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Old 09-30-2011, 01:04 PM   #76
CandyMandy
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Originally Posted by nytimez View Post
I think if the company thought there was money to be gained here without the risk of alienating black Americans, you would have seen a DVD remastered special edition "Song of the South" combo pack already.

And yes, there would be a barrage of bad press -- I can guarantee it -- along with plenty of editorials supporting it as well, I'm sure.
Hmmm...the tolerance of the African American universe re: vintage Disney use of archiac, demeaning stereotypes must be pretty darn high. That, or their radar is completely turned off. For look at what is already out there that hasn't resulted in this threatened mass alientation and press disaster:

The cigar-smoking, jive talking blackbirds from Dumbo, with the lead bird named "Jim Crow". WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?



Another jive-talking character, King Louie from the Jungle Book. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?



Sunflower the Centaur from Fantasia, where African centaurs are hoof-polishing handmaidens for prettier Aryan centaurs. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?



But let's not stop at animated films, the well is deeper than that. A cute little Mickey Mouse book from the late 40s features Mickey gettings a crate full of West African bananas, and finding an African inside instead! The savage soon is confused by Mickey's human lifestyle and commits acts of random violence. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?



But we already know the retort: the lack of outrage about any of the above proves nothing etc., etc.. The whole equation is about only one live action film from 1946.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:17 PM   #77
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But we already know the retort: the lack of outrage about any of the above proves nothing etc., etc.. The whole equation is about only one live action film from 1946.
Knowing the retort -- and rolling your eyeballs around -- doesn't discredit it, it only shows that you can't issue a mature response without resorting to antics.

It would be nice to have an adult conversation about this -- because it's a conversation -- worth having, but I see it's not one to be had with you

FWIW, there are plenty of reasons why all of those examples you offer are fundamentally flawed. Also not sure why you seem to think I'm referring to "outrage." I never used the word -- but it's consistent with your prior post, where you tried to suggest that I said there would be boycotts, riots and dips in the stock price when I clearly said no such thing.

Again, it's more evidence you're not interested in a real conversation on this, so I'll let you continue with the antics from this point forward -- as SteelersMidget said so succinctly, I'm out.
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:54 PM   #78
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Knowing the retort -- and rolling your eyeballs around -- doesn't discredit it
It does, when the anticipated response was (as expected) to deny the fact that while other party in the discussion is providing evidence for their position, the rebuttal is simply continuous "trust me" generalizations ("I know...I can guarantee...I am sure"....etc.).

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there are plenty of reasons why all of those examples you offer are fundamentally flawed
If so, was it too much effort to regail us with them? We'd loved to have heard why the others here who also cited the crow caricatures in Dumbo as screamingly inflammatory were all so, so wrong

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you tried to suggest that I said there would be boycotts, riots and dips in the stock price when I clearly said no such thing
Here is precisely what was said (direct quote) "the company will have to fight a barrage of bad press and anger a growing segment of the market they're hoping to woo." To play a semantic game around that (implying a word like "anger" doesn't include the possibility of things like boycotts or civil actions and that the phrase "barrage of bad press" doesn't include the possibility of impacting stock prices) is simply specious.

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you're not interested in a real conversation on this
The conversation was real, what was missing was your willingess to offer evidence, not just opinion.
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Old 09-30-2011, 04:32 PM   #79
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It does, when the anticipated response was (as expected) to deny the fact that while other party in the discussion is providing evidence for their position, the rebuttal is simply continuous "trust me" generalizations ("I know...I can guarantee...I am sure"....etc.).



If so, was it too much effort to regail us with them? We'd loved to have heard why the others here who also cited the crow caricatures in Dumbo as screamingly inflammatory were all so, so wrong



Here is precisely what was said (direct quote) "the company will have to fight a barrage of bad press and anger a growing segment of the market they're hoping to woo." To play a semantic game around that (implying a word like "anger" doesn't include the possibility of things like boycotts or civil actions and that the phrase "barrage of bad press" doesn't include the possibility of impacting stock prices) is simply specious.



The conversation was real, what was missing was your willingess to offer evidence, not just opinion.
Precisely the response I anticipated, but as I stated I'm not going to play along with your fabrications -- such as the bizarre insistence that I'm speaking of boycotts and stock price plunges (not to mention the riots and other things you added earlier).

I stand by everything I wrote, and nothing in any of your responses alters it.

I think you're too emotionally attached to "Song of the South" to look at the situation with any degree of objectivity.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:11 PM   #80
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as SteelersMidget said so succinctly, I'm out.
My, that was a (short) big dramatic exit. I guess next time you make another pronouncement about the curtain coming down, we'll know that's just some blustering drama...before another inevitable "encore".

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Precisely the response I anticipated.
Actually, you took the words out of my mouth. I knew when I saw a new encore posting it would be a replay of your prior M.O.. First, dismiss offhand whatever opposing opinion is presented (especially if it contains facts and details, since you don't like to go there) and secondly, replay the mantra of "my position is being altered."

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as I stated I'm not going to play along
Yes, certainly. This time you're putting your foot down ( why are we skeptical?)

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I stand by everything I wrote, and nothing in any of your responses alters it.
Then all you are standing by is your subjective, unsupported opinion.

You state every African American who is exposed to SOTS will have a problem with the way it depicts the blacks in the film. No evidence is provided, just your opinion.

You state there is little meaningful demand for a re-release of the film. Again, no evidence is provided, just your opinion. By the way, for a reality check on just how wrong you are on that particular one, go over to Amazon, put "Song Of The South" into the search field and when the page comes back (where the film gets an average 5 star rating), see how far you get through all 513 reviews.

You state Disney will enter a PR debacle if they do re-release the film. Again, no evidence is provided, just your opinion.

In contrast, I have provided factual proof that:

- Disney has never previously encountered the major PR issues you predict when it re-released the film.

- There has been no outrage from Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson or the Afrcian American Community in general about all the other "racially insensitive" elements in other currently distributed Disney product.

Bottom line: I think you're too emotionally attached to your own subjective, non-fact based world view to have a clue about the real dynamics surrounding this film.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:21 AM   #81
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I think what Disney may be worried about is the fact it is the entire money verse one part of the movie, such as the crows in Dumbo. And truefully, they are probably worrying for nothing. Also, it may all boil down to the use of the name Tar Baby, which is a put down towards African American. I think we will never know why they are not releasing it, just like unless you search you won't see the Donald Duck carton where he dreams he is German and following Hitler.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:00 AM   #82
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Splash won't be changed in any major way, there is no need.

ever seen the lines in summer for this ride?

If it ain't broke then don't fix it, why put a ton of money into changing something that already works?
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:53 AM   #83
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There's a difference between being PC and being embarrassingly out of touch, hopelessly dated and shamefully stereotyped. And personally, I can completely understand why Disney wants to keep this one locked in the vault. Yes, suh.
Yes. Nothing to add to this - and just to be clear: I just saw the film a few months ago.

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And I'll make an even larger bet that those who are most adamantly focused on censoring and burying this film...have never even seen it.

For if they had, they'd know that the most unattractive, unsympathetic characters in the entire movie happen to be white. Johnny's over-protective, smothering mother Sally and the nasty poor white sharecropper children are literal villians when contrasted to the wisdom and grace of Uncle Remus (especially as he becomes the surrogate to Johnny's absentee father).
Well, while I don't think censorship is ever something good, I still think that the copyright owner has every right to decide whether they want to make their material available or not. One day the film will be in the public domain anyway.

But I must say that I have seen the film recently and I understand Disney's decision.

And actually just what you said about the unsympathetic characters being white while Uncle Remus being wise and gracious is part of the problem I have with this film. I find it fake and therefore a way of stereotyping as well. Kind of romanticising those who are less fortunate in life in order to make their fate appear better than it really is.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:16 AM   #84
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Don't hate me. But I would be ok with this. I think it would fit nicely. Especially in regards to how Disney feels about Song of the South. Disney's always looking to make things new and fresh. Go PATF Mountain!
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:55 AM   #85
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Song of the South is a MOVIE--it's not a docudrama or a history lesson. It's a film depicting American folklore.

As Leonard Maltin so well put it:

"As for the original, Song of the South can speak for itself. Accusations of Uncle Tomisms and quibbles over it's syrupy storyline are ultimately defeated by the films sheer entertainment value. It has some of the most delightful moments Disney ever captured on film--and that's what really counts."

So no reason WHATSOEVER to change the ride.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:35 PM   #86
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I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago. I didn't think it was racist in any manner. It's less racist (or antisemitic or whatever) the the majority of other old Disney films.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:45 PM   #87
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[QUOTE=SheaBear;42765966]First, I want to say sorry if this has been brought up already. Haven't been on the boards in a couple of days.

I recieved a text last week from a friend who is a CM at Magic Kingdom. She told me that Splash Mountain is going to change from the Br'er Rabbit theme to The Princess and the Frog. No date was given, but said it will change sometime soon.

I for one, don't know how I feel about that kind of change. I feel as though Splash Mountain is one of those staples of Magic Kingdom.





Hope SM stays as it is to many changes now:confused..leave old ones the same and come up with new ideas as well...

Last edited by canopynut66; 10-12-2011 at 08:48 PM. Reason: change
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:41 PM   #88
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[QUOTE=canopynut66;42928386]
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First, I want to say sorry if this has been brought up already. Haven't been on the boards in a couple of days.

I recieved a text last week from a friend who is a CM at Magic Kingdom. She told me that Splash Mountain is going to change from the Br'er Rabbit theme to The Princess and the Frog. No date was given, but said it will change sometime soon.

I for one, don't know how I feel about that kind of change. I feel as though Splash Mountain is one of those staples of Magic Kingdom.


Don't worry. The chance of that happening is about 0.00001%


Hope SM stays as it is to many changes now:confused..leave old ones the same and come up with new ideas as well...
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:40 PM   #89
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Personally, I think the Disney Company's treatment of Song Of The South has made it into the issue that it is today. Its not like it is the most racist and historically incorrect film they ever made and by not releasing it on dvd they have made it into more of an issue than it need ever be. And yes, those crows in Dumbo are just as bad, but my guess is because it isn't live-action it doesn't "count" as heavily as the happy wise ex-slave stuck on the plantation stereotype in SotS. When we hide these things away, we give them more power than they deserve and we prevent our society from moving past these issues.

TBH, I think Pocahontas is probably the most racist film Disney has ever made. It doesn't have the excuse of "it was the time" to fall back on.

But back to the topic at hand, I hope they don't change Splash anytime soon. =)
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:12 PM   #90
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I hope that's not true. I love PATF, but Splash Mountain is amazing the way it is. Not many guests actually know what Song of the South is, true, but the theme of the ride is great (not the racism of the movie, but just the story presented in the attraction). Easy to understand, fun, and I've only met one person who didn't like Splash Mountain. I don't even know how it's possible not to like it...

It's the best log flume ride in the country, so I don't see why they would need to change it.
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