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Old 08-25-2012, 04:24 PM   #226
holcombe5
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Originally Posted by snarlingcoyote View Post
And if her birth mother had acted in good faith, in reasonable manner to begin with, this little girl would've had a good relationship with all her siblings. Now, sadly, it will likely take time for feelings to settle and arrangements to be made.

And there will always be the looming specter of the adoptive parents, who sound obsessed enough to become stalkers - if they really wanted what was best for this little girl, they would leave her and her family be to heal.
OMG! If the birth father had been a man in the first place NONE of this would have happened.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:27 PM   #227
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OMG! If the birth father had been a man in the first place NONE of this would have happened.
What does that mean?

They could have notified the court of their intent to transfer custody to him and just done so when the paperwork was completed. No reason for her to have gone into foster care.

Though that does sometimes happen for a very short period, and it's not a huge deal.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #228
holcombe5
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How is that in her best interests? That's pure evil, imo, trying to mainpulate people using a crying child as fodder. They went to the media, whether by proxy or not, they're completely complicit in that. They didn't change anything, they allowed that to occur, even if it had had nothing to do with them, which seems unlikely, given their unending public commenting.

He did not abandon her.

The adoptive people's family is not her extended family.

I am all for adoption, I only use the term 'real parents' when referring to the adoptive parents in a real adoption. This is not that. This is a pair of nuts, entirely concerned with themselves, and totally willing to damage a child in the process.
Read the court records. He did abandon her! What's pure evil is this discussion page.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:33 PM   #229
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OMG! If the birth father had been a man in the first place NONE of this would have happened.
Interesting, since the birth mother is the one that gave her away for adoption.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:35 PM   #230
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OMG! If the birth father had been a man in the first place NONE of this would have happened.
From what I've been reading, it looks like the birth mother is the one that cut him out of the picture. It looks like she was going to still be apart of the child life after the adoption. Did anyone try to contact the father and give him the same treatment? It doesn't look that way.

It looks like he wanted to get married, she leaves him and that's it. Sets herself up with a decent situation where she'll still get to know the kid and the birth father is cut out.

Having the media there when the child was taken away is in no way in the child's best interest.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:35 PM   #231
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Read the court records. He did abandon her! What's pure evil is this discussion page.
It's a discussion board, hence the discussion. If you don't like the discussion, you're welcome to not participate. You certainly aren't changing my mind and aren't helping your cause (your "friends") at all.

I find it interesting the OP has not been back to this thread, yet this poster (from the same location) has recently registered and has only posted in this thread.

Hmmmm...
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:39 PM   #232
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Read the court records. He did abandon her! What's pure evil is this discussion page.
Pure evil is ignoring the ICWA act, keeping a child you know you shouldn't be adopting, spinning lie after lie about the birth father, and when the courts find in favor of the law, continuing to hound and pursue.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:42 PM   #233
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The court system dictated when she was returned. The adoptive parents do not have that say. IF they had "returned" her as so many of you demand...she would have gone into foster care not to Mr. Brown. It's as cut and dry as you want it to be.
If they were thinking about her best interests they could have tried working with the father until it was all sorted out. Perhaps if they had acted differently as soon as they knew there was a problem, their hurt would be less now.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:42 PM   #234
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What does that mean?

They could have notified the court of their intent to transfer custody to him and just done so when the paperwork was completed. No reason for her to have gone into foster care.

Though that does sometimes happen for a very short period, and it's not a huge deal.
Yep. From what I've experienced (DSIL's mom used to do foster care) it takes a few days, sometimes even less than a week for the transfer to occur if all parties act like responsible adults.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:44 PM   #235
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Read the court records. He did abandon her! What's pure evil is this discussion page.
How did he abandon her? He filed when she was four months old, before the adoption was finalized, and prior to that, he'd apparently been lied to.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:50 PM   #236
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Yep. From what I've experienced (DSIL's mom used to do foster care) it takes a few days, sometimes even less than a week for the transfer to occur if all parties act like responsible adults.
Yeah, I don't like the 'might go into foster care!' as if it means being dropped into a filthy pit and neglected. I've known people who've done it too and they're lovely people who want to help kids.

No, it's not ideal to place a child with strangers when there are people capable of caring for them. However, most foster homes are loving people who take very good care of the children in their charge. It's also as you say, very often short-term stuff. Some are longterm but lots of foster families have fostered dozens and dozens of kids not because they packed them in like sardines but because they had lots come stay for a day or two until relatives were located or a week or so until stuff was sorted, etc.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:59 PM   #237
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It's a discussion board, hence the discussion. If you don't like the discussion, you're welcome to not participate. You certainly aren't changing my mind and aren't helping your cause (your "friends") at all.

I find it interesting the OP has not been back to this thread, yet this poster (from the same location) has recently registered and has only posted in this thread.

Hmmmm...
Yep. I'm done. Originally came to ask one of the poster to stop spreading lies about my friends and in turn got sucked in. Justice Hearn said it all:

"My review of the record convinces me that Father turned his back on the joys and responsibilities of fatherhood at every turn. I would not minimize, as the majority does, the telling fact that Father told Mother in writing after Baby Girl's birth that he would relinquish his parental rights rather than support her and Baby Girl, and I do not join the majority in accepting his laughable explanation that he did this as a way to convince Mother to marry him. In stark contrast to Father's behavior in completely shirking his parental responsibilities, every action taken by Adoptive Couple since they learned she was going to be their child has demonstrated their deep and unconditional love and commitment to Baby Girl. Nevertheless, today, the majority goes out of its way to re-cast the facts in a light unfavorable to Adoptive
Couple and overlooks Father's clear course of conduct, affording him a second chance at fatherhood, all at great emotional cost to Baby Girl and Adoptive Couple."
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:07 PM   #238
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Yep. I'm done. Originally came to ask one of the poster to stop spreading lies about my friends and in turn got sucked in. Justice Hearn said it all:

"My review of the record convinces me that Father turned his back on the joys and responsibilities of fatherhood at every turn. I would not minimize, as the majority does, the telling fact that Father told Mother in writing after Baby Girl's birth that he would relinquish his parental rights rather than support her and Baby Girl, and I do not join the majority in accepting his laughable explanation that he did this as a way to convince Mother to marry him. In stark contrast to Father's behavior in completely shirking his parental responsibilities, every action taken by Adoptive Couple since they learned she was going to be their child has demonstrated their deep and unconditional love and commitment to Baby Girl. Nevertheless, today, the majority goes out of its way to re-cast the facts in a light unfavorable to Adoptive
Couple and overlooks Father's clear course of conduct, affording him a second chance at fatherhood, all at great emotional cost to Baby Girl and Adoptive Couple."
I don't know where that judge got the idea that the father should have any obligation to support the mother at any point. That's not a parental or any other type of responsibility.

Though, that's why he was a dissenting opinion, one supposes.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:00 PM   #239
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How did he abandon her? He filed when she was four months old, before the adoption was finalized, and prior to that, he'd apparently been lied to.
Just to clarify, the adoption was never finalized.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #240
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On the Save Veronica Rose they are quoting the baby Jessica case again where the mother lied in this case she named another man as the father and only told the real father he had a daughter when the baby had been handed over. They got her back at 2 1/2 as well but if you look she did well, has never wanted to see the couple who wanted to adopt her and finds it creepy that husband has her baby picture on his bed side table
http://zoey24.hubpages.com/hub/Fight-for-Baby-Jessica

so sad. this happened in the past with baby jessica deboer who later was renamed anna smythe. Michigan law has since been changed but at what cost. Both sets of parents divorced one over losing their daughter and the accutrement stress related to it, the other because it appeared to be over their ethic or morality of the short lived moment.

Anna Schmidt now 19, is doing really well and living with her Mum Cara and partner, and her younger sister Chloe. Anna still see's her father Dan on a regular basis. Anna says she has no memories of her time with the Deboer's, and feels angry towards them for what she calls "legally kidnapping her." Anna believes that the Deboer's caused her birth parents, to miss out on her baby years. To this day, the Schmidt's still don't have any baby photo's of their daughter, they are all owned by the Deboer's. Anna says she has no wish to contact the Deboers and finds it creepy that Jan Deboer keeps a portrait of her on his mantelpiece. Anna's mother Cara said the day the nation saw Anna crying, when she was being taken from the Deboer's home, was because they had cruelly kept her little girl up all night, and panicked her about all the cameramen outside. Cara says she will never forgive them for that.

The Deboer's adopted a little boy after loosing Jessica (Anna) but they said the strain of loosing her caused them to Divorce.They later remarried but then divorced each other again, and still remain apart.
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