animal based attractions need to start shutting down to allow them to care for the animals. With the Pandora section's wonderful nighttime lights, Disney would have something to help convince people to stay late. The plot is also much further from the majority of the animals, so between it's location, atmosphere, and new construction, it would allow Disney to finally add something that MANY MANY people think is lacking at the Animal Kingdom..... The Grand Finale show at the end of the day. While pyrotechnic effects can't be used due to the concern for the animal welfare (many animals don't handle fireworks/explosions well), It would provide an amazing setting for Disney to bring the East Coast a version of the World of Color show. (Complete with light-up ears! )


So here are several of my opinions on why Avatar may have been a good deal, and could turn out very well, and possibly even better than many other properties they could build a land off of. [at least, within the AK... which is the only park that really has the room for a major expansion like this].
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #92
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You've probably heard this before, but if you've seen Pocahontas, you've seen Avatar. It really is the same movie, just set on a fictional planet.

Yup! I thought it was nothing special. Some stunning special effects (but others were better) and the same old tired story line....Bunch of Tree Huggers attacked by militarisitic uncaring coporations.....yawn. At least Pocohontas had some decent music!
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #93
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DCTooTall - All excellent points! I definitely understand your perspective. I don't disagree that Disney could do amazing things with the land, and I would love to see them extend the hours at that park. We can easily spend an entire day there, but not two full days. It would be nice to spend one longer day there. I guess my hangup with what you're describing is attaching the name Avatar to it. That seems risky, given that the remaining movies aren't out yet and there seems to be considerable backlash for the first. If the second movie tanks, that is sooo not going to be good for what could be a great attraction. If the second movie is stellar, obviously that would be good. But it could really go either way. It's such a big investment. I don't know that I'd have the guts to pull the trigger on that if I worked at Disney. I guess it remains a wait and see proposition. It should be interesting....
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:28 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzlekins View Post
DCTooTall - All excellent points! I definitely understand your perspective. I don't disagree that Disney could do amazing things with the land, and I would love to see them extend the hours at that park. We can easily spend an entire day there, but not two full days. It would be nice to spend one longer day there. I guess my hangup with what you're describing is attaching the name Avatar to it. That seems risky, given that the remaining movies aren't out yet and there seems to be considerable backlash for the first. If the second movie tanks, that is sooo not going to be good for what could be a great attraction. If the second movie is stellar, obviously that would be good. But it could really go either way. It's such a big investment. I don't know that I'd have the guts to pull the trigger on that if I worked at Disney. I guess it remains a wait and see proposition. It should be interesting....

That's actually why I'm loath to use the name "AvatarLand". Too easy to make assumptions to jump to conclusions about the area. I much prefer to use the name "Pandora" to describe the area. When you think about it, With at least the way i see things, the focus of the area would be the planet, Pandora, and it's inhabitants, and not the "Avatar" creations which the space marines used to interact with the natives.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:00 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
That's actually why I'm loath to use the name "AvatarLand". Too easy to make assumptions to jump to conclusions about the area. I much prefer to use the name "Pandora" to describe the area. When you think about it, With at least the way i see things, the focus of the area would be the planet, Pandora, and it's inhabitants, and not the "Avatar" creations which the space marines used to interact with the natives.
That is true, and I agree that Pandora would be a better name.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:56 PM   #96
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Thanks for the comments and explanation.
Yes, somehow it is easier to visualize a Pandora there than an Avatarland.
Yet I still don't care that much if it gets delayed or shelved.

And I retain the perogative of changing my mind if it is built and turns out to be fantastic.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:51 PM   #97
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Disney would probably rather put a Carsland in DHS anyways...
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:44 AM   #98
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I'm glad...
I mean,They thought mythical beasts had nothing to do with animals,But Avatar's does?
Plus,Why don't they build another Lion king Attraction? That would be great!

I'm just rambling now....
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
The advantages I see with the Avatar deal (and I've gone into detail with other threads on this subject) are not with the Movie storyline or tie-in, but more with the amazing Work Cameron did on the location and world he created. What a lot of people may not realize who are focusing just on what was seen in the movie, is that he actually developed an entire world, complete with plants and animals that are connected within that environment, just like you can see connections between the plants and animals on our planet. Even if you saw the movie (which many here seem to admit not watching), you may have easily missed this because of the distraction of the whole space marines vs. big blue people storylines... But the plants and animals in which they interacted were much more fleshed out.... and visually interesting.... than your typical "sci-fi movie on an alien planet" design work which tends to be more focused on creating individual cool creatures or settings to fill a need within the film without much concern for thoughts of "how would this creature survive in nature? Would it be a predator or prey? What and how would it hunt? How would it's prey have adapted to defend itself?". These are questions Cameron actually contemplated when designing the alien life on the Pandora planet.


Soooo.... From a Disney standpoint, The Avatar deal gives the imagineers access to a fully flesh out, visually interesting and exciting, mythical ecosystem upon which to work their magic. Instead of working on an "Avatarland" built around a movie narrative, They are able to focus on creating interesting stories and experiences of their own within the "Pandora" section of AK. Similar to how the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror was not based off a single Twilight Zone story, but used the Twilight Zone (Which BTW... Also not a Disney Property) to set the stage and mood of the attraction they designed, "Pandora" can be used to set the stage and atmosphere of a new set of stories and experiences for the guests. Even better, The alien Jungle with it's 'mythical animals' could fit in quite nicely with Animal Kingdom's existing look and feel.... especially with as lush as the Oasis and that side of Discovery Island already are. In My personal opinion, focusing on the so-so narrative of the first movie is the wrong way for both us as Disney fans, and Disney itself, to approach this whole deal.


And From a Guest standpoint, There are potentially several huge pluses for us with this deal. First off, The world of Pandora looked absolutely amazing at night with all the bio-luminescent plants and animals. Between liberal use of fiberoptic lighting effects, and even Disney's recent announcement of their plant-interface tech, Just imagine how amazing this area would be at night.....

Secondly... They have the land and ability to create for us another quality headliner attraction/ride within Animal Kingdom. I don't think anyone would complain about another attraction at the park, And it could even help flesh out the AK from the 1/2day park many believe it to be, to closer to a full day park. As an added bonus, With another major attraction in the park to draw people in and "eat the crowds", Disney may finally feel like they have enough breathing room to down Expedition Everest for an extended refurb to fix Betty the Yeti. (Currently, as what many see as being the only real headline ride in the park [outside the safari], It's harder to justify a months-long refurb to fix a show element that doesn't directly impact the ride's operation... and which many guests don't even realize isn't working properly).

And Third... Currently Animal Kingdom is the only park that routinely closes early. This is due to several factors including the lack of attractions or draws to the park once the animal based attractions need to start shutting down to allow them to care for the animals. With the Pandora section's wonderful nighttime lights, Disney would have something to help convince people to stay late. The plot is also much further from the majority of the animals, so between it's location, atmosphere, and new construction, it would allow Disney to finally add something that MANY MANY people think is lacking at the Animal Kingdom..... The Grand Finale show at the end of the day. While pyrotechnic effects can't be used due to the concern for the animal welfare (many animals don't handle fireworks/explosions well), It would provide an amazing setting for Disney to bring the East Coast a version of the World of Color show. (Complete with light-up ears! )


So here are several of my opinions on why Avatar may have been a good deal, and could turn out very well, and possibly even better than many other properties they could build a land off of. [at least, within the AK... which is the only park that really has the room for a major expansion like this].
I agree that Avatarland could be great without story line at all but by simply exploring the beauty of the place. Story line is not that simple, many see it as cry for nature, I personally see colonization as the main theme in this movie and this theme is not exactly parks friendly. So the only way to make it successful imo is to concentrate on beauty and world of Pandora, without bringing in politics. I wonder which direction story will go in future movies and would working with Disney actually affect it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #100
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Love avatar the movie it was visually stunning, love Disney. Together would be epic!
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:48 PM   #101
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Yup! I thought it was nothing special. Some stunning special effects (but others were better) and the same old tired story line....Bunch of Tree Huggers attacked by militarisitic uncaring coporations.....yawn. At least Pocohontas had some decent music!
Boy do I agree, I could never understand the hype??? when I wiggle in my seat and look at the time I know it was not a good movie...and when I heard Avatar land at Disney...WHAT were they thinking... this is great news...hope it gets cancelled...
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:07 PM   #102
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please come back Beastly Kingdomme
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:05 AM   #103
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You've probably heard this before, but if you've seen Pocahontas, you've seen Avatar. It really is the same movie, just set on a fictional planet.

And if you've seen Dances with Wolves, you've seen Pocahontas and Avatar.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:44 AM   #104
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Yeah!!!
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:58 AM   #105
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And if you've seen Dances with Wolves, you've seen Pocahontas and Avatar.
Oh that is too funny but sooooo right!!!!
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