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Old 09-06-2012, 12:12 PM   #76
wishing4PA
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I'm on the fence about Avatarland itself - I won't jump for joy at its (possible) demise, or cry, but it never really made much sense to me. Maybe I would like it, if I saw the movie, but I would really much rather they stuck to Disney movies if they're going to theme a land around a movie. Even though WWoHP looks awesome, I don't really think it would belong in WDW either.

The idea above of Australia-land would make more sense to me. Can you envision a backdrop of Sydney's opera house on one side, and Ayers Rock on the other? And who wouldn't want to eat as the fantastic new "barbie" TS restaurant I just made up? Although ... they should probably get the approval of the Aussie government and aboriginal leaders first.

Or Pirateland! Look how this could work:
- tropical themed, a lot of parrots, etc near entrance
- draw ideas from the south seas and caribbean
- lots of water for visual interest/cooling
- wouldn't need so many live fish, but perhaps a stingray petting area
- monkeys monkeys monkeys (live)
- swinging vine mini playground
- possible rides/attractions
crab theme (could work for an outdoor amusement park/Dumbo style ride
snake theme could work for a coaster
some specific spinoff ride from POTC movies (ignoring that they
are spun off from a ride themselves)
also base rides any other DISNEY movies that fit the tropical theme
- incorporate tropical colors, rainforest educational activities, etc.

The key is, they could create a whole new land based on any part of our real world and/or history, and do that while incorporating real world animals and Disney movies. Why, oh, why a fake world on a non-Disney intellectual property? (I'm okay with old fables and legends that are public domain and have stood up to the test of time.) So maybe I won't jump for joy about Avatar's demise, but I do think Disney could do better.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:21 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by fuzzlekins View Post
I keep seeing post after post from people who who are poo-pooing Avatarland. The overall vibe seems to be relief that they may be bagging it. Just an observation.
I think that could be in based in part on a couple factors.

1. The people here who are looking forward to the potential of the new Pandora area have started to get tired of posting in every thread on the "Avatarland sucks! It doesn't fit" genre of trying to get people to give something they don't know anything about a chance.

2. This is a Disney Fan Forum.... and just like there are a LARGE number of Hardcore Disney Fans who automatically badmouth or think less of the Universal parks because 'they aren't Disney', You will see a larger percentage of people posting here automatically thinking bad about the Pandora section of AK because 'It isn't Disney'.

3. In general, People are always MUCH more likely to complain about something then post something positive about it. It happens everywhere.

4. The people who are indifferent about the Pandora project or have yet to make up their mind about it due to he lack of any concrete details on it yet, Aren't likely to be spending time reading the Avatar rumor threads around here.

And Don't forget.... While the Disney fan community on sites like the DIS may be very vocal in their love of Disney and thoughts on all things Disney... We are still a very small percentage of the overall number of Disney Guests who annually visit the parks. Even if there is a majority of our Demographic which is against this idea, It doesn't mean that would translate into the larger group of people who go to Disney any given year. It also may not be indicative of the feelings of those who have yet to go to Disney....which might be the same demo Disney is trying to potentially interest in giving them a shot.


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Originally Posted by KellyNY View Post
1. AOA does provide new rooms, regardless for families or not. They also have regular rooms and what do you think will happen to all rooms released by larger families. No matter how you twist it, those are new rooms.

2. How do you know? It provided boost for Universal, more important it brought new people(HP fans), some of those who never even been to Universal. HP is a chance to get new customers and those customers could be with Disney, that is the point.

3. Was decrease as much as 30%? Granted it was slow right before HP, construction, some people were holding trips till grand opening but regardless, there was increase and significant and point is Disney could have it.

4. Who said anything about drop in Disney attendance because of HP? I am talking about lost opportunity to get more people and more profit.

5. Being biggest does not mean to relax and ignore competition and they actually don't. FLE was literally answer to HP and not successful answer, just something they came out with fast, without putting much in it.

6. Yes, they did offered discounts but year round like Disney those few years, free dining, GG, 5/2, kids free, do not even remember all of them but those few years probably nobody paid full price as you could almost always find some discount and according to boards, some people were and are going only because of it.

7. I did not say it happened all of the sudden so no, you will not see drop out of the blue. However, it is constantly happening, Disney ignoring teens and those who wants to see more wild rides and considering many families have both kinds of kids/members they do split stays, evident from this very board. If Disney payed more attention to this, they could keep this money.

8. I agree we did not see it but my point there is nothing new. I do not think there are many people who usually do not go to Disney and know princesses are there, thanks to all commercials, all of the sudden see there FLE and go, why? It is not something new like HP, it is old, same Disney princesses put together. Will attendance increase, yes it will, because just like with Universal, some were holding their trips for few years, but will new people come like for HP, not a chance.

With all being said, I believe Disney made a mistake with HP, maybe it would not be easy to work with JK, they would have to invest more then just building few meet and greets but benefit would be much greater and well worth it.
1. AoA may be new rooms, But I don't think those new rooms will translate into increased park attendance. AoA's new rooms target a demo which previously was forced to either rent multiple smaller rooms, or fork over MUCH more $$ for DVC Villas.....If they were staying onsite. Because of the costs of multiple smaller rooms, or DVC Villas, It's also much more likely that families of that size were staying offsite due to the lack of 'affordable' onsite options for their family. IMHO, I think AoA is intended more to try and fill a need within Disney's onsite options that was virtually unmet, instead of trying to attract new guests to the resort. The bonus is that by giving these families who have moved offsite due to the lack of 'affordable' rooms on property, not only does Disney regain their vacation hotel $$, but can also now utilize their existing tools to lock people into spending all their money onsite such as ME and Disney Transportation since these families won't be required to rent a car anymore to get from their hotel to the parks.... and therefor be tempted to eat offsite.

2. & 3. I honestly don't think that HP would've had the same impact at Disney that it did at Universal. Universal's numbers were extremely depressed for several years prior to HP's arrival. They definitely weren't growing as much as Disney or the general area's attendance numbers were growing. In many ways, for YEARS Universal has been in Disney's Shadow, and a large number of people either didn't even know it existed before arriving in Florida, or didn't think it was worth the time or money to give it a shot. For Universal, HP changed all that. With the Hype and Advertising surrounding HP's opening, MANY MANY more people learned that "Oh! There is a Universal Park in Orlando.... and it's not just a studio tour!". It also Gave people a reason to actually give the parks a chance.... including those hardcore Disney types who had their Disney blinders on when it came to anything non-disney in the Central Florida area. If you look at posts around the DIS over the past couple years, the the fact IOA isn't showing any signs of losing the gains it's made since WWoHP opened [and is continuing to show some gains], You can see that the WWoHP's biggest influence for Universal wasn't that it was a major show-stopper Must-see Attraction in and of itself (Although it is quite amazing), But that it helped the parks gain some exposure so they could poke their head out from behind Disney's Shadow.... And gave people a reason to see what they had to offer, which has resulted in their discovering they Universal offers a very good product that is much closer to the Disney style/quality of park experience than it is the Six Flags style/quality.

Disney may have had some smaller short-term gains from getting the WWoHP, but because of it's existing size, offerings, and notoriety by the public, It would not have had the same impact on the bottom line as WWoHP had at Universal. (And that's even Assuming that Disney created something comparable to what Universal did, which isn't a guarantee due to it's current management and recent track record. the Forbidden Journey attraction is also an evolution of the Spiderman Ride tech at Universal which is over 10yrs old now.... which Disney has yet to really show the desire and/or ability to offer something on the same level. Considering the flack the Voyage of the Little Mermaid is getting, Do you think WWoHP@Disney would have the same impact if it's signature attraction ended up being an omnimover ride thru of Hogwarts instead of the height/size restricted flying-bench mayhem that Universal anchored on?)


5. I'm still not convinced that the FLE is an actual "response" to Universal's WWoHP. When you get out from under the hype, FLE is an 'expansion' that fills 2 (or 3) needs that the Magic Kingdom had reasons to meet. With the Introduction of the DDP, the MK's lack of good TS restaurants has become much more apparent. FLE meets that need by adding another TS restaurant in the form of BoG. The MK is the only park that regularly has to deal with Capacity closures during the extremely busy holiday time periods. The FLE, and new attractions within, offer a significant increase in the number of guests the park can house, thereby allowing them to cram more people into the parks during those busy periods and possibly avoid the need for as many capacity closures. AND arguably..... Fantasyland is one of the most popular/iconic sections of the MK, and therefor is the most crowded land within the park for the majority of the day.... and it doesn't help that it's attractions are relatively low-capacity attractions. The Addition of an omnimover style attraction within Fantasyland will greatly help in 'eating' the Fantasyland crowds. Since these are all entirely self-serving reasons for Disney to greenlight and build the FLE, I really don't see a reason why it should be considered a 'response' to the WWoHP other than potentially the timing of constructions..... but even that likely is just a coincidence due to the lead time required for a major project and the advantages for Disney in building when the economy took a tumble.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:23 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by aznshents View Post
to you for supporting your arguments with solid evidence. Too many people on this board like to believe they know the reasons behind certain decisions and/or every single factor that goes into making big decisions such as theme park expansions.
Thanks.

To be fair, it's hard to do. It's not like we have complete access to all the data that would paint the full picture. We have dribs and drabs that come out via 3rd parties (TEA attendance figures), snippets in sec filings, or a couple lines in business magazines.

Then we have to connect the dots. And, I"m sure, sometimes the picture we get at the end isn't nearly the picture the dots were supposed to make.

But one thing we DO know: DISNEY does have all that data, and we know they look at it at an almost obsessive level. They're not always right (or don't appear to be...witness DCA 1.0), for sure. But they're right a lot more often than they get given credit for, via second guessing.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:27 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
I didn't say they weren't new rooms. I asked "what new rooms" and specifically addressed the only two possibilites. Neither of which is really there to try to lure NEW people to Orlando. They're designed to cater to people who are already coming and staying elsewhere.

The point was, if you re-read what I wrote, that those "new rooms" aren't designed to bring in new (as in, new visitors to Orlando) visitors. They were designed to cater to an under-serviced demographic (families of 5) in Disney's hotel offerings.




Because Disney walked away and didn't do it. If it had been, in their estimation, worthwhile....you'd have WWOHP at WDW.

Which is significantly more evidence than you have, actually.



No, but it was significant enough that 30% increases don't look nearly as impressive when taking them into account the declines. They are certainly seeing record attendance....but still less than AK or DHS does (by 2 million-ish guests...9.6 million-ish at AK or DHS vs 7.7 million at IOA), and those are widely considered half day/incomplete parks.


I'm not saying WWOHP hasn't worked for Universal. It has. But they NEEDED it, really. Disney didn't.

As evidenced by the continuing growth of the WDW parks attendance and the lack of any "slippage" as a result of WWOHP



How else would you measure your claim that people are doing "split stays" or that IOA is now making a significant differeance in the Orlando Tourism market? And your insistence they're some sort of "danger" to the way Disney is doing things?

So far, no quantifiable effect.



Again, how can you measure that FLE isn't successful when it hasn't opened yet. Answer is: You can't.

There are ways to continue to reinvest in your parks and not sign on to HP. Disney is doing it. The success of those investments...we'll have to wait and see. But they're not stagnating, so trying to argue that HP is/was their only option (or even the slam dunk, obvious, best option) is simply not true.



And Disney's bottom line actually got better, not worse. Interesting, no?

Universal offers their fare share of discounts, on their lodgings and the like, too. The difference is: They don't have the sheer amount of hotel rooms Disney does...nor do they have the sheer amount of demand that Disney does. You're going to hear a lot more about Disney Discounts with their tens of thousands of rooms vs Universal with it's few thousand-ish. Especially on Disney-centric boards.



But you'd see SOME drop. Incremental, minute, but it would exist. And it would continue to trend over time. So simply saying "it's constantly happening" doesn't prove anything. I'm sure it happens with SOME families. Obviously not enough to make much of a difference, though. Simply look at the numbers.

Anecdotal evidence of some families, on these boards, does not make it any sort of mass exodus.

Which means it's not enough to worry Disney.




In your opinion. But realize...it's just that.

We'll see if total attendance (meaning MK+AK+Epcot+DHS) increases in 2013...if it does, you'll know you were wrong.

What you need to realize is this: Disney does not care, so long as they are making more money than they were before FLE. I'll bet they will be.

The other problem with your point is this: You're basically saying Disney should do something else, that's not Disney, because it's new and not Disney. That's wrongheaded. Disney has built in marketing for their own stuff. They don't pay anyone else licensing fees, and they have complete creative control. It's the whole point behind having DISNEY parks. Yes, it's more princesses, etc. That's the point. And it seems to have worked quite well for them over the past 40-ish years, no?



All your opinion.

Disney obviously disagreed with you. After all their internal analysis, with all the data they have at their disposal, and with all those guest surveys they do...they didn't agree.

I'm inclined to think they had pretty good reasons for doing what they did.
The only reason Disney walked away or was it actually JK who walked away, is because Disney got a huge ego and they did got scared when Universal got HP contract and this is why they came out with FLE.
I think you getting me wrong, I am not suggesting that Disney suffers because of HP or that they needed it desperately, I suggest that HP turned to be a success bringing money and new customers and Disney could use it. There is no such thing as too much profit. Instead they got competition on their hands. Game changed, people go to Universal more while they could go to Disney.
The only way to prove that Disney made no mistake with HP, is to show that project turned to be lame and unsuccessful and no matter how you twist it, it is simply not true.
So all the talking about people spending more money, attendance goes up not even related to the fact that people could spend even more and attendance could be better filling those rooms already built and being built.
Universal simply showed those biggest gorillas that they can do things just as good. As for half day parks. Universal is compact, less walking, more hit rides, less fillers. You will do much more in half day at Universal then you will at Disney because rides are spread, because there are only that many popular rides in each park. Obviously you need more time for Disney but how much time you actually waste with all the transportation and walking? And having 4 parks is nice but 2 of them are half day parks and not because you can complete it in half day but because there is not much to do there. How many of us combine DHS and AK in one day and go there only to hit few rides. Disney got a lot of work to do with those 2 and with Universal breathing at their necks they better do it fast. Disney maybe be biggest but it is not a time to relax, there is a lot of competition going on and believe me they know, this is why they came out with Avatarland and we will see if they actually drop it or will be smart and create something great and well needed.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:36 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
the Forbidden Journey attraction is also an evolution of the Spiderman Ride tech at Universal which is over 10yrs old now.... which Disney has yet to really show the desire and/or ability to offer something on the same level. Considering the flack the Voyage of the Little Mermaid is getting, Do you think WWoHP@Disney would have the same impact if it's signature attraction ended up being an omnimover ride thru of Hogwarts instead of the height/size restricted flying-bench mayhem that Universal anchored on?)
First up...thanks for saying, in sum total, what I was trying to say...but phrasing it much better.

Second...also, I think Universal purchased exclusive rights to the K-arm tech used in Forbidden Journey. Maybe they don't do that if they don't get HP...but it's one more bit of evidence that Disney might not have been able to do (or willing to do) the same thing.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:53 PM   #81
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The only reason Disney walked away or was it actually JK who walked away, is because Disney got a huge ego and they did got scared when Universal got HP contract and this is why they came out with FLE.
JK talked to Disney first.
Disney tried to convince JK to make changes to her proposal.
She refused to consider their advice, BUT DID NOT WALK AWAY. Disney could have accepted her terms..and you'd have WWOHP at DHS.
They didn't. Thus, they walked.

That last bit...is in your opinion. Do you have anything to support it? That FLE was a reaction to WWOHP? Or that WWOHP "scares" them (because Iger, himself, says otherwise in a recent Bloomberg article).

Maybe it was...but I've seen nothing convincing me. I could be swayed either way.

Quote:
I think you getting me wrong, I am not suggesting that Disney suffers because of HP or that they needed it desperately, I suggest that HP turned to be a success bringing money and new customers and Disney could use it. There is no such thing as too much profit. Instead they got competition on their hands. Game changed, people go to Universal more while they could go to Disney.
No, I get you just fine.

But they're not going to Disney any less (and, actually, more).

Which is the only thing Disney really cares about.

The game didn't really change that much...at least not for Disney. Well, it got better (they're making more money)...but not the way you're implying.

If they're not suffering from it's loss...and didn't need it desperately....then you've basically just made my point. It likely wasn't worth it.

Quote:
The only way to prove that Disney made no mistake with HP, is to show that project turned to be lame and unsuccessful and no matter how you twist it, it is simply not true.
No, actually, it's not. Because you have no idea what form the Disney version of the project would have looked like.

You show the decision was a mistake, IN BUSINESS, by showing a negative effect..either on the projected bottom line or some other quantifiable. There just aren't any.

YOU, as a fan, can judge it however you want. But then you say just that.

Quote:
So all the talking about people spending more money, attendance goes up not even related to the fact that people could spend even more and attendance could be better filling those rooms already built and being built.
Because one is based in reality..which we have.

The other is a big game of "what if". And our game of "what if" is based on what little information we have at our disposal to play it. All of it shows Disney coming up roses.

DISNEY'S game of "what if", done during the negotiations, was fully informed. They decided it wasn't worth it.

Quote:
Universal simply showed those biggest gorillas that they can do things just as good. As for half day parks. Universal is compact, less walking, more hit rides, less fillers. You will do much more in half day at Universal then you will at Disney because rides are spread, because there are only that many popular rides in each park. Obviously you need more time for Disney but how much time you actually waste with all the transportation and walking? And having 4 parks is nice but 2 of them are half day parks and not because you can complete it in half day but because there is not much to do there. How many of us combine DHS and AK in one day and go there only to hit few rides. Disney got a lot of work to do with those 2 and with Universal breathing at their necks they better do it fast.
Breathing down their necks, how?

Not in terms of attendance.

Again, the two "flawed" Disney parks (which was what I was referring to when I was talking about 1/2 day parks) outdrew IOA by 2 million visitors EACH, in 2011. That's more than 25% more than IOA's total attendance.

That's not breathing down anyone's neck.

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Disney maybe be biggest but it is not a time to relax, there is a lot of competition going on and believe me they know, this is why they came out with Avatarland and we will see if they actually drop it or will be smart and create something great and well needed.
And they're not relaxing. They haven't been relaxing. There's no reason to think they're going to relax.

But not relaxing doesn't mean "needs HP". They've got plenty of other options, in house.


Edit: I think we're sufficiently far off topic of Avatarland, at this point. If you feel the need to respond...feel free to have the last word. I've more than made my point, IMHO.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
JK talked to Disney first.
Disney tried to convince JK to make changes to her proposal.
She refused to consider their advice, BUT DID NOT WALK AWAY. Disney could have accepted her terms..and you'd have WWOHP at DHS.
They didn't. Thus, they walked.

That last bit...is in your opinion. Do you have anything to support it? That FLE was a reaction to WWOHP? Or that WWOHP "scares" them (because Iger, himself, says otherwise in a recent Bloomberg article).

Maybe it was...but I've seen nothing convincing me. I could be swayed either way.



No, I get you just fine.

But they're not going to Disney any less (and, actually, more).

Which is the only thing Disney really cares about.

The game didn't really change that much...at least not for Disney. Well, it got better (they're making more money)...but not the way you're implying.

If they're not suffering from it's loss...and didn't need it desperately....then you've basically just made my point. It likely wasn't worth it.



No, actually, it's not. Because you have no idea what form the Disney version of the project would have looked like.

You show the decision was a mistake, IN BUSINESS, by showing a negative effect..either on the projected bottom line or some other quantifiable. There just aren't any.

YOU, as a fan, can judge it however you want. But then you say just that.



Because one is based in reality..which we have.

The other is a big game of "what if". And our game of "what if" is based on what little information we have at our disposal to play it. All of it shows Disney coming up roses.

DISNEY'S game of "what if", done during the negotiations, was fully informed. They decided it wasn't worth it.



Breathing down their necks, how?

Not in terms of attendance.

Again, the two "flawed" Disney parks (which was what I was referring to when I was talking about 1/2 day parks) outdrew IOA by 2 million visitors EACH, in 2011. That's more than 25% more than IOA's total attendance.

That's not breathing down anyone's neck.



And they're not relaxing. They haven't been relaxing. There's no reason to think they're going to relax.

But not relaxing doesn't mean "needs HP". They've got plenty of other options, in house.


Edit: I think we're sufficiently far off topic of Avatarland, at this point. If you feel the need to respond...feel free to have the last word. I've more than made my point, IMHO.
Considering how FLE was announced it is pretty clear to many, not just me it was the answer to HP and moreover it was attempt to get attention from HP project and Universal. You may be convinced that Disney made no mistake but it is your opinion vs. mine, do you really know how Disney feels about not getting all the benefits of HP? I guess not. And you do not need to have equal attendance numbers to have competition. Every $ that goes away from Disney or not going to Disney when it could, counts, why do you think they raise prices every year just a little bit, because they want profit. You seem to believe that Disney is the best of the best of the best and nothing can come close it. OK, it is your opinion. I believe they could do better and they lost opportunity and this is my opinion. You have just as much facts as I do. And we are not off topic as Avatarland situation is pretty much repeat of HP situation, I see it, you don't, and that is fine.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:55 PM   #83
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I think Universal gained significantly more from HP than Disney would have. I doubt that every guest from that 30% increase in attendance was new to Orlando. A imagine a good portion of them were Disney guests making day trips.

Disney may have seen a bigger increase in their attendance over the previous year if they had HP but even now, they don't seem to be suffering from the "loss".
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:14 PM   #84
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Something else to consider with the WWoHP thing and it's impact on Disney.

There are strong reports that Disney's attendance actually saw an increase when the WWoHP opened. This is something that makes perfect sense when you think about it.

Harry Potter has a HUGE following, including places outside the US. For all those European fans of the series, It may have been hard to justify a trip to the US to Visit Disney (especially with EuroDisney much closer) .... However, They were just as eager as everyone else to come see the Harry Potter park. Since they were making the ocean crossing anyways to see Harry Potter, It would be almost stupid to not also take the opportunity to check out the Disney parks. To a lesser extent, this also works for US based Harry Potter Fans who never felt the desire to make a trip to Florida for Disney.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:46 PM   #85
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Personally, I'm glad avatar land is being delayed. I hope it's cancelled altogether!! But animal kingdom needs something, anything!! Please!

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Old 09-06-2012, 08:25 PM   #86
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Personally, I'm glad avatar land is being delayed. I hope it's cancelled altogether!! But animal kingdom needs something, anything!! Please!

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Incorporate Nemo. Add a Eucalyptus Forest Trail with koalas, snakes, crocs, tree kangaroos, etc etc

Add a Flume ride maybe Croc Falls

Some entertainment like digeragoos
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Celebrating Disney's Animal Kingdom
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:04 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
I think that could be in based in part on a couple factors.

1. The people here who are looking forward to the potential of the new Pandora area have started to get tired of posting in every thread on the "Avatarland sucks! It doesn't fit" genre of trying to get people to give something they don't know anything about a chance.

2. This is a Disney Fan Forum.... and just like there are a LARGE number of Hardcore Disney Fans who automatically badmouth or think less of the Universal parks because 'they aren't Disney', You will see a larger percentage of people posting here automatically thinking bad about the Pandora section of AK because 'It isn't Disney'.

3. In general, People are always MUCH more likely to complain about something then post something positive about it. It happens everywhere.

4. The people who are indifferent about the Pandora project or have yet to make up their mind about it due to he lack of any concrete details on it yet, Aren't likely to be spending time reading the Avatar rumor threads around here.

And Don't forget.... While the Disney fan community on sites like the DIS may be very vocal in their love of Disney and thoughts on all things Disney... We are still a very small percentage of the overall number of Disney Guests who annually visit the parks. Even if there is a majority of our Demographic which is against this idea, It doesn't mean that would translate into the larger group of people who go to Disney any given year. It also may not be indicative of the feelings of those who have yet to go to Disney....which might be the same demo Disney is trying to potentially interest in giving them a shot.
Points taken, and I realize that Cameron is a good horse to bet on, but why bet at all? Why begin construction on a project that already has some doubt shadowing it, two more movies in the making that may or may not be hits (what if they're lousy?), and no real proven track record? Unlike Star Wars, Toy Story, and Harry Potter, Avatar hasn't proved anything but box office success. I seem to remember seeing a lot of Avatar products in clearance bins. Fifty Shades of Grey is the biggest selling book of all time but I wouldn't recommend making a Disney theme area around it. If there are viable options out there with proven track records, why go with a gamble? And by viable with proven track records, I mean sustained popularity, rabid fans, and the ability to move merchandise. If the cartoon based attractions are what pull in the small children and they're looking to capture a different market, then I still think Star Wars is a strong candidate. Grown men in their 40s and 50s would go to Disney for a SW land. A well done technologically advanced space theme would likely appeal to teens as well. Aside from the thematic elements that could really appeal to everyone, getting the teen demo is in the coasters. They need to incorporate a good coaster no matter what.

I'm not a die-hard Disney fan or Universal fan - I'm a newbie compared to most here. I love Disney but didn't visit until I was 39 and my daughter was 3. I visited both Universal parks on the same trip. I visited Disney & IOA on my second trip. I would've skipped IOA on my upcoming trip but we're spending a day there. Why? Because my 42 yr old husband and 5 yr old daughter both insist on visiting the WWOHP. Neither is interested in an Avatarland. Both would want to go to a Star Wars land or Cars land. Hmmmm.

We're just one family and this is all just my opinion. But I am speaking from a business woman's perspective rather than a die hard Disney traditionalist or groupie or whatever. In the end, I think Disney does amazing work with virtually everything they do. I'll check out whatever they throw out there. The only issue will be how quickly I rush back and how much it draws in the "new" crowd other people claim they're looking for.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:20 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by MJMcBride

Australia

Incorporate Nemo. Add a Eucalyptus Forest Trail with koalas, snakes, crocs, tree kangaroos, etc etc

Add a Flume ride maybe Croc Falls

Some entertainment like digeragoos
Or something pocohantas like a canoe ride!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:22 PM   #89
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KellyNY: I see your point and mostly agree. I don't necessarily think that FLE was in response to WWOHP. I think (and I really mean think - I have nothing factual to base it on) Disney just recognized a deficiency and an opportunity and developed it. Princesses are huge! I'd be willing to bet princesses sell more than the mouse (movie and merchandising wise). Walk around Disney and you can't miss all the princess gowns on the little girls - those girls are there for the princesses. That's why there's a Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique and Cinderella's Royal Table in the mouse's house (so to speak). I don't think they could go wrong by devoting more park to the princesses.

As for HP - I absolutely think that's a lost opportunity for Disney. Are they hurting for it? Clearly not, but I don't know how anyone could question it being a lost opportunity. I've seen articles touting what a massive impact by theme park stds WWOHP had on IOA. Universal clearly gets that b/c they're building it in CA and adding on in FL. And they did it all after HP was virtually "over" from a book perspective. But the track record, the cult following, the merchandising, and the classic status was there. No wonder it was and still is huge. I would have loved to have seen it at Disney but oh well. I also don't think Universal and Disney are direct competition. Most families that I know with small children are spending all or the bulk of their time in Orlando at Disney parks. They may spend a day at Universal. Families I know with older kids might spend a day at MK or Epcot but spend most of their time at Universal. I think they'll only potentially be in direct competition if one aggressively goes after the other's market. But for now, they seem like completely different animals to me. One likely helps the other b/c if you're in the neighborhood, it's not hard to visit both.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:42 PM   #90
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I haven't seen Avatar, really have no interest, so I'm really not sad to hear that a land for it in AK may be shelved. I just feel like Disney has a lot of it's own stories and ideas that would convey the same message as an Avatarland would, while keeping it tied to our own planet that needs our help. Heck, conservation of the Earth plus outer space also equals Wall-E!

I really wish Disney had more stories developed that take place in South America; the rainforest setting would be perfect, a real world Pandora, and a place that has ties to major needs and movements of conservation. Not to mention a ton of very interesting animals! We do have Up, though; great opportunity for a Meet & Greet, and some sort of balloon ride or a tour of Carl and Ellie's house like Minnie and Mickey's were in Toontown fair. Not sure if that's substantial enough for a new land, but it could be really interesting.

I do also think Australia would be a great addition to AK, especially with the talk that they were thinking of moving FotLK over to Africa for the Avatar expansion. If they're willing to do that they could then do some remodeling of that show's pavilion, and scoot Finding Nemo: The Musical in there with it's new land. Then add some hands-on sea life exhibits, koala's and fuzzy friends etc. as animal attractions, Nigel's Pelican Rides (similar to Dumbo, maybe) and maybe even an East Australian Current-themed coaster to pull in more thrill seekers. Definitely put in some aboriginal cultural information/experience, which would involve woking with the tribes in Australia, of course. And of course, a BBQ restaurant! You could even throw in some Rescuers Down Under references (though it's not a big enough movie to really do anything major); I think a Bernard and Bianca's TS restaurant would be so cute.

I have so many ideas now, haha. It's days like this when I wish I worked as an Imagineer so I could pitch stuff like this and see what the Disney people thought. Ah well, maybe someday, if I'm lucky
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