Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

[skater]

Originally Posted by DizBelle

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

Not even remotely true.

[Jennasis]

Originally Posted by skater

I can't wait to see it. Trying to find a time for all of us to go at the same time is the hold-up. We may have to see it separately .

You haven't seen it yet????????

OMG you gotta go! I'm so sorry if there were spoilers in the thread...don't read anymore until you see it.

[skater]

Originally Posted by Jennasis

You haven't seen it yet????????

OMG you gotta go! I'm so sorry if there were spoilers in the thread...don't read anymore until you see it.

Thanks! No problem - I don't mind a few spoilers. I can't wait - I loved the Loki character in Thor - though I'm not sure I'll like him so much in this one .

[Jennasis]

Originally Posted by skater

Thanks! No problem - I don't mind a few spoilers. I can't wait - I loved the Loki character in Thor - though I'm not sure I'll like him so much in this one .

I had a bit of a crush on Tom Hiddleston's Loki after watching Thor...and after the Avengers, I'd say my crush is still in tact, but I might have an even bigger one on the Hulk. Not Bruce Banner...the actual Hulk.

Loki was awesome as a villain. I think these movies are only as good as the bad guy. Tragic bad guys (ala Darth Vader) are the best!

[Lintasare]

Originally Posted by EMom

Then you need to think some more. Seriously.

Wow that was rude. She was merely expressing her own opinion. And I kinda agree with her. Children, especially younger children pick up cues from their parents. If a parent laughs at something the child will more than likely laugh. If a parent is upset then the child gets upset. I see it happen a lot.

[Scurvy]

Originally Posted by Lintasare

Wow that was rude. She was merely expressing her own opinion. And I kinda agree with her. Children, especially younger children pick up cues from their parents. If a parent laughs at something the child will more than likely laugh. If a parent is upset then the child gets upset. I see it happen a lot.

I agree. That struck me as rude also. People can have different opinions about this. It doesn't mean they are wrong and it doesn't mean that if they think more they will suddenly have the "right" opinion.

Most kids who are old enough to see this movie are going to follow their parents' lead about things like this. If the parents take it seriously, the kids will too. If the parents laugh it off as the joke it was obviously intended to be, the kids will too. The movie is rated PG-13 and while it is mostly just a fun comic book movie about completely unrealistic characters, it does deal with some pretty serious stuff. By the time a kid is old enough to handle the rest of the movie, they should also be able to understand the context of the comment and take it the way it was intended unless their parents act like they should take it seriously. Obviously there are some people who will take it more personally and be bothered or offended by it, but then there are people who will be bothered by almost anything you can joke about. I don't believe those people are the majority in this case, even if you are only considering people who have either adopted who who were themselves adopted.

Since this morning I've asked several more adoptive parents and a couple more adopted people who saw the movie their take on the scene and none of them were bothered by it. That certainly doesn't mean that those who are bothered are wrong to feel that way, but to me it does indicate that those who aren't bothered are also not wrong - or clueless, or ignorant- regardless of their experience (or lack thereof) with adoption.

[EMom]

Originally Posted by Lintasare

Wow that was rude. She was merely expressing her own opinion. And I kinda agree with her. Children, especially younger children pick up cues from their parents. If a parent laughs at something the child will more than likely laugh. If a parent is upset then the child gets upset. I see it happen a lot.

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting and that of countless other adoptive parents. And THAT is rude. Simple as that. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.

But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

[Lintasare]

Originally Posted by EMom

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting. And THAT is rude. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.


But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

Thanks for jumping down my throat.

[Scurvy]

Originally Posted by EMom

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting. And THAT is rude. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.

But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

No one in this thread said or implied that all adoptive parents "raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that". Some parents do raise children to be overly sensitive and to take offense at everything, but that is hardly exclusive to those who adopt.

I assume you noticed that some of the people who responded that it didn't bother them either have adopted or were adopted themselves. You obviously feel strongly about this but you are reading way more into this than people are saying.

[EMom]

Originally Posted by Lintasare

Thanks for jumping down my throat.

So someone can insult the parenting of umpteen people and THAT is okay because the person is merely expressing an opinion, but when the target of said remark dares suggest the poster is wrong and needs to continue thinking, THAT is crossing the line? Don't think so. The poster made an observation which happened to double as a thinly veiled insult. They are entitled to do that, but I am also entitled to respond. The poster made a statement about a group of people I happen to belong to. I saw it as flat out wrong and said so.

[Jennasis]

Emom, clearly ALL adoptive parents and children don't share your views and the OP's views on the ONE line, as expressed by multiple posters right here on the thread. So does that make them all ignorant of the feelings of adoptees too?

[Doug7856]

Originally Posted by JenM

...A few years ago, the movie "Orphan" had a tagline on the poster about how it was harder to love an adopted child as much as your own. That was offensive, and I agreed with the complaints about that poster, and glad the studio changed it.

But this? No, it's not the same thing at all. Especially since it's amongst two whole movies were Loki was repeatedly told how he had been loved as nothing less than a son and a brother. And even after that line, Thor was still trying to stop Loki and save him - as his brother.

Jen, I agree, this in no way comes near to the "Orphan" movie a few years back.

We enjoyed the Avengers and will probably see it again, but this issue continues to bother me as inappropriate. No matter how you slice it, "He's adopted" -- the concept that Loki is not my "real" brother -- was the root of the humor in Thor's joke. That's what got the laughter because he was backing away from his original, forceful contention that Loki was his brother.

[EMom]

Originally Posted by Scurvy

No one in this thread said or implied that all adoptive parents "raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that". Some parents do raise children to be overly sensitive and to take offense at everything, but that is hardly exclusive to those who adopt.

I assume you noticed that some of the people who responded that it didn't bother them either have adopted or were adopted themselves. You obviously feel strongly about this but you are reading way more into this than people are saying.

I have no idea if this line would bother my DD or not. A lot of adoption "jokes" seem to go past her, but then I never know if she's just keeping quiet. I am not asking everyone to be outraged. Far from it. I am asking people to consider WHY these remarks are still okay and why we still laugh. We used to laugh at certain racial slurs, but not so much anymore. Why? Are they less true? Less funny? Did we open our minds to the effect words could have?

I have always been a champion of children, long before I adopted. Especially children who were vulnerable in some way. I do not like to see children made to feel "less than" for no good reason. IMHO, a laugh is not worth that. It doesn't have to hurt 100% of the kids to be something we might want to rethink. Who is the bigger person here? The adult making the joke or the adopted kid? I know who it OUGHT to be.

Really, if adults have gotten to this point in life and still think adoption jokes are knee slappers, then I can talk until I am blue in the face and it won't make a difference. They will never see or care about the kids out there who feel like crap at because they are, essentially, a punchline. How many on this thread said, "Gee, you know, I never stopped to look at it like that. But now that you mention it, I see how jokes like that could really hurt a kid. I don't want to be part of that."? I know I won't be long counting the numbers. Which is, sadly, totally expected.

If we were talking about adults being offended, I would probably be less passionate than I am in this case. Children being hurt just doesn't strike me as humorous. Never has.

[Lintasare]

I think this thread needs some jazz hands.

[snarlingcoyote]

Originally Posted by DizBelle

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

I'm adopted. I thought it was a dumb, stupid, mildly offensive line but wasn't offended until I found out that the backstory is offensive and, not only that, but people are just fine and dandy with it and happy to defend it.

Whatever.