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Old 08-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #61
utterrandomness
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There's a real catch 22 going on here in terms of accessibility. If the driver has to/does kick people out of those seats every time there's person with a scooter or a wheelchair, people with invisible disabilities and people with other mobility devices (canes, crutches, walkers etc) kind of get screwed over. If there is nowhere else to sit, and it's rude to ask people to move (as per previous discussions on this board), then those people have to get off the bus and wait for another one or risk injury and pain standing. It's a classic case of one person's access being another person's barrier.

I don't know if there is much that Disney can do to fix this problem, except perhaps designate more seats for people with disabilities. The city buses in Vancouver have addressed this issue by having more seating available in the priority seating section, as pictured below.

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Old 08-15-2012, 11:19 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by utterrandomness
There's a real catch 22 going on here in terms of accessibility. If the driver has to/does kick people out of those seats every time there's person with a scooter or a wheelchair, people with invisible disabilities and people with other mobility devices (canes, crutches, walkers etc) kind of get screwed over. If there is nowhere else to sit, and it's rude to ask people to move (as per previous discussions on this board), then those people have to get off the bus and wait for another one or risk injury and pain standing. It's a classic case of one person's access being another person's barrier.

I don't know if there is much that Disney can do to fix this problem, except perhaps designate more seats for people with disabilities. The city buses in Vancouver have addressed this issue by having more seating available in the priority seating section, as pictured below.
I was going to post asking I'd Disney would remove the seats or do what in the pic and only te driver can lower them.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:04 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by disney david View Post
I was going to post asking I'd Disney would remove the seats or do what in the pic and only te driver can lower them.
Then what happens to people with mobility issues that don't use wheelchairs or scooters? Where will they sit if the priority seating is only for wheelchairs to the point where there are no seats?
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #64
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Then what happens to people with mobility issues that don't use wheelchairs or scooters? Where will they sit if the priority seating is only for wheelchairs to the point where there are no seats?
There is priority seating for those with mobility issues at the front of the bus. Those seats are separate than the fold down seats that are at the middle of the bus for the wheelchair tie down spots.

The problem occurs when people think that the tie down spots are general purpose mobility issue spots. They are 2 different things in the signage and in the ADA regulations. Disney provides different seats for both issues.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:23 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by utterrandomness

Then what happens to people with mobility issues that don't use wheelchairs or scooters? Where will they sit if the priority seating is only for wheelchairs to the point where there are no seats?
They have the other seats that don't have te tie down points I know their bit going to remove them the better option is to keep them up. And have a way that the driver the only one that can lower them do they can keep a better eye on them and make sure all guest in wheelchair have a better chance to get on the bus. If a guest needed them then they could ask the driver to lower them to keep the rude people out of them. It will also give people a better clue that those seats are meant for guest in wheelchairs.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:25 PM   #66
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I'm so sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you feel no one at Disney is listening to you...

I too, had transportation issues while I was there...specifically leaving the MK in the evening. The same poor souls (CMs) saw me evening after evening. And we kept having the same problem repeat itself. I asked the transportation CMs working there how do we fix this problem. I didn't yell at anyone, raise my voice even, I kind of almost laughed because I couldn't believe how ridiculous this situation was and I knew it wasn't their fault at all...they were as frustrated as I was. They actually gave me a little phamplet that had LOADS of phone #'s in it that is only supposed to be given to CMs and told me to call a particular extension on this phamplet from my room because it would only work on property (because it was an extension not a full phone number) but it would connect me to the head of transportation. I had to laugh when I looked at this thing because it had VP's voice mail's phone #'s and all kinds of good phone #'s on it!!
Anyway, it was very frustrating the new way they are handling loading from MK. I had to wait for multiple buses to leave and it wasn't reasonable when I was AT THE FRONT of the line!!! But Mears buses aren't allowed to handle us. and then they double parked the next bus so that one couldn't load either... and they sent both of them out 1/2 full... So what was the point?? and they still had to bring in ANOTHER bus? This was only one of multiple loading issues I encountered at MK...I definitely learned patience there! I mean, I never got upset with the CM's working there, actually, I had some lovely conversations with them because it always seemed to be the same ones and I know it's NOT their fault! But the HIGHER UPS in transportation really need to re-evaluate the way they have told them to do this 'new system' as it is quite flawed!! I guess what it might mean for us is accepting that on busy nights we might have to be willing to be split from the rest of our party and limit the # of people...since they claim that abuse was such an issue. You can bring say 2 or 3 people with you but at park closing, you can't bring all 10 with you. The rest will have to get into the regular line. Apparently, the complaints are what caused the drastic changes to the policy. Everyone else complaining how scooters where coming up at the last minute and then bringing a dozen people onto the bus with them while everyone else had to wait in the regular line which I would understand why that would frustrate people. But when you are on an EVC and get passed up by bus after bus...well then maybe they could see how it feels to be on the other side of the fence.....
What seems to be happening at MK is if you are in an ECV, PWC or wheelchair unless you are first in line you are asked to wait for a second bus. I was second in line and was pushed off to wait for the next bus and all those without PWC were loaded on the bus and sent on the way leaving me to wait alone for the next bus. I was not pleased at all. This is not equal access at all. Since I was travelling alone there was no issue with having people accompany. It was just me. It was not a full bus by any means either but I was required to wait. It really makes me feel I am being discriminated against when this happens.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:36 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Talking Hands

What seems to be happening at MK is if you are in an ECV, PWC or wheelchair unless you are first in line you are asked to wait for a second bus. I was second in line and was pushed off to wait for the next bus and all those without PWC were loaded on the bus and sent on the way leaving me to wait alone for the next bus. I was not pleased at all. This is not equal access at all. Since I was travelling alone there was no issue with having people accompany. It was just me. It was not a full bus by any means either but I was required to wait. It really makes me feel I am being discriminated against when this happens.
I think what happening is at mk when it park closing or close and they start to get very busy they switch into get everyone out of their. So when the drivers who are under a kit of pressure from Disney and guests try to load as many people as they can and not realize guest in wheelchairs are as if not more important to get on.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:03 PM   #68
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What seems to be happening at MK is if you are in an ECV, PWC or wheelchair unless you are first in line you are asked to wait for a second bus. I was second in line and was pushed off to wait for the next bus and all those without PWC were loaded on the bus and sent on the way leaving me to wait alone for the next bus. I was not pleased at all. This is not equal access at all. Since I was travelling alone there was no issue with having people accompany. It was just me. It was not a full bus by any means either but I was required to wait. It really makes me feel I am being discriminated against when this happens.
That's is just out and out WRONG! It was evident that you would have clearly made it on that bus if you were an 'able bodied' Guest so you clearly should have been loaded!
I experienced Multiple similar sitiuations at the MK. Sometimes, I was alone and sometimes I had DD with me (my only travel companion). I once had to wait for the FOURTH bus and they sent two of the three other buses out only partially full. Part of the problem is at park closing the are using Mears buses as fillers and they are not allowed to handle EVCs and sometimes dispatch is sending a Mears bus and that didn't help!
This new system really needs revamping...

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I think what happening is at mk when it park closing or close and they start to get very busy they switch into get everyone out of their. So when the drivers who are under a kit of pressure from Disney and guests try to load as many people as they can and not realize guest in wheelchairs are as if not more important to get on.


I think what will help if they set up a booth at night and every guest check in that in a wheelchair so they could factor that in to dispatch so they know they need more buses at let's say boardwalk because their three waiting. Instead of looking at how full the que is to send more buses to. I know some my not like it and think It be unfair but I think if it get them better service it be better then having to wait for more buses then you should.
I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you are trying to suggest they do to fix the problem?
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:47 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by stitchlovestink
That's is just out and out WRONG! It was evident that you would have clearly made it on that bus if you were an 'able bodied' Guest so you clearly should have been loaded!
I experienced Multiple similar sitiuations at the MK. Sometimes, I was alone and sometimes I had DD with me (my only travel companion). I once had to wait for the FOURTH bus and they sent two of the three other buses out only partially full. Part of the problem is at park closing the are using Mears buses as fillers and they are not allowed to handle EVCs and sometimes dispatch is sending a Mears bus and that didn't help!
This new system really needs revamping...

I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you are trying to suggest they do to fix the problem?
I was suggesting them set up a booth at the entrance of the bus stop with cms that could find out which stop you need and then relay it to dispatch. So they get a better understanding of how many buses they need. Right now they are computer dispatched and at night they sit in a van bus pulls up they tell them where to go based on how many guest are in the que. but don't take into consideration wheelchairs and ecv. For example they see pop bus stop full and huge line they may send three buses to try and clear but board walk not as full but three ECvs since they don't know they only dispatch one bus sending other to more crowed stops but if they knew they could send more accordingly. The only thing is if a guest after checking in decides to go to another stop. Their really no one answer fix because Disney caught in the middle trying to please everyone because for years and years they get complaints from the other side and still do.

Sorry it dose not make sense sometimes things sound better in my head and have a hard time getting it out
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:51 PM   #70
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I was suggesting them set up a booth at the entrance of the bus stop with cms that could find out which stop you need and then relay it to dispatch. So they get a better understanding of how many buses they need. Right now they are computer dispatched and at night they sit in a van bus pulls up they tell them where to go based on how many guest are in the que. but don't take into consideration wheelchairs and ecv. For example they see pop bus stop full and huge line they may send three buses to try and clear but board walk not as full but three ECvs since they don't know they only dispatch one bus sending other to more crowed stops but if they knew they could send more accordingly. The only thing is if a guest after checking in decides to go to another stop. Their really no one answer fix because Disney caught in the middle trying to please everyone because for years and years they get complaints from the other side and still do.

Sorry it dose not make sense sometimes things sound better in my head and have a hard time getting it out
Okay, that is not how I experienced things when I was there just about 3 weeks ago. I was staying at POP. And in the evening close to closing time there were ALWAYS CMs (two and sometimes three) at the bus stop directing the flow of guests at the queue, thru the queue and onto the buses... They were the ones telling me and others where to wait and radioing for backup buses. THEY were the ones who discussed with me how flawed this loading system was, they were the ones who gave me the phone number to call to voice my concerns.

I'm not saying that there isn't somebody sitting in a van somewhere dispatching too, but at the bus stop I was at, there were ACTUAL People there working crowd control. They were the ones who told me that the other guests were complaining about the ECVs rolling up at the last minute getting loaded first and then bringing upwards of 10 guests with them and it was infuriating the other people in line. Well, I could understand that upsetting other people! That's why I stated in an earlier post that after a few people, the rest of the party should need to go to the regular queue. Honestly, it is only fair, and your are going BACK to the resort. You will all get to the resort within a short time of one another. The CM's were saying when they loaded the 2 ECVs and then their parties sometimes all the seats were pretty much taken and it was already at a standing room only... Well no wonder they were getting complaints. I guess IMO I would say cap it at no more than 4 or 2 adults (one on the ECV plus the companion plus minor children)...but not the entire entended family of auntie/uncle/nieces/nephews...if there's that many you need to split up and meet back at the hotel. You certainly aren't all staying in the same room!! If people would have been reasonable in their expectations and maybe not used things inappropriately it might not have reached this level of problematic issue...but again that is JMHO....that comment is not pointing fingers at anyone one inparticular here on the boards but just people at WDW who don't use the transportation system in a fair/reasonable manner. Such as the family we saw board the bus thru the back door w/ 12 family members...granted, the bus driver allowed it but they should have been in the regular queue, imo...I think it reflects poorly on those who are disabled and use the system appropriately and the way in which it was intended...
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:02 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by stitchlovestink

Okay, that is not how I experienced things when I was there just about 3 weeks ago. I was staying at POP. And in the evening close to closing time there were ALWAYS CMs (two and sometimes three) at the bus stop directing the flow of guests at the queue, thru the queue and onto the buses... They were the ones telling me and others where to wait and radioing for backup buses. THEY were the ones who discussed with me how flawed this loading system was, they were the ones who gave me the phone number to call to voice my concerns.

I'm not saying that there isn't somebody sitting in a van somewhere dispatching too, but at the bus stop I was at, there were ACTUAL People there working crowd control. They were the ones who told me that the other guests were complaining about the ECVs rolling up at the last minute getting loaded first and then bringing upwards of 10 guests with them and it was infuriating the other people in line. Well, I could understand that upsetting other people! That's why I stated in an earlier post that after a few people, the rest of the party should need to go to the regular queue. Honestly, it is only fair, and your are going BACK to the resort. You will all get to the resort within a short time of one another. The CM's were saying when they loaded the 2 ECVs and then their parties sometimes all the seats were pretty much taken and it was already at a standing room only... Well no wonder they were getting complaints. I guess IMO I would say cap it at no more than 4 or 2 adults (one on the ECV plus the companion plus minor children)...but not the entire entended family of auntie/uncle/nieces/nephews...if there's that many you need to split up and meet back at the hotel. You certainly aren't all staying in the same room!! If people would have been reasonable in their expectations and maybe not used things inappropriately it might not have reached this level of problematic issue...but again that is JMHO....that comment is not pointing fingers at anyone one inparticular here on the boards but just people at WDW who don't use the transportation system in a fair/reasonable manner. Such as the family we saw board the bus thru the back door w/ 12 family members...granted, the bus driver allowed it but they should have been in the regular queue, imo...I think it reflects poorly on those who are disabled and use the system appropriately and the way in which it was intended...
Thanks that means they are trying to work on making the dispatch system because every time I walking back ti cr their either a van suv or a cm telling drivers where to go. So they must be radioing to them so they can tell the sriver where to go. I like that their out on the stops because it get them a better chance to get more buses to the right place. As for the drivers well some are bad apples and need to be retrained or removed but others that mean well are just under a lot of pressure to get as many guest on the bus as they can. But still no excuse for telling any guest to wait for the next bus when it their turn it sounds like they need more supervisor doing ride alongs to check on their drivers.


Thanks for the update and sorry that happened to you. That also why they came up with no more then six per wheelchair and ecv load the rest must wait in the main que.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:33 PM   #72
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Quote:

Originally Posted by stitchlovestink


Okay, that is not how I experienced things when I was there just about 3 weeks ago. I was staying at POP. And in the evening close to closing time there were ALWAYS CMs (two and sometimes three) at the bus stop directing the flow of guests at the queue, thru the queue and onto the buses... They were the ones telling me and others where to wait and radioing for backup buses. THEY were the ones who discussed with me how flawed this loading system was, they were the ones who gave me the phone number to call to voice my concerns.

I'm not saying that there isn't somebody sitting in a van somewhere dispatching too, but at the bus stop I was at, there were ACTUAL People there working crowd control. They were the ones who told me that the other guests were complaining about the ECVs rolling up at the last minute getting loaded first and then bringing upwards of 10 guests with them and it was infuriating the other people in line. Well, I could understand that upsetting other people! That's why I stated in an earlier post that after a few people, the rest of the party should need to go to the regular queue. Honestly, it is only fair, and your are going BACK to the resort. You will all get to the resort within a short time of one another. The CM's were saying when they loaded the 2 ECVs and then their parties sometimes all the seats were pretty much taken and it was already at a standing room only... Well no wonder they were getting complaints. I guess IMO I would say cap it at no more than 4 or 2 adults (one on the ECV plus the companion plus minor children)...but not the entire entended family of auntie/uncle/nieces/nephews...if there's that many you need to split up and meet back at the hotel. You certainly aren't all staying in the same room!! If people would have been reasonable in their expectations and maybe not used things inappropriately it might not have reached this level of problematic issue...but again that is JMHO....that comment is not pointing fingers at anyone one inparticular here on the boards but just people at WDW who don't use the transportation system in a fair/reasonable manner. Such as the family we saw board the bus thru the back door w/ 12 family members...granted, the bus driver allowed it but they should have been in the regular queue, imo...I think it reflects poorly on those who are disabled and use the system appropriately and the way in which it was intended...

Thanks that means they are trying to work on making the dispatch system because every time I walking back ti cr their either a van suv or a cm telling drivers where to go. So they must be radioing to them so they can tell the sriver where to go. I like that their out on the stops because it get them a better chance to get more buses to the right place. As for the drivers well some are bad apples and need to be retrained or removed but others that mean well are just under a lot of pressure to get as many guest on the bus as they can. But still no excuse for telling any guest to wait for the next bus when it their turn it sounds like they need more supervisor doing ride alongs to check on their drivers.


Thanks for the update and sorry that happened to you. That also why they came up with no more then six per wheelchair and ecv load the rest must wait in the main que.
The issue is it's not fixing the problem because when they radio in a bus and its not a disney bus but a Mears bus filling in...that doesn't help. Since Mears buses aren't allowed to handle WCs or ECVs, it really hasn't done anything but upset the disabled individual because they get to see yet ANOTHER bus come & go that they cannot board. So there are still some serious flaws in this system. And for example one night, they radioed for a Disney bus because the one that was there was a Mears...and the Disney one arrived only to double park!! Well what good did that do??!! It couldn't load any ECVs. LOL So then they had to call in yet another! The CMs & I laughed about it because I found no point in getting angry. It was what it was and it certainly wasn't the immediate CMs' fault! I think that is why they gave me the phone # because I was also trying to help them make their jobs better. It's definitely needs some serious tweeking but they are going to have to start to separate large parties and people are going to have to accept it. They may not like it but they'll have to deal with it just like in the park.


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Old 08-15-2012, 07:39 PM   #73
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The issue is it's not fixing the problem because when they radio in a bus and its not a disney bus but a Mears bus filling in...that doesn't help. Since Mears buses aren't allowed to handle WCs or ECVs, it really hasn't done anything but upset the disabled individual because they get to see yet ANOTHER bus come & go that they cannot board. So there are still some serious flaws in this system. And for example one night, they radioed for a Disney bus because the one that was there was a Mears...and the Disney one arrived only to double park!! Well what good did that do??!! It couldn't load any ECVs. LOL So then they had to call in yet another! The CMs & I laughed about it because I found no point in getting angry. It was what it was and it certainly wasn't the immediate CMs' fault! I think that is why they gave me the phone # because I was also trying to help them make their jobs better. It's definitely needs some serious tweeking but they are going to have to start to separate large parties and people are going to have to accept it. They may not like it but they'll have to deal with it just like in the park.


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your right they need to see they have a wheelchair and call in a disney bus and send the mears to another stop. i wish disney would make mears and other out side companys offer accessible buses. was their in june and saw bus after bus being from an outside company have aoa on their marquee. The best thing disney could do is increase their buses they are getting more buses but not as fast as they would like. The thing is if mear pulls up to a resort and see a guest in a wheelchair their supposed to call their dispatch then disney has to send a bus so for them to call in mears knowing they need one of their buses is one of the problems. they shouldn't be double loading it a bad habit the drivers have and it taking them awhile to get them out of it because the second bus blocks the road backing up the rest of the buses.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:52 AM   #74
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We just returned from WDW and the handicap rider situations needs to be looked at.......many many people are taking advantage of the system. If you rent a wheelchair you get bumped ahead on rides and the bus.We saw a family of 15 and a wheelchair arrive right before the bus and they all got right on even tho many of us had been waiting awhile,only to see the wheelchair bound person living it up at the pool walking,swimming and having a good time. When asked by someone wheres the wheelchair,she laughed and said she doesnt need it but it was the best money spent to avoid lines !!!!
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:14 AM   #75
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I cannot believe she said that. A wheelchair DOES NOT let you avoid lines. You usually go in the same line as everyone else!! The few times you are diverted to a different line, you often wait far longer than other people for the one vehicle designated HC!!!

If you have read this thread, you will see that it also doesn't get you front of the line privileges at buses most times. Also--remember that the WCs and ECVs are the last ones OFF the bus! They are the last ones to get to the parks or their rooms!

I am speaking from personal experience of many trips to WDW at both busy and "slow" times of the year!
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