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Old 08-07-2012, 07:22 AM   #181
PaulaSB12
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I agree. The pain the adoptive parents feel must be so awful, I can't comprehend it. But, as you say, the adoption wasn't legal. We have to follow the law, otherwise, it would be an open market on baby-snatching.
I bring this up because according to the Save Veronica Rose Facebook they are considering taking it to the Us supreme court! How long can this go, they are also giving th occasional don't say nasty things routine but some of the comments are truly vile saying that Veronica can never amount to be anything but a loser with no life but drink and drugs because that is the only life native Americans have. I also googled failed adoption, there are a number of forums and the attacks on parents who think they can put a child up for adoption but find they cant is quiet shocking. They want laws changed so that if a pregnant woman says she will put the child in a family before birth thy cant change their mind after birth. Seemingly the laws that are insisting fathers provide for the mother and baby before birth are being certcomvented by adoption agencies hiding the pregnant mother because if you can't find her how can you support her. Does anyone remember the baby Richard case he went to claim and he got his son after he mother actually told him his son was dead, he tried to find where his son was buried and them found his son had been put up for adoption.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:00 PM   #182
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As of Today, seems like the former adoptive parents are appealing the ruling!
http://www.live5news.com/story/19266...-adoption-case
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:33 PM   #183
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As of Today, seems like the former adoptive parents are appealing the ruling!
http://www.live5news.com/story/19266...-adoption-case
Oh good lord. They won't win.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:36 PM   #184
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How incredibly stupid and selfish. This shows that it was all about ownership rather than care for the child. Someone needs to slap them hard for treating Veronica like a possession. She has been with her father for eight months if they really loved her they would stop this but all they care about is the toy they
Paid for was taken from them, they are obviously not suitable to be adoptive
Parets as its all about ownership not care.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:19 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by PaulaSB12 View Post
How incredibly stupid and selfish. This shows that it was all about ownership rather than care for the child. Someone needs to slap them hard for treating Veronica like a possession. She has been with her father for eight months if they really loved her they would stop this but all they care about is the toy they
Paid for was taken from them, they are obviously not suitable to be adoptive
Parets as its all about ownership not care.

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Old 08-14-2012, 08:16 AM   #186
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Oh good lord. They won't win.
Agreed. "Stupid and selfish" pretty much covers it.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #187
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As of Today, seems like the former adoptive parents are appealing the ruling!
http://www.live5news.com/story/19266...-adoption-case
There is a massive, glaring error right in the first sentence. They never adopted her. It was never finalized.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:01 AM   #188
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There is a massive, glaring error right in the first sentence. They never adopted her. It was never finalized.


Unfortunately, this is what happens when babies are seen as commodities by AGENCIES (not adoptive or birth families- but by the adoption industry). Coercion still exists in this country by the agencies- it often starts with the crisis pregnancy webpages and hotlines- which are very often run by the agencies who stand to benefit financially thru adoption placement. Birth moms are not given all the information and can be encouraged to lie to the birth father.
In some cases- the moms are being transported to give birth in Utah- which has some of the harshest custody filing requirements for fathers in the country. The fathers have to file for custody within 24 hrs of the birth in Utah. Hard to do if he does not know where the birth mom is giving birth.

I would like to see this country wake up and have uniform surrender and adoption laws so that a pregnant woman can make an appropriate and knowledgeable decision, so that birth fathers have the opportunity to be informed and make their own decision and so that adoptive parents have a smoother legal transition to legalizing the adoption. JMHO.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:38 PM   #189
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Unfortunately, this is what happens when babies are seen as commodities by AGENCIES (not adoptive or birth families- but by the adoption industry). Coercion still exists in this country by the agencies- it often starts with the crisis pregnancy webpages and hotlines- which are very often run by the agencies who stand to benefit financially thru adoption placement. Birth moms are not given all the information and can be encouraged to lie to the birth father.
In some cases- the moms are being transported to give birth in Utah- which has some of the harshest custody filing requirements for fathers in the country. The fathers have to file for custody within 24 hrs of the birth in Utah. Hard to do if he does not know where the birth mom is giving birth.

I would like to see this country wake up and have uniform surrender and adoption laws so that a pregnant woman can make an appropriate and knowledgeable decision, so that birth fathers have the opportunity to be informed and make their own decision and so that adoptive parents have a smoother legal transition to legalizing the adoption. JMHO.
I'm also tired of people treating babies like cash cows. I have a friend who wants to adopt a baby. Average fees? Over 20k - most of that straight to the birth mom. It makes me sick when she lines out what the birth mom usually wants for her fees - fees for an apartment she might want, cell phone fees, clothes budget - which some of that I get, but some of it is WAY out of budget. If a person would work when they are not pregnant, you don't quit work just because you are. Also, these agencies are collecting huge fees as well, as well as lawyers. I know it is off the topic of this thread, but this does need to be regulated, in addition to the birth father issue.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #190
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I'm also tired of people treating babies like cash cows. I have a friend who wants to adopt a baby. Average fees? Over 20k - most of that straight to the birth mom. It makes me sick when she lines out what the birth mom usually wants for her fees - fees for an apartment she might want, cell phone fees, clothes budget - which some of that I get, but some of it is WAY out of budget. If a person would work when they are not pregnant, you don't quit work just because you are. Also, these agencies are collecting huge fees as well, as well as lawyers. I know it is off the topic of this thread, but this does need to be regulated, in addition to the birth father issue.
That varies by state, there are states that do not allow fees like that, some have a cap like $500 for living expenses for the birth mom or "gifts". Some states only allow adoption agencies to operate as non-profit, some states allow them to charge as much as they want.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:45 AM   #191
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According to the Save Veronica Rose Facebook page their supporters are flooding their senators and the president with demands that the child be given back as she can't possibly have a happy life in an Indian family, despite from what the keep veronica page said before it was shut down (there has been words on threats to Dusten Brown and his family because he hasn't done what SVR people want and hand her over) his family had hired a native american who could speak Spanish so she would have knowledge of both sides of her heritage. No where did the paps even say they tried to do that they just want their "paid for" toy so they can feel that they have "saved" her. So if and when they loose this appeal they are intending to take it to the US supreme Court and will carry on fighting even if they lose that case. As a matter of interest if it did go to the US supreme court is there anywhere else the case could go?
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:22 AM   #192
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According to the Save Veronica Rose Facebook page their supporters are flooding their senators and the president with demands that the child be given back as she can't possibly have a happy life in an Indian family, despite from what the keep veronica page said before it was shut down (there has been words on threats to Dusten Brown and his family because he hasn't done what SVR people want and hand her over) his family had hired a native american who could speak Spanish so she would have knowledge of both sides of her heritage. No where did the paps even say they tried to do that they just want their "paid for" toy so they can feel that they have "saved" her. So if and when they loose this appeal they are intending to take it to the US supreme Court and will carry on fighting even if they lose that case. As a matter of interest if it did go to the US supreme court is there anywhere else the case could go?
The US Supreme.Court is the last stop - but it has to agree to even take the case in the first place. They decline to hear cases all the time.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #193
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Initially, I felt bad for the adoptive parents, for the situation they were in. Now, they've lost any sympathy I felt for them. Ugh, time for them to let it go and move on.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:39 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaSB12 View Post
According to the Save Veronica Rose Facebook page their supporters are flooding their senators and the president with demands that the child be given back as she can't possibly have a happy life in an Indian family, despite from what the keep veronica page said before it was shut down (there has been words on threats to Dusten Brown and his family because he hasn't done what SVR people want and hand her over) his family had hired a native american who could speak Spanish so she would have knowledge of both sides of her heritage. No where did the paps even say they tried to do that they just want their "paid for" toy so they can feel that they have "saved" her. So if and when they loose this appeal they are intending to take it to the US supreme Court and will carry on fighting even if they lose that case. As a matter of interest if it did go to the US supreme court is there anywhere else the case could go?
These people are showing an extreme lack of understanding of how the judicial system works. They can appeal a state court judgement by presenting the case to the US Supreme Court, yes, but the US Supreme Court does not have to take thise case, and I find it highly unlikely that they'll take this case. I mean, seriously? Even if they wanted to test the federal laws regarding American Indian kids, this is soooooo not a good case. But hey, if they want to bankrupt themselves, go for it, so long as they wind up paying the court costs for the father.

On that note, and from a purely personal perspective as an adoptee and the wife of an adoptee, I hope the father and his family find some credible reason to sue the daylights out of this couple and their supporters. They both illustrate all that's wrong with some adopters and cast aspersions over all the really good people who adopt kids.
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #195
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http://www.saveveronica.org/what-can...or-the-family/
They are selling bumper signs with her picture, paintings of her and a perfume in her name all without permission. Their aim is to strike down the american Indian welfare act, to severely limit the time given to parents to change their mind,they want the balance of the law to go from the parents to the potential adoptive parents.
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