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Old 06-29-2012, 12:31 PM   #31
Chuck S
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Originally Posted by abk96 View Post
Now you're being silly.

And occupancy in a room is totally different than chicken nuggets. Come on now.

I didn't think any of you would agree with me because you all are members. But I know a lot of people who aren't members and when I tell them about this they are confused. And it is confusing and well quite frankly "wrong".
Why are they confused? It's pretty simple, really. Occupancy is set by whoever controls the room, as long as it doesn't violate any fire codes. Disney could even say cash 1 bedrooms have a maximum occupancy of two, if they wanted to do so. Since non-Member can not directly book DVC controlled room, it is really a non-issue for them and irrelevent. Much like Disney giving special tickets to Florida residents. It has no impact on me, I am not a Florida resident, so if I buy a MYW ticket, I pay full price. If Disney grants discounts to organized groups and local residents, how does that affect me? It doesn't, just like DVC Occupancy does not impact non-Members booking cash. And the occupancy is no more confusing or wrong than those resident or group discounts.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by abk96 View Post
Now you're being silly.

And occupancy in a room is totally different than chicken nuggets. Come on now.

I didn't think any of you would agree with me because you all are members. But I know a lot of people who aren't members and when I tell them about this they are confused. And it is confusing and well quite frankly "wrong".
"Right" and "wrong" are in the eye of the beholder. To you it's "wrong" that they have different occupancy policies for DVC vs. non-DVC. To me it's "wrong" that I have to pay $30 for a buffet when my son eats about $3 worth of food.

To others, $95 park tickets are "wrong"...$500 per night hotel rates are "wrong"...$3.00 for a bottle of soda is "wrong"...cheaper annual pass prices for FL residents are "wrong."

I think the only difference between us is that you wish Disney's policy were different in this one case while I realize they make the rules and will do whatever the flip they want to do.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by abk96 View Post
Now you're being silly.

And occupancy in a room is totally different than chicken nuggets. Come on now.

I didn't think any of you would agree with me because you all are members. But I know a lot of people who aren't members and when I tell them about this they are confused. And it is confusing and well quite frankly "wrong".
They may be 'confused' at your reaction to the rule.

I don't think it is wrong. I've only had 5 in a one bedroom once in 13 years of membership, and only for a couple of nights during our stay. Usually we are only 2 or 3.

You, a non member, could consider that it is a current perk of membership.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:50 PM   #34
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This just makes me laugh thinking back many years right after we bought into the DVC and I asked on here if it was ok to put 5 in a one bedroom and everyone jumped all over me saying that their are fire codes and rules to occupancy.

I guess you all can't make up your mind.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:52 PM   #35
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Why are they confused? It's pretty simple, really. Occupancy is set by whoever controls the room, as long as it doesn't violate any fire codes. Disney could even say cash 1 bedrooms have a maximum occupancy of two, if they wanted to do so. Since non-Member can not directly book DVC controlled room, it is really a non-issue for them and irrelevent. Much like Disney giving special tickets to Florida residents. It has no impact on me, I am not a Florida resident, so if I buy a MYW ticket, I pay full price. If Disney grants discounts to organized groups and local residents, how does that affect me? It doesn't, just like DVC Occupancy does not impact non-Members booking cash. And the occupancy is no more confusing or wrong than those resident or group discounts.
Chuck, in my opinion the occupancy is set by the legal documents first and foremost. It's the enforcement that we rely on DVC for and IMO, they do a poor job in that area.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:04 PM   #36
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Chuck, in my opinion the occupancy is set by the legal documents first and foremost. It's the enforcement that we rely on DVC for and IMO, they do a poor job in that area.
Perhaps, but remember that with few exceptions, almost all parts of our POS can be changed at the whim of Disney.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:14 PM   #37
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Perhaps, but remember that with few exceptions, almost all parts of our POS can be changed at the whim of Disney.
It's not quite that easy and for items that are not in the best interest of the membership (at that resort) as a whole, it takes a vote of the members themselves. My opinion is that this is not in the best interest of the membership as a whole plus I doubt DVC would change the occupancy upwards of any resort without the additional bath, even if they could.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:56 PM   #38
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It's not quite that easy and for items that are not in the best interest of the membership (at that resort) as a whole, it takes a vote of the members themselves. My opinion is that this is not in the best interest of the membership as a whole plus I doubt DVC would change the occupancy upwards of any resort without the additional bath, even if they could.
OKW has only one actual bathroom in a one bedroom, and they allow 5 with the sleeper chair.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:13 PM   #39
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Wow. That's crazy.

My family just spent a week at the Beach Club on the club level and I know that these rooms have enough beds to sleep 5 but they don't really have the space for 5. The one bedrooms that I've been in over the years have way more space.

I guess I'm just thinking the way a normal person would. Disney being the non normal person of course.

More space fits more people.
The difference is that BC has sleeping space for five people even if the square footage is not all that comfortable for five. Most hotels and resorts don't allow you to book more people in a room than there are spaces to sleep. We (family of five) run into this all the time with other chains. There are certain hotels we know to look for because they have sleeping space for five.

Disney did not build suites and villas to accomodate extra guests sleeping on the floor. They have suites and villas to provide a more comfortable stay, a home away from home atmophere, and it makes perfect sense that the number of guests is limited to the number of sleeping spaces. DVC members being allowed to book five in a villa that sleeps four is a perk... an unofficial perk, I guess, but not really different from other perks that DVC members and other groups get. Not all DVC members agree with the "perk" of five in a villa that sleeps four, and not all members take advantage of it. We've always booked a 2BR for the five of us, and a lot of couples book a 1BR villa for two people, or a 2BR for four people.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:19 PM   #40
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OKW has only one actual bathroom in a one bedroom, and they allow 5 with the sleeper chair.
But that's part of the issue, legally they shouldn't.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Dean View Post
It's not quite that easy and for items that are not in the best interest of the membership (at that resort) as a whole, it takes a vote of the members themselves. My opinion is that this is not in the best interest of the membership as a whole plus I doubt DVC would change the occupancy upwards of any resort without the additional bath, even if they could.
Yes DVC is required to do what is in the best interest of the membership, but there is not requirement for a vote either by memebership or at the yearly meeting for the vast majority of items including occupancy. so yes DVC can change the occupancy anytime they want making the POS irrelevent. Should they then notify the members, yes, do they, no.

To argue the other side, if occupancy were higher for cash (same as members) the units from CRO would be in higher demand and therefore DVC could demand a higher reimbersemetn rate when CRO takes them in trade or as breakage, and that could lower dues. (of course this reuires that DVC agressively negotiates with Disney)
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:48 AM   #42
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Yes DVC is required to do what is in the best interest of the membership, but there is not requirement for a vote either by memebership or at the yearly meeting for the vast majority of items including occupancy. so yes DVC can change the occupancy anytime they want making the POS irrelevent. Should they then notify the members, yes, do they, no.

To argue the other side, if occupancy were higher for cash (same as members) the units from CRO would be in higher demand and therefore DVC could demand a higher reimbersemetn rate when CRO takes them in trade or as breakage, and that could lower dues. (of course this reuires that DVC agressively negotiates with Disney)
As I read the POS (articles of Incorporation, Dec. of Condo & By-laws), and taking into account the voting representative structure, they can add to but not take away from the rights of the membership. Anything that significantly took away from the membership as a whole would need to be voted on by the membership and require a 60% majority (IIRC). Exceptions would be where changes were required to keep them in line with state laws and similar. IMO, the only legit argument as it applies to this question is whether this situation met that requirement, IMO it does but I could see both sides of the argument. Since the ability to trade for cash or other exchange options is not a POS function, the increased value there for a subset of the membership would not be a question as it applies to the POS nor a benefit to the membership as a whole since it's only a small minority that use the option with the exception of the breakage inventory (which is capped and maxes out usually anyway).

I would also direct you to the Master Cotenancy agreement and the voting representative section and rules.
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:03 AM   #43
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Yes there are voting rights, but the items that are not covered by DVC's management authority are very limited.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by staceymay00 View Post
The difference is that BC has sleeping space for five people even if the square footage is not all that comfortable for five. Most hotels and resorts don't allow you to book more people in a room than there are spaces to sleep. We (family of five) run into this all the time with other chains. There are certain hotels we know to look for because they have sleeping space for five.

Disney did not build suites and villas to accomodate extra guests sleeping on the floor. They have suites and villas to provide a more comfortable stay, a home away from home atmophere, and it makes perfect sense that the number of guests is limited to the number of sleeping spaces. DVC members being allowed to book five in a villa that sleeps four is a perk... an unofficial perk, I guess, but not really different from other perks that DVC members and other groups get. Not all DVC members agree with the "perk" of five in a villa that sleeps four, and not all members take advantage of it. We've always booked a 2BR for the five of us, and a lot of couples book a 1BR villa for two people, or a 2BR for four people.
So you are saying that one person without a bed is a perk for members?

I used to be a member and that is not a perk.

Did anyone realize to think that 3 children can fit comfortably in the king bed and 2 adults in the queen sleeper. Just a thought here.

I also read back on the first thread (that was closed) this same topic about 5 in a one bedroom not being a perk and everyone arguing in favor of it not being a perk. So make up your minds. You can't have it both ways. Sorry.

And it is written that only 4 can be in a one bedroom in the contracts and that's legal.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:23 AM   #45
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...Did anyone realize to think that 3 children can fit comfortably in the king bed and 2 adults in the queen sleeper. Just a thought here..l.
Like that is going to happen with any sensible adult parents.
Give up the master bedroom to three small kids??? Hah!
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