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Old 09-02-2012, 07:11 AM   #46
pilferk
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Originally Posted by OrangeCountyCommuter View Post
I read your post. You appeared to be saying that since you know what things cost you think the airlines are ripping you off.....

Of course that rip off would be why they are constantly in bankruptcy.
See...I took it to mean:

I know what all that stuff costs, and I know what is left over in my budget after paying for that stuff...so this is my price point.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, too.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:04 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
See the bolded part, above. There's your answer.

Leisure flight is not a necessity. It's not like a car (which, for most folks not living in an urban setting, is). It's not like groceries. There are alternatives, both in where we travel, and how we travel.

Every consumer can set what they think is an affordable price point to enter the market. The airline will either meet that, and get the business, or won't. If they fail to capture enough people...they close (or get a big fat bailout...don't get me started).

It costs me about $700 to drive from NW CT to Orlando, for my family of 5. That's at $4 a gallon in gas, hotel stays each way, and food. I'm willing to pay something for the convenience of flying. What that convenience is varies from year to year and trip to trip (as does the price of gas, and, to some extent, the size of our traveling party). As a consumer, I make the judgement in terms of value in any given year.

Sometimes we fly, usually we drive.

Now, as a single consumer, I recognize my teeny tiny bit of "feedback", by not flying, isn't going to accomplish a thing. But that doesn't mean I should adjust my price point simply because the airline has higher costs. Because their REASONING for higher fares doesn't matter to me. And there's no reason it should.
But why not the same point of view for gas prices? You've adjusted your price point for gasoline. It's up 300% in the last twelve years.

Additional calculations not in your equation of driving vs flying are time - about 30+ hours' extra time - and wear & tear/depreciation on one's personal vehicle.
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by kaytieeldr View Post
But why not the same point of view for gas prices? You've adjusted your price point for gasoline. It's up 300% in the last twelve years.

Additional calculations not in your equation of driving vs flying are time - about 30+ hours' extra time - and wear & tear/depreciation on one's personal vehicle.
I do have the same view on gas. We buy less, and drive more fuel efficient cars, than we did 10 years ago. But I cant refuse to buy gas. I have to get to work, the grocery store, etc. I do not HAVE to go to WDW.

In my description....I said the convenience has some value. Part of the convenience is time. Every consumer has to determine what its worth. It migt be worth 500 to me. It might be worth 200 to someone else.

Gas is figured in when I make the comparison. I said as much. That 700 includes gas at $4 per gallon (more than it is now). When it goes up, my comparison price goes up...so logically so would the price at which I am willing to enter the leisure flight market....or just choose not to travel. As I clearly said, the evaluation is made year to year and trip to trip.

Wear and tear is considered, if not costed out (largely because its a moving target). Its value is not close to the difference in costs....either in one time costs or opportunity costs.
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:53 PM   #49
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I know gas is in your calculations. I was using it separately, as an example of a consumer good that's quadrupled in price in the same period where a non-necessity has increased about 40% on average.

Average price for a movie ticket in 2000 was $5.06; this year, it's $8.12. Even that's a higher percent increase than the typical plane ticket in that period. You don't want to pay it? Great, don't. Drive. Twenty+ hours in a car or thirty plus hours on a train is well beyond my breaking-even point.

Yes, I expect good value for my dollar. That's why I'm paying jetBlue $100 more (at purchase time) than the lowest published fare for an upcoming trip.
No charge to select my seat (vs $6-$? x 2)
No charge to check the one bag I'll need (vs $28 x 2)
No changing planes (five hour flight each way vs 7-11 hours)
For a "premium" of $16 each way, I'm flying the only airline that offers nonstop service between my city pair, and getting its standard extra pitch seating.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:58 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by kaytieeldr View Post
I know gas is in your calculations. I was using it separately, as an example of a consumer good that's quadrupled in price in the same period where a non-necessity has increased about 40% on average.

Average price for a movie ticket in 2000 was $5.06; this year, it's $8.12. Even that's a higher percent increase than the typical plane ticket in that period. You don't want to pay it? Great, don't. Drive. Twenty+ hours in a car or thirty plus hours on a train is well beyond my breaking-even point.

Yes, I expect good value for my dollar. That's why I'm paying jetBlue $100 more (at purchase time) than the lowest published fare for an upcoming trip.
No charge to select my seat (vs $6-$? x 2)
No charge to check the one bag I'll need (vs $28 x 2)
No changing planes (five hour flight each way vs 7-11 hours)
For a "premium" of $16 each way, I'm flying the only airline that offers nonstop service between my city pair, and getting its standard extra pitch seating.
But its a bad analogy...because gas, by and large, is a lot more necessary than leisure flight.

Movies isnt a bad one...but then, it proves my point. While revenues increase, overall attendance has drastically decreased over the last ten to fifteen years. My wife and I used to go to the movies a lot. Now, we wait and buy them on disc...for the price of a couple admissions...we own it. Thats largely due to the ticket price increase, for us.

And no one is saying you shouldnt fly. Its your money...your budget. Im not going to say your definition of value is wrong, but you cant tell me mine is wrong, either. I dont just set a random ceiling for price...its just as well thought out a valuation as yours is. We just come to different decisions. Saying I wouldnt pay it isnt the same as saying YOU shouldnt.

Likewise, its my money...my budget. Its my place to figure out what constitutes value, a realustic price within my budget, and what MY best options are. You point out driving would push you beyond your breaking even point. That doesnt mean you cant...it means you REALLY dont want to/dont see the value. So the premium is woth it to you. I dont mind the drive and neither does my family...our out of pocket cost are MUCH less, usually...all that gets taken into account when I/we make tha assesment for our trip.

Just like I wont tell you you are overspending....not really your place to define someone elses definition of value, realistic price (for them), etc. In other words...seemingly exactly the issue you point out in your post.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:11 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilferk
Likewise, its my money...my budget. Its my place to figure out what constitutes value, a realustic price within my budget, and what MY best options are.
Right! It's your money, your budget, your discretion, your decision! You have a price over which you won't pay for air tickets. That's fine. But that doesn't mean the airlines have to sell tickets at a loss to get your business. The more you do that, the faster you go out of business.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:24 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaytieeldr View Post
Right! It's your money, your budget, your discretion, your decision! You have a price over which you won't pay for air tickets. That's fine. But that doesn't mean the airlines have to sell tickets at a loss to get your business. The more you do that, the faster you go out of business.
And no one ever suggested, when I first replied to you...and I have not suggested since, that they should.

What I said was...the airline can choose to meet my price point or not get my business. If enough consumers feel as I do...the airline fails. Which, in a nutshell...is exactly what you just posted.

There is a fundamental difference between "I wont pay", and "They should sell".

Which has been my point. You would have been dead on IF wish upon a star had, originally said the airlines should charge exactly what they want to pay. But thats not what was said. Wish upon a star simply stated what their price point was (and wasnt).
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:52 AM   #53
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Set up flight alerts on Kayak, Airfarewatchdog, etc. As soon as they drop to a good price or a price you're comfortable paying, book! For our flights in October I was able to snag $87 on Southwest from MDW to MCO and then $85 returning on United (MCO to ORD). Those flights after those flash sales (the sales only lasted one day each) are now $160 and $262 respectively.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #54
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who'da thunk?

I was able to save another $10 on DD's flight back to MCO on 9/27. Total RT for her MCO-BDL-MCO 9/20 to 9/27 is now $177 started out at $218 and has been as high as $345. As I posted as couple pages ago, you gotta look every day!
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:27 AM   #55
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I've been watching for our trip this January and was secretly hoping to get a great deal since it's off season travel!

We fly out of Bloomington-Normal, Illinois. Frontier and Allegiant both have non-stop flights. We booked Bay Lake Tower through RCI and decided to add on two nights in a Cars family suite at Art of Animation. It's my daughter's favorite movie and we're going for her fifth birthday.

Frontier flies on Fridays and the flight time is great. They also will offer us free baggage under my husband's ticket because he is military. Flights went down yesterday and they have a 5% promo code so after taxes it is $114 a person (one way).

They don't fly back nonstop on Sundays (last day of vacation), but Allegiant does. We're renting a car so dropping off at Sanford won't be a problem. They dropped their prices today to $104 a person plus $20 in bags per person. I think we'd need 3 suitcases. So, now I need to decide if $234 per person for non-stop roundtrip is the best I'm going to get at this time. It doesn't look like any of the seats are occupied on the Allegiant flight right now.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:52 AM   #56
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Quote:
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I've been watching for our trip this January and was secretly hoping to get a great deal since it's off season travel!

We fly out of Bloomington-Normal, Illinois. Frontier and Allegiant both have non-stop flights. We booked Bay Lake Tower through RCI and decided to add on two nights in a Cars family suite at Art of Animation. It's my daughter's favorite movie and we're going for her fifth birthday.

Frontier flies on Fridays and the flight time is great. They also will offer us free baggage under my husband's ticket because he is military. Flights went down yesterday and they have a 5% promo code so after taxes it is $114 a person (one way).

They don't fly back nonstop on Sundays (last day of vacation), but Allegiant does. We're renting a car so dropping off at Sanford won't be a problem. They dropped their prices today to $104 a person plus $20 in bags per person. I think we'd need 3 suitcases. So, now I need to decide if $234 per person for non-stop roundtrip is the best I'm going to get at this time. It doesn't look like any of the seats are occupied on the Allegiant flight right now.

Any thoughts?
I don't know if you'll find anything lower, but I sure miss AirTran out of BMI!
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:25 AM   #57
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I agree!! I signed up for the SWA rewards card while it was 50,000 free rewards that will hopefully cover the costs. I almost fell backwards when I saw our RT tickets @ $ 400+.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:43 PM   #58
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I don't know if you'll find anything lower, but I sure miss AirTran out of BMI!
Hi, Nancy! I was hoping you'd chime in. I really miss Air Tran, too. I don't mind Frontier, but I wish they had nonstop more days of the week.

Have you been watching prices? We flew BMI to SFB (Sanford) this July for $533 including two checked bags on Allegient. I was thrilled with $177 per person. I just don't know if I want to pay $169 more for January flights.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #59
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Most of the major airlines have gone into bankruptcy protection the past few years, some have made it through and some not. American is in bankruptcy right now. So dropping prices isn't going to make them profitable. They've learned to increase prices to a level that is profitable and cut the number of flights to make the flights they do operate as full as possible.

People will say "I don't understand why they cut the flight when it was always full". A full flight at a fare too low to make a profit doesn't make sense, so they cancel it. That usually happens when there is competition from another airline that is pushing prices down, so they just walk away rather than lose money. Plus the mergers have eliminated some of the competition so they can now push prices up.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:15 PM   #60
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I just paid $362 a piece for our flights. I've been tracking them almost daily for a few months and this seems to be the cheapest price for them. So I went ahead and booked them today. I've seen our flights for as high as $496 a piece. I still have all of my old flight confirmations in the Vacations folder of my email. The first time I flew (9-10-2001) we paid $172.76 a piece round trip.
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