Buying Resale: Small Broker or Professional Company?

[GrnMtnMan]

Now that the points are mine and I've made my first reservation, I feel comfortable sharing my thoughts on how my resale purchase went with a small sales broker.

Sales Broker

Bottom line is is was extremely underwhelmed by my sales broker, who is a sole proprietor. Having gone through the purchase of one home and the sale of another in the last 18 months, I guess I expected too much from my broker given my recent experience with real estate agents. It took way too long for her to respond to my questions. And when the deal was looking like it might head south, she apparently wasn't available.

My real estate agent for my other transactions was available 24/7 and did all the necessary shepherding and hand-holding to get the deal done. The broker I used for my DVC purchase sometime took 48 hours to respond to emails (I didn't have that many questions). She let the title agent deal with way too many of my questions. And she was not on top of the sellers to get their docs in.

Title Company

There was one thing I do not like about how the title company handled things, and that has to do with money. As soon as I got my closing documents, I spoke with the title agent and clearly indicated that I was going to be wiring funds - I went to my bank that day and did so. Well, it took more than two weeks from that point for the sellers to get their docs in, and all-the-while the title company had my money. The title company should advise buyers who are wiring the funds to wait until closing is imminent to do the actual transfer. Its one thing for closing to take awhile....it's another when they have all the cash and you're waiting.

So my advice is to go with a more professional sales broker with multiple staff members if you're looking to buy resale...I'm assuming they are more responsive than my sole-proprietor broker. Anybody have a similar experience? Would a professional business with more staff been more responsive?

And here's a detailed time-line of the events:

- Day 0: Receive closing docs from title agent (passed DVC ROFR several days ago).

- Day 0: Call title agent and ask questions about wiring funds. Tell title agent that I will be wiring that day, and I do so.

- Day 1: neither title agent nor sales broker automatically verify that funds and documents were received....it took an email from me to find out.

- Day 1-2: have a question about timeline for closing and sales broker takes nearly 24 hours to respond. And the response is general and non-specific to my transaction.

- Day 3: I email title agent to ask same timeline question. Responds quickly, but just with general information (title company now has had my money for three days).

- Day 4: I email sales broker to have broker check-in with sellers. Learn at this point that, according to the title agent, sellers have been 'out-of-town' and will not be getting sales document notarized until Day 8. Note that the broker did not respond to this question.

- Day 8: At 1 PM email both title agent and sales broker to find out if sellers have sent documents. It took 24 hours and a second email from me to get a response (response is that sellers had mailed documents earlier that week). Another non-response from my broker

- Day 14: Email broker and title agent asking if sellers documents had been received. Learn from title agent at that sellers documents were received December 16, but were not done properly and had to be re-done. Sales broker does not respond to any of the day's emails until well after business hours.

- Day 16: Email broker to get a status update...before she responds get an email from title agent that I've closed an the transaction is complete.

Day 17 was the latest closing date I agreed to in my contract.

[KAT4DISNEY]

My experiences have been pretty much the same no matter if it was a sole proprietor type or there were several staff. About the only difference was in calling where another person could take the call and most likely help me out.

Regarding the title company I wouldn't say that they were incorrect as they also would not have known how quickly the sellers would return the paperwork or even how quickly a buyer will actuallly get the funds in no matter what they say. That comment isn't applying to you but is just in general - YKWIM?

DVC is purchasing an interest in real estate but it's also not the same as a house.A time or two I might have liked a faster response but that was more a wish than a real need. Overall I'd say your experience was certainly not atypical not matter the size of the broker's company.

[GrnMtnMan]

Thanks for your insight...it helps me get some perspective.

Originally Posted by KAT4DISNEY

Regarding the title company I wouldn't say that they were incorrect as they also would not have known how quickly the sellers would return the paperwork or even how quickly a buyer will actuallly get the funds in no matter what they say. That comment isn't applying to you but is just in general - YKWIM?

IKWYM

I'll counter that there's a real difference that the title company ought to respect: they, as title agent, are already holding a substantial sum of money from the buyer before closing...whereas they have nothing but promise from the seller. Yes, buyers might drag their feet on getting final payment in, but some of the money is already there, clearly indicating that they buyer will be going through with the transactions. There's no such financial commitment at this point from the seller.

So the title agent shouldn't be so hot-to-trot to take my money for the purpose of administrative ease.

Originally Posted by KAT4DISNEY

DVC is purchasing an interest in real estate but it's also not the same as a house.A time or two I might have liked a faster response but that was more a wish than a real need. Overall I'd say your experience was certainly not atypical not matter the size of the broker's company.

This is helpful too. But let me clarify further: the sales agent missed an entire day of emails where I was trying to find out my options if the sellers failed to get docs in. The sales broker was asked by the title agent to answer one of my questions....and it took her more than 8 hours to respond. Is that a normal drop-the-ball or an unusual one?

[Brian Noble]

It's worth pointing out that the commission on those real estate deals was probably worth quite a bit more than the commission on a DVC contract. In light of that, I'm not sure it is fair to have the same expectations.

[KAT4DISNEY]

Originally Posted by GrnMtnMan

Thanks for your insight...it helps me get some perspective.
IKWYM

I'll counter that there's a real difference that the title company ought to respect: they, as title agent, are already holding a substantial sum of money from the buyer before closing...whereas they have nothing but promise from the seller. Yes, buyers might drag their feet on getting final payment in, but some of the money is already there, clearly indicating that they buyer will be going through with the transactions. There's no such financial commitment at this point from the seller.

So the title agent shouldn't be so hot-to-trot to take my money for the purpose of administrative ease.

Well, the title company doesn't "take" the money. The buyer must send it to them and the speed in which they do that is up to the buyer. I've never bothered with the expense to wire money b/c it's going to be pretty rare for a seller to be able to get paperwork back that quickly although that happened with one of our contracts. In the end the closing date in the contract is the legal part and it's up to the interested parties to decide how to proceed - ie, send the money fast or to wait until the last possible second. The title company will advise in a manner that will facilitate the fastest closing and then it becomes dependent on the buyer and seller.

And, the fact that there isn't any skin in the game from the seller is another reason why the title company is there with their escrow account. You can feel secure you will receive your funds back if the sellers don't follow thru.

Originally Posted by GrnMtnMan

This is helpful too. But let me clarify further: the sales agent missed an entire day of emails where I was trying to find out my options if the sellers failed to get docs in. The sales broker was asked by the title agent to answer one of my questions....and it took her more than 8 hours to respond. Is that a normal drop-the-ball or an unusual one?

I've also had similar response time from the "professional" company you referred to. If I need a faster response I'll pick up the phone and not use email so I know right away if they know there's a question.

As Brian mentioned - the skin in the game from everyone is less than buying a house (in most cases). And everyone needs at least one day off now and then. I still don't consider anything you experienced to be that unusual but a larger company will be able to cover for days off or sickness that a small one can't.

[GrnMtnMan]

Thanks again.

Bottom line: I get that my expectations were probably a bit too high, and the there probably isn't much difference based on the size of agency. But I still think there are several things in the process that could be improved without too much effort.

Originally Posted by Brian Noble

It's worth pointing out that the commission on those real estate deals was probably worth quite a bit more than the commission on a DVC contract. In light of that, I'm not sure it is fair to have the same expectations.

True....the commission is smaller here. But the transaction is much simpler, there is barely any marketing expense, there are no inspections, radon tests, drives to a thousand houses to check out, etc.

So providing lousy service beacuse someone thinks they aren't being paid enough really isn't an excuse.

Originally Posted by KAT4DISNEY

The title company will advise

They didn't advise me of anything....that's the biggest part of my beef. I informed them I would be sending the money post-haste, and they said nothing.

A sin of omission, yes, but a sin nonetheless. They know how these things go....they do it everyday. I do it once (or just a few) times in a lifetime. Some sort of advice was in order like 'send the money soon and we'll close ASAP, but that might be a while' ...or... 'hold on to the funds a few days, it usually takes sellers a while to get their notarized docs in'.

[hollis]

GrnMtnMan, I'd agree with you on many counts. I too have very high expectations. I've come to realize most companies, big or small, real estate or other, don't always stay on top of their duties. I guess there is no explicit contractual commitment that they need to respond within a certain time.

Besides, it is not so much big company or small company. It is the particular person you happen to deal with. May be it is human nature to procrastinate. So next time you get super quick responses, consider yourself lucky.

[Bradleyv1714]

I have been thinking about purchasing DVC and I was looking into these threee website resalers and I thank you very much for posting this.

[KAT4DISNEY]

Originally Posted by GrnMtnMan

They didn't advise me of anything....'.

They advised you to send in your money .....(to allow for closing). What you prefer to ignore is that they actually have no control over either party and how quickly they send required paperwork or funds in. You had a scheduled closing date on your paperwork and could have elected to stick to that but I'd guess you preferred to try and close sooner so you sent in your funds.

With most real estate closings you are doing it in person by scheduled appointment and the title company knows exactly where the process is and when things will be done. Thru the mail is a whole different thing. I'd just refer to it as a lesson learned about the process rather than negligence or withholding info. A quick search on the forums here would have turned up many threads about sellers not returning paperwork promptly. I, on the otherhand had a buyer do the same. It happens. But if my transactions have been indicative of normal then the norm is for both parties to respond promptly when paperwork is received and you could just have easily been the slow party if you had waited to send funds.

Now get prepared for DVC and their communication! lol

[GrnMtnMan]

Originally Posted by KAT4DISNEY

What you prefer to ignore is that they actually have no control over either party and how quickly they send required paperwork or funds in.

They had control over me, as I do what I say when I say I'm going to do it. I don't like them working on the assumption that I'm unreliable.

Furthermore, I asked several questions about the process where they (both the sales broker and title agent) chose to answer with generalities. I specifically asked for the milestones along the way to closing the transaction, and neither of them mentioned anything about the seller process taking longer.

Had they answered with greater detail or specifics to my transaction, I would have behaved differently. At the end of this all I'm left feeling a little icky about the process.

I'm not a rube on these matter either. I've mentioned my recent personal real estate transactions. I also work at a financial institution and primarily focus on commercial real estate. I'm honestly a bit surprised in how cavalier they were in accepting my funds, given what I've learned through the process. They take on quite a bit of risk by holding my funds indefinitely (and it is 'indefinitely' because the contract allows the title company to extend closing beyond the contracted date).

And please, I really don't want to argue. Telling me I 'prefer to ignore' something dosen't help this discussion. I've gotten the message loud & clear that my transaction was pretty typical. And that the not-so-great feelings I have about the process would likely have been quite similar had my sales broker been a larger firm instead of a sole proprietor. But that doesn't change my feelings and doesn't mean that the professionals in this process can't improve the way they do business.

[KAT4DISNEY]

My apologies that my opinion and point of view differs from yours.

[taaren]

We went with a large resale seller, the sponsors of these boards, and they handled everything wonderfully. The title company, they used, however did not.

It was in December, and they had all the paperwork, etc that they needed from us and from the seller, but they just dropped the ball was my understanding. They took so much time that we ended up crossing the deadline by which annual dues had to be paid before the closing passed which means the contract had to be redrawn. I think the person who was supposed to be handling our contract went on vacation and they weren't returning my phone calls so in frustration I called the resale agent who called them and got somebody on it ...

So even if you use a larger company, there can still be mess-ups. It wasn't a major one, and we still had the points to use in mid-January for our October trip, just ahead of the 7 month deadline, but it was more stressful than it needed to be. I think real estate and contracts are inevitably headaches but the savings are worth it.

If we add on again, it will be resale, and it will be with whoever has the contract we want.

[saintstickets]

We have purchased 5 small contracts over the past 2 1/2 years and have used or tried to use all of the 4 main DVC resellers (the 3 mentioned here on the DISboards and 1 more that cannot be named - no, it's not Voldemort...that's Universal's HP, not Disney's DVC! ) We've had great agents and not-so-great agents. Agents that respond within minutes of our sending them an email and others that took days to respond. Agents that did not like us making a low-ball offer and agents that willingly passed on any offer made. Agents that personally called to inform us of passing ROFR and agents that I had to hound to find out the status of ROFR. A Title company that showed no interest in contacting the seller for the closing docs and a title company that called DVC to check on the status of closing. A title company that misspelled our name, a title company that recorded an incorrect address with Orange Co, FL and a title company that overcharged us on the closing costs.

As you can see, our experience has been up and down but most of our problems or delays have been with the Title Company. Some of the problems with resale agents were within the same Agency but a different agent. As with anything you do more than once, you gain experience. Here are some of our lessons learned...
- Any offer made initially should be passed on to the seller. If the sales agent is reluctant to pass on the offer or tells you that you are not serious in buying, find another agent.
- With that said, be reasonable with your offer. You are not going to get BLT at $50/pt. Do your research and see what prices have not been passing ROFR and what prices have passed. The seller may have a price they will not go below but they should be reasonable as well. If they won't budge and you cannot go higher, move on.
- Be patient in waiting for the size, UY and price contract you want. Believe it or not, another contract will be available later and you will not have to wait very long.
- Not only is the price per point negotiable, so too are the closing costs. The closing cost price charged by the resale agency is normally not negotiable but who pays is negotiable. So too are whether the buyer reimburses the seller for current year MF's.
- Once you have agreed to the terms of the contract, make sure the resales agent and the title company have your correct email address and telephone number if you have not already done this. Request that all docs be sent by email or fax. Believe it or not, we were talking to a title company by email and they snail mailed us the closing docs to sign and sent them to an incorrect address!
- The resales agent/title company will give you an estimated timeline to close the sale. Stay in contact with both and if you have not heard from either by the time a step was to be completed, do not hesitate to contact them. However, there is no need to contact them twice a day to see if you've passed ROFR!
- When returning the contract and closing docs, fax them to the title company and request an acknowledgement of receipt. Office Depot, UPS Store and numerous other places have public fax machines if you do not have access to one. FedEx/UPS is too expensive and snail mail is just that...snail mail.
- When sending the deposit or the final payment, request an acknowledgement of receipt from the title company for this too. If possible, wire transfer your funds to the title company. It is cheaper than FedEx/UPS and is faster.
- After passing ROFR, don't be surprised if the seller takes longer than you to sign and return the final docs. On one of our contracts the seller snail mailed everything. On another, they were out of the country and unaware we had passed ROFR. However, if it has been days since you returned your closing docs, do not hesitate to contact the title company for a status update. Again, don't make this request numerous times a day!
- Once the title company has informed you that the sale is closed, don't immediately call Member Services to make a reservation. It takes 1 - 4 days to process the sale, set up the new contract and load the points. It doesn't take 2 weeks! We have called on the 3rd or 4th day after each closing and with one exception, each time the points were loaded. The one exception was during the madhouse rush after the policy changes that went to effect 3/21. The person at Mbr Svcs put us on hold, found the contract and manually loaded the points.
- If you are a current DVC member, make sure you tell the title company numerous times and make sure you title the contract the same way as your previous contract(s). You don't want different Member numbers if it's not necessary.

That's some of the things we have run into during our process. I'm sure others have had it easier and others more difficult. The timeline for our 5 purchases from offer made to points in the DVC system have taken 60, 60, 73, 29 & 29 days. That's a pretty big difference. But through it all, try to be patient, firm and most of all courteous. After you've made a reservation or two, any problems encountered during the purchase process will be a distant memory!

[GrnMtnMan]

Originally Posted by taaren

If we add on again, it will be resale, and it will be with whoever has the contract we want.

Originally Posted by saintstickets

We have purchased 5 small contracts over the past 2 1/2 years

Thanks to you both. These were very helpful posts.