new blog: Moving the Needle at the Orlando Theme Parks - The DIS Discussion Forums

WebmasterLeah · 05-16-2013, 10:19 AM

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2013/05/16/m...o-theme-parks/

wiigirl · 05-16-2013, 10:50 AM

Awesome!

Metro West · 05-16-2013, 11:03 AM

Nice read but its not Amityville that was the former Jaws area...it was Amity Island.

Amity Island - Jaws

Amityville - The Amityville Horror

cieslack · 05-16-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro West

Nice read but its not Amityville that was the former Jaws area...it was Amity Island.

Amity Island - Jaws

Amityville - The Amityville Horror

Yeah. A summer carnival based on Amityville just wouldn't have had the same appeal.

DCTooTall · 05-17-2013, 03:58 PM

Interesting article.....

I posted this in it's comments, and in the DisUnplugged forum, But thought I'd repost it here as I'd be interested in hearing other people's opinions and the forum format is much more conducive to an actual conversation.

---

I think You are missing several huge factors too in your analysis. I won't argue however that the size of the resorts could be a factor, but I don't think it's as simple as that.

As someone also mentioned, You have to look at the quality of the Expansions. Disney did some nice things, But ultimately the net gain was a cloned omnimover ride [which doesn't really generate a lot of excitement for most], a nice restaurant, a coaster that we are still waiting for, a Meet and Greet, and another classic carnival spinner ride [Dumbo x2).

Universal is adding some new groundbreaking attractions. Forbidden Journey is unlike anything most people have seen before. The Hogwarts Express attraction is also going to be unlike anything most people have seen (based off reports), and the Gringotts Coaster has a lot of potential based off Universal's recent track record and what we've read about in the books and seen in the movies.

Next.... You have to look at track records and it's impact on people's excitement. Over the past several years, Universal has been doing a LOT of construction at their resort. Inside the parks, Often they've already started construction and been working on it for some time before they even announce what they are doing (which helps build some buzz from the big theme park fans trying to figure out what's happening now). More importantly, Anytime Universal has announced anything over the past couple years, They've followed thru.

Now look at Disney. Disney Announces a LOT of stuff, including a lot of big projects. But they announce it LONG before it opens, and they haven't exactly shown a real rush to get the new construction completed quickly. The end result is that any buzz that was generated outside the hardcore Disney fans by the announcement has usually long-since subsided by the time we can actually experience the new areas. Then, You also have a LOT of things Disney has announced, that they never follow up on or gets canceled (Hyperion Wharf, Pixie Hallow, etc). The result is that we've almost been trained to not believe the Hype Disney tries to generate because there is absolutely no guarantee they will actually follow thru with anything they've announced. You can pretty much see this in the reaction to the whole Avatar/Pandora Project. Disney Announces it.....And since it's been over a year and we haven't seen many outward signs of them progressing with it, you see a large number of people already assuming it's another victim of Disney's track record of quiet cancellations.

And finally, another big thing I think can play into the excitement for a lot of the bigger fans of the Florida theme parks (Disney and Universal) is the question of the "net gain for the parks".

For New Fantasyland, if you just look at the footprint, There really wasn't much of an addition to the park. The space which the New Fantasyland is occupying is space that was already part of the Magic Kingdom. You have the Storybook Circus taking up the land used by Toontown for the past 20yrs, And the rest of New Fantasyland is taking up space that USED to be occupied by the 20k Leagues lagoon and show building. I think the only "Net Gain" for the Magic Kingdom there was the little corner with Bell's Village.....And it's seldom you'll see a restaurant and meet and Greet ever generate a huge buzz. Elsewhere in the Magic Kingdom and Disney Resort, we also still have a LOT of spaces and attractions which Disney has abandoned and left sitting there empty..... So Disney can suffer the fate of people seeing this new shiny addition, but then seeing it surrounded by so much empty space, closed attractions, and areas that just generally are no longer living up to the excitement they used to deliver, That it get's lost. It's like building a new McMansion in the middle of a run down and empty neighborhood.

For Universal, It's MUCH easier to see many of their recent additions as an overall net-gain for the resort. Generally, We have not seen the same history at that resort of removing something from the resort without adding something as good or better in it's place. With the Original WWoHP, We saw a large portion of the Lost Continent Disappear... but we gained Hogwarts, a new attraction, and amazing theming. We lost Back to the Future, But we gained Simpsons. We lose Jaws and Amity, and we gain Diagon Alley. We loose Kongfrontation, But we gain Revenge of the Mummy. There is very little in the Universal resort that seem like wasted space or which takes the shine off their additions. We had the old Murder She Wrote/Xena & Herc soundstage empty and abandoned for years... but they fixed that by giving us Transformers on that spot. The Simpsons area expansions/improvements are mostly additions to empty space that flesh out the area around the old Back to the Future building... and are a net improvement. Currently, the only "abandoned" items I can see at the Universal resort are the big amphitheater in the Islands of Adventure, and the old Triceratops Encounter in the Jurassic Park section. BUT..... Because of the theming and way the Triceratops Encounter was set up, the only reminder of it at this point is a couple paths that look like they just go into the forested backstage areas and the big Triceratops fossil rock that doesn't look that out of place next to the Discovery Center. It's easy to overlook... but even still, there are already rumors of the next phase of Universal construction happening in the Jurassic Park section, so that could be be another "remedied situation" like the abandoned Murder she Wrote soundstage.

So while it is easy to simply look at the Size of the resorts and the reason for the difference in excitement generated, I think it's only scratching the surface. It might even be worth hypothesizing that a reason the overall excitement levels are so much higher for Universal lately is because Universal has been showing us, the fans of the Florida Theme Parks, That they are truly willing to invest and give us so many new and improved experiences to enjoy. Disney on the other hand over the years has shown much less interest in investing in new and improved experiences for us to enjoy.....outside of the much more overt cash grabs like gift shops, Hotel rooms, DVC, and Restaurants. It's been YEARS since we have even gotten a brand new and exciting, NON-CLONED, attraction in the Disney Parks....The last one being (I believe) Expedition Everest...which has had the Yeti Black eye since shortly after it opened.

derekburgan · Yesterday, 10:46 AM

Yeah, I think the author was way off in the big picture and disagree with almost every main point in the article. Disney is putting their focus on ways to get people to spend more money at the parks where Universal is putting their money into rides. For a theme park fan you're always going to be more interested and excited about new rides and experiences.

glocon · Today, 10:10 AM

In reading the article, it seems like the author is being very defensive of WDW. Maybe it's just the way I was reading it, idk, but I guess people can defend any idea, look at lawyers and debaters (is that a real word?)

I love WDW, the whole thing. I love the parks, the resorts, DTD. I want to someday say that I have stayed at every resort on the property at least once. I will go back whenever I can. But the new FLE just does nothing at all for me. Maybe its because I am the mother of only one child, and he is a boy not interested at all in anything fantasyland-like. Never was, even when he was little. To us, Fantasyland is not what we pictured when thinking of WDW, not in the least. At all. SM and SM are.

A lot of people do not like HP either though. They could care less about visiting UO just for that, it is the other attractions that may draw them. We, on the other hand love Harry. We love UO. Probably more than WDW at this point. We want to someday stay at all the UO resorts also.

The article just seemed so defensive to me and kind of desperate. I think that is sad. I don't want WDW to be desperate and defensive. I just want them to be great. There is room in my heart for both WDW and UO. Why do people think that you can only love one or the other?

The one thing I would have to totally agree with is in his last sentence~ the one that says growth is good no matter which theme park it is.

derekburgan · Today, 10:27 AM

Could not agree more Glocon and it's ironic that within the article the author tries to say people hold Disney to a higher standard when I think those days are gone and instead Disney has a whole crew of unofficial apologists tying themselves into knots to try justify Disney's actions.

Disney has some great parks, some great hotels, some great restaurants and many people who work for them are fantastic. But to bury your head in the sand and ignore that the top management of WDW right now is only interested in the bottom line at the expense of guests and even its own employees isn't going to change anything.

What I find really odd is that every other aspect of the Disney company is going way beyond to bring more to their guests. Disneyland/California Adventure seems like an incredible 1-2 punch now. The new Disney Cruise Line ships are fantastic and they look to be adding more to plus the guest experience on the older ships (Aqua Dunk, etc). The rumored DVC projects sound great. Meanwhile WDW guests are just being shaken as hard as they can so more change can fall out of their pockets.

05-16-2013, 10:19 AM	#1
WebmasterLeah Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,030	new blog: Moving the Needle at the Orlando Theme Parks http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2013/05/16/m...o-theme-parks/ __________________ Me DH DS7 DS5 DD1

05-16-2013, 10:50 AM	#2
wiigirl DIS Veteran Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,415	Awesome! __________________

05-16-2013, 11:03 AM	#3
Metro West Proud Redhead 11.47 Miles from Universal 23.56 Miles from Disney Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NW Orlando, FL Posts: 42,303	Nice read but its not Amityville that was the former Jaws area...it was Amity Island. Amity Island - Jaws Amityville - The Amityville Horror __________________ ** Universal Orlando annual passholder since 2004! **

Today, 10:10 AM	#7
glocon DIS Veteran Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 851	In reading the article, it seems like the author is being very defensive of WDW. Maybe it's just the way I was reading it, idk, but I guess people can defend any idea, look at lawyers and debaters (is that a real word?) I love WDW, the whole thing. I love the parks, the resorts, DTD. I want to someday say that I have stayed at every resort on the property at least once. I will go back whenever I can. But the new FLE just does nothing at all for me. Maybe its because I am the mother of only one child, and he is a boy not interested at all in anything fantasyland-like. Never was, even when he was little. To us, Fantasyland is not what we pictured when thinking of WDW, not in the least. At all. SM and SM are. A lot of people do not like HP either though. They could care less about visiting UO just for that, it is the other attractions that may draw them. We, on the other hand love Harry. We love UO. Probably more than WDW at this point. We want to someday stay at all the UO resorts also. The article just seemed so defensive to me and kind of desperate. I think that is sad. I don't want WDW to be desperate and defensive. I just want them to be great. There is room in my heart for both WDW and UO. Why do people think that you can only love one or the other? The one thing I would have to totally agree with is in his last sentence~ the one that says growth is good no matter which theme park it is. __________________ 2002-WDW offsite and POR * 2003- WDW/UO offsite * 2007- UO/SW offsite * 2010- WDW AKL/ UO HRH * 2012 WDW BC/ UO HRH

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05-17-2013, 03:58 PM	#5
DCTooTall Thinks He Can Escape Boo Boo Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: York, PA Posts: 5,465	Interesting article..... I posted this in it's comments, and in the DisUnplugged forum, But thought I'd repost it here as I'd be interested in hearing other people's opinions and the forum format is much more conducive to an actual conversation. --- I think You are missing several huge factors too in your analysis. I won't argue however that the size of the resorts could be a factor, but I don't think it's as simple as that. As someone also mentioned, You have to look at the quality of the Expansions. Disney did some nice things, But ultimately the net gain was a cloned omnimover ride [which doesn't really generate a lot of excitement for most], a nice restaurant, a coaster that we are still waiting for, a Meet and Greet, and another classic carnival spinner ride [Dumbo x2). Universal is adding some new groundbreaking attractions. Forbidden Journey is unlike anything most people have seen before. The Hogwarts Express attraction is also going to be unlike anything most people have seen (based off reports), and the Gringotts Coaster has a lot of potential based off Universal's recent track record and what we've read about in the books and seen in the movies. Next.... You have to look at track records and it's impact on people's excitement. Over the past several years, Universal has been doing a LOT of construction at their resort. Inside the parks, Often they've already started construction and been working on it for some time before they even announce what they are doing (which helps build some buzz from the big theme park fans trying to figure out what's happening now). More importantly, Anytime Universal has announced anything over the past couple years, They've followed thru. Now look at Disney. Disney Announces a LOT of stuff, including a lot of big projects. But they announce it LONG before it opens, and they haven't exactly shown a real rush to get the new construction completed quickly. The end result is that any buzz that was generated outside the hardcore Disney fans by the announcement has usually long-since subsided by the time we can actually experience the new areas. Then, You also have a LOT of things Disney has announced, that they never follow up on or gets canceled (Hyperion Wharf, Pixie Hallow, etc). The result is that we've almost been trained to not believe the Hype Disney tries to generate because there is absolutely no guarantee they will actually follow thru with anything they've announced. You can pretty much see this in the reaction to the whole Avatar/Pandora Project. Disney Announces it.....And since it's been over a year and we haven't seen many outward signs of them progressing with it, you see a large number of people already assuming it's another victim of Disney's track record of quiet cancellations. And finally, another big thing I think can play into the excitement for a lot of the bigger fans of the Florida theme parks (Disney and Universal) is the question of the "net gain for the parks". For New Fantasyland, if you just look at the footprint, There really wasn't much of an addition to the park. The space which the New Fantasyland is occupying is space that was already part of the Magic Kingdom. You have the Storybook Circus taking up the land used by Toontown for the past 20yrs, And the rest of New Fantasyland is taking up space that USED to be occupied by the 20k Leagues lagoon and show building. I think the only "Net Gain" for the Magic Kingdom there was the little corner with Bell's Village.....And it's seldom you'll see a restaurant and meet and Greet ever generate a huge buzz. Elsewhere in the Magic Kingdom and Disney Resort, we also still have a LOT of spaces and attractions which Disney has abandoned and left sitting there empty..... So Disney can suffer the fate of people seeing this new shiny addition, but then seeing it surrounded by so much empty space, closed attractions, and areas that just generally are no longer living up to the excitement they used to deliver, That it get's lost. It's like building a new McMansion in the middle of a run down and empty neighborhood. For Universal, It's MUCH easier to see many of their recent additions as an overall net-gain for the resort. Generally, We have not seen the same history at that resort of removing something from the resort without adding something as good or better in it's place. With the Original WWoHP, We saw a large portion of the Lost Continent Disappear... but we gained Hogwarts, a new attraction, and amazing theming. We lost Back to the Future, But we gained Simpsons. We lose Jaws and Amity, and we gain Diagon Alley. We loose Kongfrontation, But we gain Revenge of the Mummy. There is very little in the Universal resort that seem like wasted space or which takes the shine off their additions. We had the old Murder She Wrote/Xena & Herc soundstage empty and abandoned for years... but they fixed that by giving us Transformers on that spot. The Simpsons area expansions/improvements are mostly additions to empty space that flesh out the area around the old Back to the Future building... and are a net improvement. Currently, the only "abandoned" items I can see at the Universal resort are the big amphitheater in the Islands of Adventure, and the old Triceratops Encounter in the Jurassic Park section. BUT..... Because of the theming and way the Triceratops Encounter was set up, the only reminder of it at this point is a couple paths that look like they just go into the forested backstage areas and the big Triceratops fossil rock that doesn't look that out of place next to the Discovery Center. It's easy to overlook... but even still, there are already rumors of the next phase of Universal construction happening in the Jurassic Park section, so that could be be another "remedied situation" like the abandoned Murder she Wrote soundstage. So while it is easy to simply look at the Size of the resorts and the reason for the difference in excitement generated, I think it's only scratching the surface. It might even be worth hypothesizing that a reason the overall excitement levels are so much higher for Universal lately is because Universal has been showing us, the fans of the Florida Theme Parks, That they are truly willing to invest and give us so many new and improved experiences to enjoy. Disney on the other hand over the years has shown much less interest in investing in new and improved experiences for us to enjoy.....outside of the much more overt cash grabs like gift shops, Hotel rooms, DVC, and Restaurants. It's been YEARS since we have even gotten a brand new and exciting, NON-CLONED, attraction in the Disney Parks....The last one being (I believe) Expedition Everest...which has had the Yeti Black eye since shortly after it opened.

Yesterday, 10:46 AM	#6
derekburgan Mouseketeer Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 242	Yeah, I think the author was way off in the big picture and disagree with almost every main point in the article. Disney is putting their focus on ways to get people to spend more money at the parks where Universal is putting their money into rides. For a theme park fan you're always going to be more interested and excited about new rides and experiences.

Today, 10:27 AM	#8
derekburgan Mouseketeer Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 242	Could not agree more Glocon and it's ironic that within the article the author tries to say people hold Disney to a higher standard when I think those days are gone and instead Disney has a whole crew of unofficial apologists tying themselves into knots to try justify Disney's actions. Disney has some great parks, some great hotels, some great restaurants and many people who work for them are fantastic. But to bury your head in the sand and ignore that the top management of WDW right now is only interested in the bottom line at the expense of guests and even its own employees isn't going to change anything. What I find really odd is that every other aspect of the Disney company is going way beyond to bring more to their guests. Disneyland/California Adventure seems like an incredible 1-2 punch now. The new Disney Cruise Line ships are fantastic and they look to be adding more to plus the guest experience on the older ships (Aqua Dunk, etc). The rumored DVC projects sound great. Meanwhile WDW guests are just being shaken as hard as they can so more change can fall out of their pockets.