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Old 04-30-2011, 10:51 PM   #1
Cheshire Figment
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Recent Disneyland GAC Changes

The following was posted in another Discussion Board by an individual whose name on DisBoards is teddibarra who has given me permission to post it here.

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Changes in GAC/SAP policy (guest assistance services)

Passing along information from this week's visit.

Checked in Monday night @ DL City hall and was advised that as of Wed. 4-27-11 their GAC/SAP policy would be changing. CM was vague and left it at that and issued a GAC valid only for Mon&Tues and advised us to check back in on Wednesday when new policy changes went into effect.

Did as advised and on Wednesday City hall CM said that really not much had changed, but that they were intending to prevent "abuse" of the GAC/SAP. She took the time to highlight the part of the card which states "this is not intended to provide immediate access" and stated that verbally (but very nicely). She also told me that the card was for the person it was ISSUED for and that would only be applicable if that person was going on a ride/attraction/etc.

I will relay what I experienced:

Nothing in DCA, because I was only in DL on Wed/Thurs.

* Was asked to show GAC each time and CMs took more time to ask questions.
Questions asked were consistently these:
1) Can I see your card (and they took time to see what was stamped on it, for us it was use of stroller as a wheelchair)
2) CM asked "Who is Chloe (the name who the GAC is issued to)" (and even though she is 6, they did ask HER directly her name/if she was Chloe)
3) Is "person's who's name is on the card" going to be riding ON this attraction?
4) How many are in your party?

Now, none of these things are actually policy changes as far I understand. Use of GAC has always been that the person it's issued to and their party up to 6 INCLUDING the person on the GAC can board an attraction at a time via the alternate entrance. BUT it I have never been so very consistently questioned, WHO is the person the card is FOR and clarifying each time that THAT person would be going on the attraction. In other words, I think the CMs are really supposed to pay attention and consistently enforce the rules!

More conversation with a Fantasyland CM explained an actual CHANGE:
Previously, only up to six ppl could ride w/the GAC user. The number would of course have been stamped on the card itself, but that number would never be more than 6. And, two years ago, we did specifically ASK that it be more (my grandparents took 5 grandkids, including 3 4year olds and so there was 7 in their direct party, that the two adults had to be responsible for) and they would not. Explained to me was that the rule of 6 is no longer in force when using a GAC, that the number could be higher but you would need to address that at City Hall (etc) at the time the pass was issued. The CM said party size would still be limited to "immediate party", and that she said you'd need to address the issue at City Hall to clarify what that would mean. But she said that they were not now held to a strict number for GACs.

They will make effort to strictly enforce the rule of 6 when guests use the "handicap/wheelchair" access and do NOT have a GAC. As most of you probably know any guest who has a "visible" walking device/accommodation (examples: wheelchair, electric scooter, cane, leg cast/braces, vision cane (not sure what the canes that the blind use are called??? sorry) can use the handicap entrance as needed, as always, but they will be enforcing the rule of six.

Also, at Fastpass entrances, a couple of times, I was advised that in lieu of waiting in the wheelchair access, IF the person using the GAC was able to navigate the Fastpass queue, they would encourage us to do so. If not, we could wait for the standard wheelchair queue (FOR INSTANCE: we were told this at Big Thunder RR and Space Mtn). I am not sure if that is different? I am not sure if the encouraging the use of the FP line is a change or not... our needs continue to evolve as my child ages so this was the first time for some of these access issues.

Overall, I see this as a positive change. We have had issues where before, we have 7 in our party, and it required splitting of our immediate group, etc. I think the idea is to be more strict and consistent in general about the standard "wheelchair/disabled" access lines. I think the idea is also to allow perhaps more flexibility to those who take the time/have the need to talk directly to City Hall/Guest Services and explain what their needs are (which of course is not the same for everyone!). Hope this helps.
I did correct a few minor typos, otherwise it is as posted.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:59 PM   #2
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I had heard there were changes. I also am being asked to explain in more detail why I need a GAC (since I have a wheelchair as well) and they are much more clear about what they do.

The stamps are new too (different design, not newly created stamps) - they explain in words what the stamp does in addition to the little symbol. This may also help some guests who get a GAC expecting them to all work the same. I know that a blind friend of mine was surprised to find out mine and hers (which allowed her to have front row access in shows) worked differently. Hopefully this will help people better understand what their GAC is for.

I don't really like the "difference" for party size for a guest in a wheelchair and a guest with a GAC. I have traveled with larger parties before and ALL were "immediate party" - a large group of siblings. Why should a party requiring a GAC be different than a party with a wheelchair just out of hand? Sounds like that will just lead to confusion. I will be interested to see how that one pans out.
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Old 05-01-2011, 05:41 AM   #3
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I think it is great that the CMs are being more engaged and taking more time to directly engage the individual with the disability, with the rise of "invisible" (non obvious) disabilities since they can do an even better job of providing as equivalent accommodations with this extra understanding.
Those of you who post and read this section regularly know that I have always said the arbitrary group of 6 number, would probably at times limit of make impossible equal access in a few rare circumstances so it is great that it is being addressed. I think having it addressed at guest services is a good way to make sure "piling on" does not happen.
I think verbiage on the GACs is good also since it allows families to understand the accommodation that the stamp indicates and requires less "memorization" for the CMs especially as the methodologies of accommodation broaden and are moreindividualized in the future.
As always thanks to the disability services management teams at DL and WDW for all you do to make the parks, transportation and lodging accessible.
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:31 AM   #4
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Any attention that the park mgt gives to the GAC process, especially at DL, will be good, in my opinion. We have found that disabled access to be excellent at DL (like WDW), but with more variability from the CM's. It just has seemed that many CM's didn't have as much training. This new effort sounds like they are addressing this.

For us, it shouldn't change much. We have two boys with cerebral palsy, and use wheelchairs at the park. When my brother-in-law comes to help us with the boys, our party size would be 7. While the new GAC process may help us with that (we usually don't get at GAC becasue we're in chairs), many of the rides in DL won't let more than one chair on at a time (for evacuation reasons).
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Old 05-01-2011, 02:50 PM   #5
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@ Orthodad
I would suggest checking in when you have your party of 7 at Guest Relations, perhaps in this instance they will issue you a GAC for the purpose of keeping your party together? Obviously, as you have two chairs in your party, you are right that alot of the attractions in DL can't have two in the loading area at the same time.

And yes, the stamp issued on Wednesday was new. It was achieving the same goal but whereas the previous stamp was red and smaller, this was one bigger and had the words "guests can use their stroller as a wheelchair" underneath. I would presume other stamps would be similar.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:41 PM   #6
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Thanks for the update - it seems like it’s not so much a change in the way things are done, but more of a clarification of what is supposed to happen.

The ‘weak link’ always seems to me to be the CMs at attractions.

I think the idea of the new stamps and more text is good. As was posted by someone else, it may make it more obvious to the person using the GAC what it means.

The limit of 6 at WDW was always a flexible limit - 6 was the usual number, but the CMs could and did make exceptions at times. We did have 7 and 8 at times, but we did have to rationalize why we needed that number to the CM issuing the card. There is actually something written into the new ADA revisions that addressed the need to sometimes have more than whatever arbitrary number was assigned, so I think this is an attempt to address that (I don’t have time right now to look up the link).

I do think it is good that 6 will remain the number for guests using the wheelchair entrances without a GAC. If they have need for more people with them, it should be an exception that is discussed and approved, not a group of 15 all of sudden entering. The reason I say that is that at times a large group has completely filled the handicapped area (at least at WDW) preventing other guests who need that area from access. If that is going to happen, at least they should have gone thru Guest Relations.

The biggest problem I can see with the number though is that 6 was set for a reason and (at least at WDW) sometimes it is necessary to divide into smaller groups so they don’t expect they can always all fit in one ride car.
For example, at Toy Story Mania, the ‘ride car pod’ with the wheelchair accessible ride car can only hold a total of 6 people. If the wheelchair car is not needed and the person can transfer, they can send a non-accessible ride pod over, which can hold a total of 8, but if it is a party of larger than 8, it won’t work.
I have seen people argue with a become verbally abusive to CMs at time when the CM tries to explain they need to split up. One time was at Small World where the wheelchair boat holds a total of 7 people (6 in seats and 1 wheelchair). A group was upset they could not all stay together and said some could sit on the floor of the ramp so they could all stay together!
If they are going to give a GAC for a larger group, I hope they explain really well to the guests that they will sometimes need to split into smaller groups.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:04 PM   #7
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I just got back from DL using an GAC. My first day was April 16 then we went on a 10 day Disney cruise and back at DL April 27 through 30.

I had a previous GAC from Christmas time that I asked to be renewed for this trip. The CM asked if any of my needs had changed and stated that he would give me a card good for the first day and to come back and get it renewed after the cruise. After the cruise they renewed it with the new stamps as stated above.

One thing that was a little unclear was that he stamped the issue date but hand wrote the expiration date. I didn't think anything of it, but one attraction CM questioned it (nicely). I just said that the Town Hall CM wrote that on there and she replied that there were changes in the process and they were being asked to be more observant of abuse.

Only time that we experienced a negative CM was on Indy, I showed it to a CM and he was fairly rude. I just wrote it off as him having a bad day.
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosine4 View Post
Only time that we experienced a negative CM was on Indy, I showed it to a CM and he was fairly rude. I just wrote it off as him having a bad day.
Every time I use a GAC on Indy I have been treated rudely! They act as if we are trying to get one over on them or something. really waiting in line rather than taking the elevators is faster so I dont understand the problem with the CM's on this ride.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:52 AM   #9
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When I was at DL in April over the busy holiday week there was a HUGE family in the disability section for WoC. There was one child with a mental disability and this large party who took ALL the seating- three rows. Thank goodness I had my own w/c. I think with large parties travelling together they do need to be clear on how many can access special seating, esp. as they had to turn away a woman with a walker who needed to sit and who had a fastpass for WoC. The next night when I went with a group of friends and we had priority seating by dining at Ariel's with the WoC package, the CM's were clear that the seating was for the person with a disability and the rest of the party would have to stand, so perhaps in the first instance it was just a CM not doing their job and allowing 15+ people to be seated with one disabled child.---Kathy
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dclfun View Post
When I was at DL in April over the busy holiday week there was a HUGE family in the disability section for WoC. There was one child with a mental disability and this large party who took ALL the seating- three rows. Thank goodness I had my own w/c. I think with large parties travelling together they do need to be clear on how many can access special seating, esp. as they had to turn away a woman with a walker who needed to sit and who had a fastpass for WoC. The next night when I went with a group of friends and we had priority seating by dining at Ariel's with the WoC package, the CM's were clear that the seating was for the person with a disability and the rest of the party would have to stand, so perhaps in the first instance it was just a CM not doing their job and allowing 15+ people to be seated with one disabled child.---Kathy

The CMs at Fantasmic are much more careful about how many people they allow in the section and they are very strict about not letting anyone except people with the wheelchair or a disability sit along the front.

I think they are still getting the hang of it at WoC (the show is only a year old and almost ALL their CMs are the newbies), so hopefully things will keep improving.

Honestly, the poor control of the wheelchair seating is why I have only seen it once, and the parade viewing areas for Disneyland are even worse! I stop to mention it at Guest Services whenever I have a problem, since this is the only way things can improve.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:14 PM   #11
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I'd like to ask for your opinions (folks in the chairs)

I totally see how 1 disabled person with a group of 15 others, disallows access to a lot of other disabled folks. I do however see another side of the coin.

Specifically, the WRITTEN policy at Knotts Berry Farm that ONLY the one disabled person and ONE other person can wait in the access line/waiting area. I have opted not to go there, especially since the times I wanted to go, it was going to be just me(the mom) and my kids (at the time 9 yr old boy and just turning 5 yr old twins, one of which is disabled by CP). You see the problem there quickly. One of me, one disabled little who needs my assistance and the other two littles who can't wait by themselves! Ok, so this IMO very restrictive "disabled plus one" policy makes me think about the shows.

Even if the disabled person is an adult- should they be expected to be separated from the rest of their party? Imagine that being the case for every show/attraction on a vacation. Fireworks (I honestly don't think there is a wc access area but if there) alone. Parade viewing. Alone. Fantasmic. Alone. WOC. Alone. It gets to the point of being unfair and almost heartless if a policy were strictly applied that way. Then of course comes in the issue of how many do you let go with the person with a wc/cane/etc? Every number works against somebody.

But my point is, I do not feel it is right to force ONLY the person in a wc to be the ONLY person in the viewing/designated area. And the "right" answer to all this is pretty much impossible.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:58 AM   #12
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I think a reasonable number is what Disney has publicized on their little bit of written information about GACs - 5 plus the perfunctory a disability for a total of 6 people. In many cases, more than that will not fit in the area and, for rides/attractions, I don't know of many where 15 will be in the same ride car anyway.

A limit of one person to accompany one person with a disability is discriminatory and unfair.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:43 AM   #13
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I think it is great that a larger party can stay together with a GAC. It makes the experience better for everybody. However, I think the problem that some people have is at the shows where non-handicapped folks take up the benches and space that should be reserved for the handicapped. I have no issue if everyone wants to ride together on BTMRR, they should be able to. But don't have your able-bodied folks sitting on the benches in the WOC handicapped section. That is rude.

There is such a wide variation in how this is handled. I have been to WOC with a GAC (knee surgery) and sometimes the CMs were great in how they handled the seating issue. They made sure only the person with the pass got a seat. And then based on who came first into the section, they allowed others without a handicap sit down if there was room. Other times, it was a free for all. I think that is the problem a previous poster was talking about. I don't have a problem at all with the entire party being in the handicapped section, but please don't turn away folks who have a valid need.

And I just have to say most of the CMs are just great about the GAC. I just wish more guests were more appreciative of the extra work the CMs do to make our experience magical!
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:15 AM   #14
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I was wondering about this because we just got back from a trip. My mother has MS and travels in a scooter while at Disneyland. My father suffered nerve damage due to a procedure several months ago, can walk but stairs are an issue (Indiana Jones & Tower of Terror!), walks with a cane for the moment so wanted to have a GAC just in case he was asked - my mother has never been asked for one, it's apparent she has a severe mobility issue without the scooter, but she doesn't ride all the rides so my dad wanted to have one just in case.

Anyway, at City Hall he was told that they no longer were issuing GACs and because of the cane we would not be questioned. It all seems very odd.

While at a ride, a woman in a scooter arrived with her party, she presented some Blue and White card and the castmember though friendly and polite did give her a hard time because her party consisted of 7. She let them ride but I did hear her say to visit City Hall for special arrangements since her party was larger than 5. I thought this was odd because my party at the time was 8, including my mother and father so not sure if there was an exception.

Anyway, I realize not all disabilities are visible, but you sure do see a lot of questionable people riding in chairs and scooters, sometimes it's too obvious that something is a little suspicious and phony baloney .
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim_Grinning_Girl View Post
I was wondering about this because we just got back from a trip. My mother has MS and travels in a scooter while at Disneyland. My father suffered nerve damage due to a procedure several months ago, can walk but stairs are an issue (Indiana Jones & Tower of Terror!), walks with a cane for the moment so wanted to have a GAC just in case he was asked - my mother has never been asked for one, it's apparent she has a severe mobility issue without the scooter, but she doesn't ride all the rides so my dad wanted to have one just in case.

Anyway, at City Hall he was told that they no longer were issuing GACs and because of the cane we would not be questioned. It all seems very odd.

While at a ride, a woman in a scooter arrived with her party, she presented some Blue and White card and the castmember though friendly and polite did give her a hard time because her party consisted of 7. She let them ride but I did hear her say to visit City Hall for special arrangements since her party was larger than 5. I thought this was odd because my party at the time was 8, including my mother and father so not sure if there was an exception.

Anyway, I realize not all disabilities are visible, but you sure do see a lot of questionable people riding in chairs and scooters, sometimes it's too obvious that something is a little suspicious and phony baloney .
Regarding not issuing a GAC with a cane, this would be in accord with the ADA, which says that proof can't be required for visible needs ( not exactly what it says, but sort of paraphrased). Because he has a cane, he has a visible need to use the accessible line if the regular line or boarding area is not accessible. At WDW , they made a separate map for guests with disabilities, which lists the 'mobility entrances' for guests with mobility proble
The map lists them that way and says that is the entrance for guests with mobility aids. So, guests are expected to use them without a GAC, as long as the need is obvious. I don't know if there is a similar map for DL, but my guess is that most of this is changes to better comply with the ADA. And the reason it is happening now, is that updated rules/guidelines for the ADA went into effect in March 2011.

The question about the size of the party - even though your total number was 8, you had 2 people with visible disabilities, so your group would be looked at as 2 smaller groups with visible disabilities. Each 'group' would have been less than 5.

When a card is issued, whatever type, the number of people is (has been) always written on the card. My best guess is that the card the other guests showed the CM had 5 written as the number in their party. If they were trying to use it with more than 5, that would not be allowed. So that would be why the CM told them they need to go back to Guest Relations to get an exemption.

And, regarding guests who don't 'look like they need an ECV,' invisible disabilities are invisible, so trying to figure out who 'really needs one' is impossible. Unless DL has some VERY big differences with using an ECV compared to WDW, the 'advantages' of using an ECV are far outweighed by the inconveniences of using one. So, I dont think very many people would rent one if they don't actually need it.
Your parents needs are obvious to you because you know them. They may do other things that make other guests think they are 'phony baloney' ( to some guests, just sitting on a chair or just being able to transfer to a rude car are 'proof' that the person has no disability).
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